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NASCAR, Cadillac, Chevrolet and Cryptic Rumors From Australia

10K views 64 replies 28 participants last post by  LIKAROK 
#1 ·
#6 ·
Yes maybe.Beside the Impala's V6, there's no reason to choose it over the new 'Bu.

It also would feed into the theory that GM is slowly trying to cut out Oshawa assembly. The Impala failed to break 100,000 sales in the US in 2016 for the first time ever. Regardless of if it goes to RWD or not, I think Oshawa will lose its share of Impala production to D-HAM, either because it moves to P2XX like the LaCrosse or because it goes Omega like CT6.

But wouldn't it be sweeeeet if we got a Monte Carlo or Chevelle reincarnate...
 
#8 ·
Money says that it's the Mid Engined-Corvette.
A) GM has been pushing to trademark the Corvette Logo for years and are really really fighting hard on it, more than any typical secure all trademarks measure
B) Mid engined car is supposed to have a Corvette as well as a Cadillac variant.
C) Camaro would be too obvious of a choice

I do think the Camaro will be the next NASCAR body.
 
#10 ·
Maybe, but I was told the product would be SHARED across Cadillac, Chevrolet and Holden. Unless selling the Chevy Corvette in Holden stores counts as Holden getting one.

Comments from Holden also made it sound like there will be derivatives of the product, which I took to mean the potential for Coupe/Sedan.

I believe the mid-engine will likely go Down Under, but I think it's distinct from this here...
 
#17 · (Edited)
I'm pretty sure we're all kind of right. I went over this in another post in another thread somewhere, when the news about Holden's RWD product still coming was announced.

There are a couple of principles we need to look at to determine what the product might be.
  • It's at least RWD.
  • It's probably V8.
  • It's RHD.
  • It may not be a single product in a single segment; we may see several products go to Holden.
  • It will not be a Cadillac.
  • It will not be here until post-2018.

Now it's time to go through GM's RWD platforms, now and in the future:
  • A1XX
  • O1XX
  • Y2XX
  • A2XX/O2XX (likely the beginning of VSS; less "platforms" than codified architectural solutions)
  • Y3XX (new Corvette)

I believe I read that Team Corvette managed a way to do F(M?)R and RMR on the same platform and we will see C7 and C8 exist TOGETHER with both models coexisting in a new product cadence, but we will only address this as a "new Corvette" as the RMR one will be first and is the only one we really "know" will be on the way in the near future anyway.

Which platforms actually will (or may) work with those principles already defined:
  • O1XX
  • A2XX/O2XX
  • Y3XX

What is each platform reportedly capable of?
  • O1XX - something as small as a wider CTS to larger than an S-Class; no crossovers, RHD very questionable, coupes? convertibles?
  • A2XX/O2XX - something as small as an ATS to larger than an S-Class; larger crossovers, coupes, convertibles
  • Y3XX - RMR Corvette

What products is GM reportedly or potentially working on? What do the concepts they've done tell us about what they might be entertaining?
  • ATS successor (likely ATS-L sized) (2018-2020)
  • CTS successor (likely a little bigger, or packaged more along the lines of the Commodore) (2018-2020)
  • CT4, an ATS coupe and convertible successor (post-2020)
  • CT7, a large coupe (most likely along the lines of the Lexus LC) (post 2020?)
  • CT8, a car larger than CT6
  • Avenir, or better yet a cheaper large RWD sedan in the vein of CT6
  • RWD Impala successor and SS merger if there is a new Impala at all (perhaps Avenir is an exploration of this concept?)
  • new Corvette, RMR Cadillac twin
  • a product named "Chevelle"




What makes the most sense?
  • A2XX-based CTS successor for a RWD "Commodore" that finds its way to the US as a new Impala or "Chevelle" for more "attainable" performance like the former/current Commodore in almost facsimile
  • RMR Corvette as a halo product for the lineup

Now, the reach: an "Omega-based" A2XX-O2XX technicality of a Chevrolet version of a CT7 (an opportunity for scale nobody else out there has access to) to share with Holden as a Chevrolet Chevelle (effectively an Impala coupe) and a Holden Monaro (Commodore coupe) to combat the Mustang and Challenger with competitors to BOTH while offering something with greater practicality to Australia than something smaller like a Camaro or Mustang and affording Cadillac the scale to produce a business case for a large coupe that, under its own banner, will only sell as well as ELR if they're lucky and do it right.
 
#19 ·
I'm pretty sure we're all kind of right. I went over this in another post in another thread somewhere, when the news about Holden's RWD product still coming was announced.

There are a couple of principles we need to look at to determine what the product might be.

  • It's at least RWD.
    It's probably V8.
    It's RHD.
    It may not be a single product in a single segment; we may see several products go to Holden.
    It will not be a Cadillac.
    It will not be here until post-2018.

