Only@GMI: Cadillac Zeta Car Rumored Dead

[Lichtronamo]

Without a car above the CTS, Cadillac isn't a Tier 1 luxury automaker like BMW, Merc or Lexus. Its American Acura.

Given the cash crunch and investments already made, the LWB STS model sold in China would be a quick fix. Delaying a true replacement for the current DTS until 2014 (if at all) is just plain unacceptable.

This most recent development along with the delay of the Insignia, delay of the next full size trucks and the overall chaos of GM's future product plan is beginning to illustrate the full effects of the financial crisis occurring at RenCen.

[Z284ever]

Originally Posted by EllwynX

Sorry if this has been covered, there are just too many pages to go through.

With all the talk of various Zeta cars being nixed, what was the point of spending all the money to retool the Oshawa plant? The Camaro can't be the only car built there.

It's looking more and more like Camaro will end up being the only Zeta built at Oshawa. And considering how two ton, 23 mpg coupes are simply flying off the lots nowadays, I'd guess that this Camaro's actual sales will fall (far?) short of it's initial expectations. I just hope that the 5th gen doesn't do so poorly sales-wise, that it kills the Camaro brand for good. I truly feel it could happen here.

I'm also not sure how long GM will want to run an assembly line designed for 400,000 units, if it's only selling 60,000 Camaros annually.

[footney]

If GM did not have to support eight brands in NA, then it could build a STS/DTS replacement.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by footney

If GM did not have to support eight brands in NA, then it could build a STS/DTS replacement.

Agreed. They have to give up important products for core brands in order to do a MCE of the G6, bring the LaCrosse/Invicta to market and unleash a new 9-5, 9-4X and maybe a 9-1 for Saab.

[snowboarder14]

If they kill the cadillac flagshif they will kill cadillac chances to become a global luxury brand.Cadillac needs as soon as possible a big rear wheel drive sedan to compete with german's best.

[mbukukanyau]

I have been here at GMi for a number of years. GM seems to be always in a crisis. It stumbles from crisis to crisis, no concrete model plans, always fluid, no long term products, kills some mid streams, runs some for only one model, some get forgoten never upgrading, what is wrong?

[Coloradokid]

Originally Posted by Astra RL

Hopefully the aura stays true to the insignia and there will be no more bad news about this project and maybe they can revive it.

I found this blurb on another site- hopefully the bean couters will wake up!

http://cadillacenthusiastmagazine.co...in-until-2014/

[paul8488]

Cadillac is going to sit idly by and watch Lincoln overtake them.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Cadillac is going to sit idly by and watch Lincoln overtake them.

Well, if there's one thing Lincoln has on Cadillac, it's a coherent strategy and a deep pipeline of upcoming products. Ford knew money would be tight, so they embarked on a strategy that didn't require huge expenditures to keep new and fresh products on showroom floors.

GM simply assumed (or not) that they'd always have plenty of cash flow to fund big-dollar new Cadillac products, and assumed they could go from goat to hero in public perception in one or two generations.

Lincoln and Cadillac basically threw away their entire luxury-brand credentials by the late 1990's, and you can't regain that in one generation of top-shelf products. It needs to be gradual and consistent. You can't deliver knockouts like the CTS alongside half-hearted vanilla offerings like the STS.

Now we have the first glimpse of Lincoln's future on showroom floors, and the MKS is only outsold by the E-Class and 5-Series in the midsized luxury sedan class.

[drew770]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Of course I'm right. And this is one time I wish I weren't.
But this is a standard textbook case of a product being pushed out of the market for failing to recognize changing market dynamics. When a new "game changing" entrant appears in the marketplace, the existing leaders must adapt and change; otherwise, they will leave a window of opportunity for a foothold to be gained. And that is exactly what Cadillac (and Lincoln) did!
What did the Europeans do? Exactly the same thing the Americans did -- they balked too. But they all realized what was going on. If they were to continue their rise in marketshare and mindshare in the hotly contested US market, they needed to recognize the newcomer and put up a fight. And they did.

But by the time Cadillac quit dawdling with FWD cars and CTS came to market, the next-next generation BMW and Mercs were already on their way, blowing right by CTS. CTS might have been Cadillac's best effort, but it had no chance.

The Germans didn't come out of this battle with Lexus unscathed. Mercedes lost its reputation for over-built cars. But they're retooling themselves as fast as they can. And now Lexus has produced its first truly credible competitor to the S-Class. It still completely missed the target, but it's closer than ever before. It's a very credible warning shot.

Do you think Mercedes will rest on its laurels? You can bet the 10th Gen S-Class will exceed even what we can dream up today.

The point is, the luxury market is one of oneupsmanship. Lexus came on board, the Germans redoubled. Lexus tried again, the Germans redoubled and exceeded.

