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So Cadillac is Mad at Us

17K views 124 replies 59 participants last post by  dslay04 
#1 · (Edited)


Officially <em>"a future Cadillac model derived from Chevy Cruze is completely false,"</em> those are words David Caldwell, Cadillac's Communications Manager, sent our way last night.

Fine.

Although interestingly, the rebuttals Cadillac sent to us, <em><a href="http://jalopnik.com/cadillac-is-planning-a-hatchback-based-on-the-chevy-cru-1773391429" target="_blank">Jalopnik</a></em> and <em><a href="http://www.autoblog.com/2016/04/27/cadillac-small-sedan-chevy-cruze-delta-platform/" target="_blank">Autoblog</a>, </em>all use the same language--*<em>there will not be a Cadillac derived from the Chevy Cruze--</em>but no one said there won't be a Cadillac based on the platform architecture D2XX.

As you may know, the Chevrolet Cruze is but one derivative of D2XX, other notables include the Opel Astra K hatchback and the Buick Envision SUV.



<h3><strong>So, D2XX Sedan?</strong></h3>
We know how difficult, short of impossible it is to <a href="http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/detroit-auto-show/news/a27870/cadillac-smaller-rwd-sedan/" target="_blank">shorten Alpha</a> anymore than already, and still function as a viable sedan- see the rear seats of both ATS and Camaro for further details.

We also know that small rear-wheel-drive projects from any of the Generals arsenal of brands is met with extreme prejudice on the basis of cost and consumer interest. Small rear-wheel-drive cars are an enthusiasts wet dream, but year over year their market performance continues to decline. The Code 130R program was stillborn, as Opel's GT Concept looks to be.

And if you wander into the wild, wild marketplace hope for small rear-wheel-drive dwindles even further. Audi's A3 is front-wheel-drive with AWD available and Mercedes CLA follows the same playbook.

The lone holdout is BMW's 2 Series Coupe, which can offer rear-wheel-drive because BMW doesn't have to worry about packaging it as a sedan. The 2 Series Coupe is <a href="http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/01/07/rumor-major-changes-coming-to-2-series-lineup-front-wheel-drive-and-new-bodystyles/" target="_blank">expected to be joined by an arsenal of 2 Series derivatives</a> based on the <a href="http://BMW_UKL_platform" target="_blank">UKL front wheel drive architecture</a>- currently under the Minis.

Fittingly, news broke this morning that <a href="http://www.carscoops.com/2016/04/acura-is-no1-luxury-brand-among.html" target="_blank">Acura is the most popular brand with millennial buyers</a>, specifically the Acura ILX has captured the most buyers in the 18-34 demo over the last four years. Acura is doing this with FWD based Honda platforms, obviously with enough differentiation to interest the fickle demographic.

Uwe Ellinghaus said early this month that Cadillac wants to be the <a href="http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/04/05/can-cadillac-be-millennials-car-choice.html" target="_blank">'hottest car brand'</a>*to millennials, Ellinghaus continued "Millennials are far more interested in fashion, design, architecture and also lifestyle than previous generations of luxury car buyers” the actual nuts and bolts of this car thing are becoming increasingly irrelevant to buyers in the segment.

If Cadillac wants to chase the millennial demographic they need to produce product for them, and sorry, no ultra-lux flagship is attainable for millennials, Cadillac needs the demo in their cars not just aspiring to their cars. But I digress.



<h3><strong>How About a D2XX CUV?</strong></h3>
The hatch designation in the program code may not necessarily indicate a true hatchback. because of the increasingly blurred line between hatchbacks and compact CUVs it's possible the Caddy based on D2XX is actually the rumored XT1 small crossover. For context, the Mercedes small crossover, the GLA, is technically <a href="http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/10/narcissism-small-differences-part-2/" target="_blank">considered a hatchback in certain configurations</a>.

The Buick Envision is already underpinned by D2XX, and just yesterday the new D2XX Equinox was spied.

It would square with Caddy's game of semantics, no Cadillac based on the Cruze, of course not-- that would draw unfavorable comparisons-- but a high rider based on D2XX is relatively insulated against outrage, and would allow Cadillac to keep it's promise of only rear-wheel-drive sedans.



<h3><strong>Now For Something a Little Crazy...</strong></h3>
Could Cadillac be exploring a derivative of the new Volt?

The Volt not only rides on D2XX but is also technically a liftback or hatchback. Although considering the debacle that was the ELR I would imagine Caddy is extremely weary of this avenue.

So I concede, there will be no Cadillac derived from the Chevrolet Cruze, but I strongly believe-- and so do my sources- that a Cadillac is coming that will ride on the Delta platform architecture...
 
