Only@GMI: Cadillac Zeta Car Rumored Dead

[63GrandSport001]

FLX kind of has that fleetwood sound to it lol

Why is GM doing this???

[NoSpelCheckr]

I think this has to do with the MKS now outselling the STS almost 2 to 1 and GM management not sure about anything. Instead of looking at numbers all day and trying to react to them, GM management should use some damn common sense and do what seems right. Yeah, the MKZ may be selling well now but that doesn't mean you have to cancal all RWD platforms and move everything to FWD/AWD. Lincoln hasn't had a worthy product in forever and all the die hards have been sitting on their money waiting for this car. Management probably wants to pull the funds and wait to see what happens. Bad idea as that will only put GM further behind. You have made the right decision. Now stick with it and show the world that you aren't clueless.

Furthermore, I think the STS is the best looking Caddy. I like the CTS but not as much. I don't know why it isn't selling well. Caddy should address the issues that people have with it in an evelutionary design. Drop the DTS and add a serious 3 series fighter. If people are confused about the CTS class/price then add a bunch of gadgets and price it just under a 5 series.

*** Sorry, meant the new MKS ***

[Chevy Ryan]

I know this won't be popular, but I'm going to say it anyway. GM should quit North America and just sell to the rest of the world. Seriously. GMNA has become a major albatross around GM's neck. Every other region (GME, GMLAAM and GMAP) breaks even or makes money. Give up on North America and grow where the growth is happening.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jgill16

Hey Mgescuro, if Cadillac was to built a true S-class what do you think of the name Cadillac FLX. Does it sound like catchy name or does it sound ***.LOL

Cadillac FTS -- Fleetwood Touring Sedan

[iluvcamaros]

I think the Lucerne could go on a few more years with a heavy Enclave style interior/exterior makeover along with the 3.6 becoming the standard engine. Its biggest rival is the Toyota Avalon, I wouldn't define this as "fierce" competition. Though an all-new model would be nice to have eventually.

Originally Posted by Griffen427

When they refer to the Lucerne as "aging" they mean all of its underpinnings. The platform it rides on and V6 it uses have been for around for over 20 years.

The H/C bodies were all moved to the Aurora G/K platform, but they all continued using their respective platform designations. As far as I know the 97+ Park Avenue and 2000+ LeSabre/Lucerne have little in common with the 80's H-bodies. The Aurora came out in 95 so you could say 13 years but hardly 20+. Even going by that the Aurora was a bit ahead of the curve to be a 90's GM car.

[cad1cts]

Hmm...seems to me like I might be missing out on something in SF. lol I must say the Cadillac dealership experience out that way for you guys is pathetic and shameful. Here in Birmingham Tom Williams has an excellent new Cadillac dealership. They also have a lot of the usual luxury cars Lexus, BMW, Audi, Porsche, etc. Theres another one in Hoover I think, Crest, which is a nice relatively new dealer. That all doesn't take away from the fact that Cadillac is messed up big time.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Kheiron

wow, makes you wonder if the alpha cadillac will get cancelled?

maybe GM should sell Cadillac if they are going to castrate them and not give them the tools to succeed. I'm not in the market for a zeta Cadillac, but I was really looking forward to seeing it!

Hopefully this is just a rumor...

I would expect the Alpha Cadillac to be out by 2012-ish, if not later. That would be about 5 years too late to market.

I would not advise Cadillac to be sold.
However, I do believe Cadillac needs to stand on its own -- away from the stupidity of the GM management and the clueless board of directors.

I believe Cadillac needs to be spun off as a separate entity, much the way the original Saturn was a separate entity.
Cadillac can build cars entirely separate from GM. They can build and utilize their own parts bin --- not shared by lower GM cars. They would ahve their own platforms -- fully extensible, so Cadillac can build multiple cars on the same platform, bringing economies of scale. They'd have a separate dealership network, much the way Saturn did. And hopefully have an entirely separate UAW contract -- one that ensures the highest degree of quality and full control of the assembly line by the workers. Workers than will give the highest attention to Cadillacs being built by their hands.

Cadillac needs to be distanced from the pedestrian cars of GM. A clean break is needed, so Cadillac can spread its wings and truly realize what went wrong. And GM needs to say to dealers, "You are incompetent and unworthy of selling Cadillacs."

Cadillac needs to get back to the time where it was a true privilege to drive a Cadillac. Lines need to be drawn in the sand. Certain things need to be considered unacceptable. Everything that started off so well with the Renaissance has been torn down. And it's as bad now as it was back then. Except the competition is even stronger and there are more players.

