Only@GMI: Cadillac Zeta Car Rumored Dead

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Meanwhile, Infiniti and Lexus are continuing to build RWD cars.

I was at Road America this past weekend and saw a few Infiniti G's and a Lexus IS. GM needs some representation at the track, other than the Corvette, and the odd modified Camaro and the 1 GTO.

Perhaps GM needs to focus more on some light RWD cars. Could a Zeta Buick and/or Zeta Caddy be made light enough with good dynamics for the weekend racer to slap some aftermarket tires and brakes on 'er to have some fun at the track? Maybe the Kappa or NG Kappa is this platform.

All I know is I would like to see more GM cars represented at the track, able to go head to head with BMW and Mazda. BMW and Mazda are represented at the track like a swarm of gnats around your head on a warm summer evening.

[Docray1]

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

Motortrend reported that that the large Caddy was almost completed that the only thing GM had to do was to rework the headlights because they were too busy. I doubt they would cut it after doing all the work already.

MT's report WAS indeed correct from the DESIGN perspective. Aside from reworking the headlight/grille area, the design was nearly done. However, the major ENGINEERING and testing of the car was just about to begin as was ordering the tooling to produce it. That is far and away the most expensive part of the process of bringing a new vehicle to production. The decision was made because it was felt that spending scarce capital on a large sedan at this time was a mistake. Add in the fact that some felt the car's design was weak and that it would not offer a V8, and you basically have a bleeding company deciding to use that money elsewhere. Keeping the DTS around a while longer until some money is freed up was the easy choice for the "bean counters".

[CadiEldo67]

For Buick, this isn't the end, a Zeta Buick would overlap with a Zeta Pontiac too much, considering the showroom situation. But for Cadillac, its absolutely flabbergasting. For Cadillac, the flagship of GM, the Standard of the World to not have a car any larger than the CTS, it just seems like GM is out of touch with that customer base. If you are paying $75K for a car, then I'm not sure that the price of gas is really an issue. Or did GM accept that it couldn't build a vehicle worthy of that price tag? If this is the case for Cadillac, then I want to see some smaller models being offered, STAT!

ATS - 1-Series Sized w/coupe and convertible trims -alpha
BTS - 3-Series Sized w/ coupe and convertible trims -alpha lwb
CTS - 5-Series Sized w/ coupe and convertible trims -sigma/zeta
XLR - Mid-Engined Y-Body car, stops all talk of mid-engined Corvette
And there you have it, fuel efficiency for Cadillac, but keep Sigma if possible.

[windvale]

The resources for design and development are dwindling, and cash burn throught rate each month is at $1.2 billion and climbing - so I'm not surprised.

This is the best evidence yet that GM cannot sustain seven brands in NA. GM should concentrate all development resources on one single entry in each market segment:
- Aveo
- Cruze
- Malibu
- Camaro
- Impala (RWD)
- Corvette
- CTS
- DTS

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by Lichtronamo

I thought the Lacrosse/Invicta was supposed to go to Kansas along with the now on-hold Aura/Insignia. (Seeing a pattern here...)

Ooops. You're right. m'bad.

[JonathanRohr]

Call me crazy but didnt it just say that they cancelled the platform, not the idea of a flagship? I know everyone seems to think RWD is the cats meow, but in any regular driving situations such as snow or rain, FWD is far superior. It will also allow for a lighter weight, more interior and trunk room, and better fuel economy.

So yeah, if someone wanted to buy a 'Cadillac Flagship' and go drifting, they'll be S.O.L. with the FWD.. but in every other real-world aspect the FWD car could be superior.

[johnny smallblock]

Just curious:
How did "GM is rethinking building the STS/DTS replacement on Zeta" become "GM will have no flagship, no car bigger then the CTS, and Buick won't get a Lucerne replacement"?

There is a group on here, let's call them "frightened reactionary morons", who just can't wait to take every little half rumor and blow it up to the biggest disaster since the Titanic. Calm the F down.

[K Dawg ONE]

Originally Posted by johnny smallblock

There is a group on here, let's call them "frightened reactionary morons", who just can't wait to take every little half rumor and blow it up to the biggest disaster since the Titanic. Calm the F down.