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#3 ·
Yea it will be. The original article even stated that the width and maybe length will be different from the Cruze but that didn't stop most folks around here to jump to conclusions.
 
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#6 ·
XT5 is built on the new C1UX platform that underpins the new GMC Acadia and the upcoming Chevrolet "Blazer."

The scheduled C1YX version of this platform has a longer wheelbase, is a little wider, and will replace the Lambda platform. This will underpin Cadillac's 7-seat CUV, the XT7.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Platforms aren't chassis in the old school sense. They are families of subsystems that can be used together, more and more in pretty flexible ways. I could imagine a Cadillac compact with standard AWD and an independent rear suspension being quite differentiated from a Cruze. It really depends on how far they are willing to extend the platform for Cadillac use.

In terms of RWD vs. FWD: drive wheels aren't brand differentiators. If a Cadillac should be a light, sharp driving car with responsive engines and a high performance variant, a proper FWD/AWD compact platform should be able to deliver that. It really comes down to the execution. If the car doesn't drive better than a cheaper VW GTI, Cadillac has failed.
 
#18 ·
So you're not counting the "Youse guys just wait!..." 5/10-year-plan speeches, as if they were product?
 
#23 ·
I won't publish word for word.

But I'll give you the essence.

Cadillac is not building a model derived from the Chevrolet Cruze.

And they are mad that the PR department was tied up yesterday responding to emails wondering when the Caddy Cruze is coming.

There was no mention of D2XX. Just not derived from Cruze.

Personally I feel the use of derived from Cruze to be the harbinger. D2XX has a wide operating window...
 
#19 · (Edited)
After reading all of the responses last night, and now this, I'm thinking a GLE/CLC class coupe. Although, a GLE class coupe would be too long, right?

Edit: I forgot to add I like the XT1 chop shown. Any chance that it could be refined some more?
 
#22 ·
Cruze is on D2XX, so I'm not sure what the commotion is about.
Cadillac executives like to play word games. "Derived from Cruze" could mean to them a simple rebadge. Cadillac hasn't been doing that for years. Even Escalade, as rebadgey as it may seem, isn't exactly a simple rebadge.

But a Cadillac on a modified and upgraded D2XX wouldn't technically be "Derived from Cruze."


That being said, I don't understand the need to have a sub-compact luxury car at this point in time. The only reason to do this would be to increase volume.
Want to concentrate on Millennials? That's fine. But let's narrow that focus a bit, shall we? Most Millennials won't be able to afford a Cadillac. Period. End of Story. The demographic focus should be Millennials with higher education degrees in urban areas and with incomes >$100,000. Now those Millennials are generally more active and fashion conscious and apt to follow current trends.

So, Cadillac should be creating their entry-level portfolio to fit those trends. Period. In other words, if you are going to produce a sedan, then don't make it a traditional sedan. Make it incredibly stylish and fashion forward. Or make it a 4-door coupe. A 4-door ELR-ish looking car would have been nice. Also, a modestly elevated 4-door hatch/CUV, à la GLA would be good.


I'm willing to bet Cadillac will create a basic sub-compact sedan with a lower entry price. And then when it doesn't sell, they'll kill it in about 3-4 years.

Just amazed how Complex Cadillac is making this endeavor.
 
#29 · (Edited)
We know how difficult, short of impossible it is to shorten Alpha anymore than already, and still function as a viable sedan- see the rear seats of both ATS and Camaro for further details.
However the rear quarter, aft of the rear axle, could be "lopped off" a few inches with out changing wheelbase/engine compartment. A more upright design to the rear quarter could be employed to make getting in and out of the rear seat easier.

Or maybe not.
 
#31 ·
The question should be - is D2xx good enough to put a Cadillac on?

Where the base platform is good enough, there's no issue using the same platform for mainstream/premium/luxury models - for example, Range Rover put the successful Evoque on what is essentially the old Ford Mondeo platform and Bentley have now put two of their models on VW platforms, Phaeton and Touareg.

It's inevitable that petrolheads, globally, will say it's just a mundane XYZ underneath but a good platform is no hindrance to a good premium/luxury model as customers don't see it that way.
 
#38 · (Edited)
This site is just too funny. Now other auto enthusiast websites will have in the news section "Cadillac is Mad at GMI - GM Inside News". Just too funny.

If the article from 'GMI' stated that Cadillac is building a smaller car than ATS on D2XX platform without mentioning the Chevy Cruze, it would not be much controversy and people won't get so worked up.

Last time I checked, it is a GM platform that is used to built Cadillac, Chevy, Buick and GMC on and not specific to any one model.
 