Hope for Cadillac is diminishing.
We need to realize what GM has done... what Lutz's senile management of product development has done... and what Cadillac management has done is completely and utterly UNACCEPTABLE.

8 years has gone down the drain. GM has no money. GM is on the cusp of bankrputcy. And if GM manages to pull itself out, it wont' be until 2015 until Cadillac has enough funding to realize anything worthwhile.

Game Over Cadillac!! You have lost!!

Originally Posted by cad1cts

Hmm...seems to me like I might be missing out on something in SF. lol I must say the Cadillac dealership experience out that way for you guys is pathetic and shameful. Here in Birmingham Tom Williams has an excellent new Cadillac dealership. They also have a lot of the usual luxury cars Lexus, BMW, Audi, Porsche, etc. Theres another one in Hoover I think, Crest, which is a nice relatively new dealer. That all doesn't take away from the fact that Cadillac is messed up big time.

I believe that there are truly some excellent Cadillac dealerships around the country somewhere. But the overall dealership experience at Cadillac is too inconsistent.
If there is just one crap hole of a Cadillac dealership out there, then Cadillac has failed.

I'm willing to bet that there is no Cadillac dealership in America that comes close to what Cadillac has launched in China!!

And I'm willing to bet that there is no Cadillac dealership in America that comes close to what the imports are doing at some of their luxury dealerships either.

People can say, "it's not about the look." But we're talking about a luxury product and a luxury brand. It's ALL about the look!! It's all image!!

Can I take a luxury brand seriously if they intend to sell a $100,000 roadster next to an Aveo? Absolutely NOT!

[cad1cts]

You're right on the money mgescuro.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Cadillac FTS -- Fleetwood Touring Sedan

Don't forget the Fleetwood Touring Wagon. The kids would love that.

As for the MKS argument, I would tend to agree that it was Lincoln faithful that held out until something new was released. AWD barges aren't really that copmetitive. Sure you can build one if the rest of your lineup is doing well, but to pin your Marques future on such a narrow focussed product is foolishness personified. Diversification of the CTS lineup is going to help Caddy in a big way if they can cure some of the refinement issues of the HFV6. Hopefully the CT and an Alpha can help generate some decent development dollars for a STS replacement in the future, but IMO they have slipped so far, they have to rebuild their reputatioon over time. Pouring money into a flag ship model for a marque that has fallen so badly, is not going to get you anywhere. No one respects King $#!t of turd island.

[paul8488]

For me it isn't so much the lack of a 'flagship' as it is the lack of a proper large sedan! The current STS was never a hit, so it needs to replaced. Not from a 'we need a fancy halo car' standpoint... from a 'we need cars that we can sell and make money off of' standpoint! Cadillac has survived the past few years thanks to massive profits from the Escalade series... with those dropping fast, they need to shore up their car lineup. CTS is excellent, and the coupe and wagon will help... but Caddy desperately needs another car to compliment it. I think a bigger one makes sense... with the success of the CTS people need something to move up to. A proper BLS is a good idea too, but Caddy isn't having trouble getting people in the door to buy the CTS, so it's maybe not quite as important right now (for a luxury brand). Either way they need SOMETHING!

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by Docray1

You would be real proud of that 'chop' if you had seen the DT7. . .your design actually is cleaner and more futuristic at the front end, which caused the greatest trouble for the designers, apparently. Well done!

Thanks for your comments Docray1.

Here's closeup views if the front and rear....

Click for Larger Pic.

[Odin]

GM needs new leadership, without a large rwd sedan how can cadillac be take seriously as a worldwide luxury brand, what a joke. Why cant GM lead, and not react all the damn time.

[Hoboken Tim]

I understand that GM needs to concentrate on small car at the moment and conserve cash. They should bring over the long wheel base STS from china, so they have a large car to replace the DTS, until they have the money for a proper flag ship.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by Hoboken Tim

They should bring over the long wheel base STS from china, so they have a large car to replace the DTS, until they have the money for a proper flag ship.

I hadn't thought of that! That's a good, simple solution... doesn't fix the problem entirely, but it would help out a bit.

[Docray1]

Originally Posted by paul8488

I hadn't thought of that! That's a good, simple solution... doesn't fix the problem entirely, but it would help out a bit.

The STS is gone in the USA after the 2010 model year. The DTS will continue until a new solution is devised (or money is found to "resurrect" the Zeta based DT7) and will soon offer a V6. The mid-cycle Escalade refresh has also been dropped, by the way.