Look at my sig. I edited it to give you the daily 'Needs to switch to Decaf Award'.....

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

While johnny smallblock wins my "Needs to be on Decaf coffee" award, I have to agree with him.

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by johnny smallblock

Just curious:
How did "GM is rethinking building the STS/DTS replacement on Zeta" become "GM will have no flagship, no car bigger then the CTS, and Buick won't get a Lucerne replacement"?

It didn't become anything. It was the same since the beginning. YOU didn't read it correctly.

Originally Posted by nsap

General Motors has cut the upcoming Cadillac DTS replacement from the product lineup.

No DTS replacement = no flagship.

[Sal Collaziano]

More often than not, anyone buying a new BMW 7-Series will not even consider the extra couple of thousand dollars (or whatever the fine is) to have their V8 over a V6. If a 7-Series V6 becomes available - and people want it - than great. However, I don't see anybody (in this price range) opting for the v6 to save money. The car starts at $77k...

Originally Posted by fp115

Don't be so sure about that. BMW's last price increase infuriated many customers. Why would anyone want to pay a premium for a car that doesn't really have anything special to it. You think people will want to pay a $2k premium for a V8 RWD car just because 2% can afford it and want that kind of car? Answer is no, you want to attract the an audience, not a portion of the audience. BMW is going to have a very hard time keeping up and staying profitable if it continues on its current path. Mercedes will be no better, however Mercedes can allow itself the luxury of doing so much more since their target has a much higher income than BMW and Cadillac.

[Sal Collaziano]

Name calling FTW!

Originally Posted by johnny smallblock

There is a group on here, let's call them "frightened reactionary morons", who just can't wait to take every little half rumor and blow it up to the biggest disaster since the Titanic. Calm the F down.

[powervette]

How about selling Cadillac to Chinese, Arabs or Indians GM??? They would make better use of my beloved car company. I still hope cutting zeta doesn't mean cutting flagship though.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

More often than not, anyone buying a new BMW 7-Series will not even consider the extra couple of thousand dollars (or whatever the fine is) to have their V8 over a V6. If a 7-Series V6 becomes available - and people want it - than great. However, I don't see anybody (in this price range) opting for the v6 to save money. The car starts at $77k...

If that were true, the BMW employee that lives next door wouldn't have said the exact opposite. They are at the point that dealerships cannot order to fully loaded cars anymore and are keeping things rather low. Already if you have a BMW starting at $40k, you will pay $60k because of all the options. But with the inflation on prices customers saw an average of $2.5k price increase. Already BMW aren't very efficient on gas, so on top of paying increase car costs, cost of gas versus a fuel efficient alternative and another almost $2.5-5k in CAFE fines if they don't comply, why would anyone want to bother with BMW? BMW sales have been getting sloppier, especially on the X3, 5, 6, and 7 series. Coincidence?

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by fp115

If that were true, the BMW employee that lives next door wouldn't have said the exact opposite. They are at the point that dealerships cannot order to fully loaded cars anymore and are keeping things rather low. Already if you have a BMW starting at $40k, you will pay $60k because of all the options. But with the inflation on prices customers saw an average of $2.5k price increase. Already BMW aren't very efficient on gas, so on top of paying increase car costs, cost of gas versus a fuel efficient alternative and another almost $2.5-5k in CAFE fines if they don't comply, why would anyone want to bother with BMW? BMW sales have been getting sloppier, especially on the X3, 5, 6, and 7 series. Coincidence?

If you really think that the guy walking into a BMW dealership to buy their flagship luxury sedan is going to consider a v6 because its $2000.00 cheaper - than let's just agree to disagree and end our discussion here.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

If you really think that the guy walking into a BMW dealership to buy their flagship luxury sedan is going to consider a v6 because its $2000.00 cheaper - than let's just agree to disagree and end our discussion here.

Actually its the other way around, they just leave the dealership and don't come back. BMW is losing loyal customers because they are increasing their prices. Some who went into the upper models dropped down, but you can only drop down so much before calling it quits. If this is the issue with BMW, being a more "limited" brand compared to Cadillac, why should Cadillac pull off the same as BMW when Cadillac wants to sell more than 1k cars per month. Saturn, Cadillac, Lexus are taking the bulk of the customers leaving BMW to another brand.