Cadillac barely keeping afloat. Its cars never matched the prestige offered by its rivals. It might have matched them in performance, but that's only one characteristic of a luxury car. And that's something I've said since I joined GMI. Luxury is more than HP and leather and technology. It's about image. And today's Cadillac failed to deliver on image.


It is one big dump. I wouldn't buy a car there. The entire place is right out of some Crazy Eddy commerical.

http://www.mapjack.com/?vdAnWfv4bFDE

Yes, I agree with you but GM has shown that they do not have the mindset to raise the bar to the next level.
While, Mercedes and BMW recognize threats, GM just ignores them and relies on heritage to get them through the day.
When the first generation CTS was released GM should have been working on a flagship. But, instead they were focusing on suvs and trucks.
So again, Wagoner and co. has shown a lack of vision and they have doomed Caddy just like they did Pontiac, Saturn, Buick and Saab.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Now we have the first glimpse of Lincoln's future on showroom floors, and the MKS is only outsold by the E-Class and 5-Series in the midsized luxury sedan class.

The MKS should sell a lot in the beginning - but it's going to level out like everything. It's only a matter of time Right now, it's new, different and interesting. Once it's on the road like every other car, there will be nothing unique about it - and it'll be business as usual.

The car is nice, but not nice enough to pull people away from their current mid-sized luxury vehicles. That's my prediction, anyway...

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

The MKS should sell a lot in the beginning - but it's going to level out like everything. It's only a matter of time Right now, it's new, different and interesting. Once it's on the road like every other car, there will be nothing unique about it - and it'll be business as usual.

The car is nice, but not nice enough to pull people away from their current mid-sized luxury vehicles. That's my prediction, anyway...

Well, obviously. I think MKS sales will peak within a year of being on sale (after the Eco-Boost engine debuts), then level off slowly.

One of its key selling points, strangely, appears to be the "double-wing" grill and front end. Odd that people are so attracted to it, but I won't argue with paying customers.

The important thing about the MKS is that Lincoln finally has a competitive midsize luxury sedan to sell, and will follow it up with a steady stream of new products and redesigns.

[MaxLegroom]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

Meanwhile, Infiniti and Lexus are continuing to build RWD cars.

I was at Road America this past weekend and saw a few Infiniti G's and a Lexus IS. GM needs some representation at the track, other than the Corvette, and the odd modified Camaro and the 1 GTO.

Perhaps GM needs to focus more on some light RWD cars. Could a Zeta Buick and/or Zeta Caddy be made light enough with good dynamics for the weekend racer to slap some aftermarket tires and brakes on 'er to have some fun at the track? Maybe the Kappa or NG Kappa is this platform.

All I know is I would like to see more GM cars represented at the track, able to go head to head with BMW and Mazda. BMW and Mazda are represented at the track like a swarm of gnats around your head on a warm summer evening.

If I could afford a RWD Cadillac, I'd take it out for a run once in a while, indeed, if they build the Zeta car, and I can afford it, it too will hit the track, for the shock value if nothing else.

If they don't choose to build this, perhaps they have realized that they've been aiming far too low with Cadillac for decades, and cannot attract the sort of people who always have money. When they were selling 400K a year, did the idea cross no one's mind that at that volume, they're no long really in the business of selling luxury cars? Did not one of them look at Packard's mistakes and learn a damned thing?

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Cadillac is going to sit idly by and watch Lincoln overtake them.

Oh, I don't know about that. Cadillac still has a good prodcut offering and will be adding at least 3 new vehicles in the next year. Lincoln will have to go ALONG WAY to best Cadillac in sales. The MKS is alright and it will sell up to a point. But all it can hope for is to replace Town Car sales lost in the past few years. The MKT is a wild card. I don't think anyone can confidently say sales will be fabulous or not. (They should ask Mercedes about the R Class. That things a big-'ol flop.) But all the MKZ/MKX have to look forward to is a re-grill facelift and sales of the MKX have already started to fall.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Oh, I don't know about that. Cadillac still has a good prodcut offering and will be adding at least 3 new vehicles in the next year. Lincoln will have to go ALONG WAY to best Cadillac in sales. The MKS is alright and it will sell up to a point. But all it can hope for is to replace Town Car sales lost in the past few years. The MKT is a wild card. I don't think anyone can confidently say sales will be fabulous or not. (They should ask Mercedes about the R Class. That things a big-'ol flop.) But all the MKZ/MKX have to look forward to is a re-grill facelift and sales of the MKX have already started to fall.

Three new vehicles? The CTS Coupe and Wagon are going to be niche vehicles, at best. Don't get me wrong... the CTS Coupe is more or less a poor man's Gallardo, but small coupes are not volume sellers. BRX/SRX should sell very well.

But this is all in light of the loss of the STS, XLR, as well as the fact that the DTS and Escalade will become irrelevant... Cadillac might be facing serious sales declines.

As for Lincoln... who knows. They'll be keeping their line fresh, at the very least.