#42 · (Edited)
This site is just too funny. Now other auto enthusiast websites will have in the news section "Cadillac is Mad at GMI - GM Inside News". Just too funny.
Michael's article got on TTAC, grand central for all things GM Hate.
Mark Stevenson's running the show there... remember him? I know you're lurkin', Mark... :001_tt2:
VW has been their whippin' boy much more lately.
 
#52 ·
Exactly, funny how many so-called GM enthusiasts and writers, always seem to give Cadillac backhanded slights; By claiming most Caddys are just basically Chevys underneath, even when they know better! Yet, scream bloody murder, when some publication or other brand's fans claim the same.
 
#57 ·
I am figuring to buy a premium brand subcompact crossover in about five years. It would be great if it could be made by Cadillac.
Why? I live in a city where I spend most of my time stuck in slow moving traffic or at red lights. When things are actually open, there is a predatory practice on ticketing speeders, let alone anyone having real fun with their car. So butt kicking power is pointless. Also, I want something that is easy to park and great on gas. BUT, I do not want some cheap car. I want the brand, styling, interior and features that come with a premium car. It looks like the German premium brands are starting to address this growing point of view, which will only continue to grow with more congestion, and as someone said before, millenials not being much interested in tire-smoking performance. Cadillac will have to go down both one and two sizes from the XT5 if it wants to compete in the twenties.
 
#68 · (Edited)
#72 · (Edited)
Please provide links for all of your "facts" about Lincolns losses.

Please provide links for all of your "facts" about Cadillacs profits.

Thanks

Don't worry, I won't be holding my breath.

I am sure glad that the ELR is averaging close to 5K a month, btw. Here I thought it was a dismal sales flop. Boy, you sure showed me.

Oh, I also forgot................. could you please explain to us lesser folks how plant utilization has nothing to do with fixed costs. It should be a fascinating read. As a matter of fact, you should explain it to GM also.
 
#73 ·
Why the entry level, FWD, Cadillac (CT1/CT2) is a bad idea.

MB initiated this entry level, fwd, “cheap” (base $29,990 in 2014) CLA because it knew it had the “Badge snobbery” to produce a cheap, entry level vehicle, on par with Camry, Altima, and Civic, in price, and, that people would buy it. Hell, everyone wants a MB, and now, people on welfare, can afford one to.

BMW, and Audi, had no choice , they had to stay competitive, so they followed suit. If your brand has built a reputation, and it sells, then you can get away with it. Remember these buyers don’t really care about the cars, and what they DON’T have, after all they are buying a “Benz”, a BMW, an Audi. They have arrived.

Keep in mind that just about everything on these cars is optional. That MB CLA base price is now at $32,500+. It has grown $2500 in 2 years. Leather seats, heated seats, power seats, 18″ wheels, and most of the electronic equipment is optional. When you finish building one you want, your looking at close to $50,000. The last time I was at a MB dealer, the cheapest one I could find was $45,000+, and they sell. MB has pulled this off for one reason, the 3 pointed star, the badge snobbery, the image.

It is for these same reasons this car would fail for Cadillac. Look at the ATS sales, a disaster, The ATS is the best chassis in the segment , the design is good, the car looks great, they offer a Coupe, and a Sedan, and both in a “V” model, and yet they don’t sell,…..why!

Cadillac has no brand snobbery. People, the buyers, would simply rather have a BMW 3 Series, or a C Class……brand image sells. This fwd Cadillac CT2, are you going to price it at $30,000 and make everything optional. Will it steal sales from the competition in the segment, or the upcoming CT3? Will you have a CT2 that is priced higher than a base CT3? Who will buy it? What customer base are you shooting for? The Camry buyer? The Acura entry level buyer? Millennials are not going to buy this car. They would rather have a BMW 1, or 2 Series.

MB gets away with it for the very reasons Cadillac will not be able to. The only way a Cadillac CT2 could outsell a CLA, or even sell for that matter, would be for it to be A BETTER CAR! It should be RWD/AWD, offer more standard equipment , and features, more interior/ exterior color choices and packages, a better warranty, offer all maintanence service for 4 yrs./60,000 miles free (MB charges for this), and, a free loaner car. Some suggestions, but it will still be a tough sell. Cadillac does not need another vehicle that doesn’t sell.

There are other segments where Cadillac needs a vehicle, a large Coupe, Sport Wagon, more SUV/CUV’s, and, a convertible, and definitely a “flagship” vehicle.Even with the CT6, there is not a competitive vehicle from Cadillac for the S Class, BMW 7 Series, A8, hell, even Hyundai is coming with the new Genesis, and Lexus with a new LS. This void at Cadillac has got to be filled!
 
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