Now it's time to go through GM's RWD platforms, now and in the future:

  • A1XX
    O1XX
    Y2XX
    A2XX/O2XX (likely the beginning of VSS; less "platforms" than codified architectural solutions)
    Y3XX (new Corvette)

I believe I read that Team Corvette managed a way to do F(M?)R and RMR on the same platform and we will see C7 and C8 exist TOGETHER with both models coexisting in a new product cadence, but we will only address this as a "new Corvette" as the RMR one will be first and is the only one we really "know" will be on the way in the near future anyway.

Which platforms actually will (or may) work with those principles already defined:

  • O1XX
    A2XX/O2XX
    Y3XX

What is each platform reportedly capable of?

  • O1XX - something as small as a wider CTS to larger than an S-Class; no crossovers, RHD very questionable, coupes? convertibles?
    A2XX/O2XX - something as small as an ATS to larger than an S-Class; larger crossovers, coupes, convertibles
    Y3XX - RMR Corvette

What products is GM reportedly or potentially working on? What do the concepts they've done tell us about what they might be entertaining?

  • ATS successor (likely ATS-L sized) (2018-2020)
    CTS successor (likely a little bigger, or packaged more along the lines of the Commodore) (2018-2020)
    CT4, an ATS coupe and convertible successor (post-2020)
    CT7, a large coupe (most likely along the lines of the Lexus LC) (post 2020?)
    CT8, a car larger than CT6
    Avenir, or better yet a cheaper large RWD sedan in the vein of CT6
    RWD Impala successor and SS merger if there is a new Impala at all (perhaps Avenir is an exploration of this concept?)
    new Corvette, RMR Cadillac twin
    a product named "Chevelle"




What makes the most sense?

  • A2XX-based CTS successor for a RWD "Commodore" that finds its way to the US as a new Impala or "Chevelle" for more "attainable" performance like the former/current Commodore in almost facsimile
    RMR Corvette as a halo product for the lineup

Now, the reach: an "Omega-based" A2XX-O2XX technicality of a Chevrolet version of a CT7 (an opportunity for scale nobody else out there has access to) to share with Holden as a Chevrolet Chevelle (effectively an Impala coupe) and a Holden Monaro (Commodore coupe) to combat the Mustang and Challenger with competitors to BOTH while offering something with greater practicality to Australia than something smaller like a Camaro or Mustang and affording Cadillac the scale to produce a business case for a large coupe that, under its own banner, will only sell as well as ELR if they're lucky and do it right.
In my mind, the reach is dead. Is there really enough space for another coupe above the Camaro (which already tops off at 75k w/ the Z/28)? Better chances as the A2xx/O2xx Impala/Senator/CT7 4 or 5 door coupe. The 4 door coupe and the mid engined car are the only non-crossover vehicles that make business sense in my mind. I a swoopy CT7 would fight the A7/Panamera. A Swoopy 4 door coupe Impala would finally give the Charger something to fear. A Holden senator would replace thr luxury model that they lost and could be styled like the Avenir or the RWD Impala.
 
#20 ·
I'm thinking it will be the Malibu, as it is a direct competitor in showrooms to the Camry and Fusion. Also have to make the greenhouse of the racecar similar to other makes, and the Impala would be too large to do that and look right. I think Chevy may want to go more mainstream also, so the Malibu may be a better fit, while the Impala may seem to be more upscale to some. Either way, it'll look better than the SS.
 
#22 ·
Australian man cannot live on imported Opels alone.

Holden as a wholly local producer may not endure, but Opel imports cannot be expected to sate the Aussie appetite alone.

The pipeline reverses, and easily rebadged efforts will prevail.

Chevy is the obvious donor; and the continent craves performance.
 
#27 ·
But there's nothing Chevrolet can offer on its own that cannot be donated from elsewhere.

Nothing it does will be high volume. GM will not release a product that could damage or inhibit Malibu sales performance (I'm betting that's why Impala is going RWD or out the door), and there's nothing else they can release that's not a Camaro or Corvette that has the scale or price structure to support itself on its own.

My (I'm betting good) guess is that the donor will be Cadillac to Chevrolet, who will have a twin at Holden.

Not directly addressing you, but others in the thread and the potential line of thought of others that may yet post, I don't think Buick is a very valid answer, either.

Someone just talked to the Buick guys and, hopeful though they may have been for an Avenir, they openly admitted that RWD and performance as the hardest arguments to make in terms of product for Buick. Considering the very slim likelihood of an Avenir and the reported smackdown over even SHOWING Avista, I don't think we're seeing anything from RWD Buick that's not a licensed e-bike.
 
#26 ·
I again offer my suggestion: Build a RWD Impala with a 2.0T and 3.6L for normal retail and rental/corporate fleets and either a TTV6 or V8 for an SS/9C1. Voila, that replaces the Impala Limited, Impala, SS, and Caprice all at once.

Hell, make it RHD and ship it to Australia if they want it.
I'll just leave this here.
 
#59 ·
It doesn't matter in NASCAR. The bodies are basically the same with all makes with different decals. Also, if one make is more or less aerodynamic than the others, NASCAR changes them with spoilers or other adjustments to either reward or punish them to make everyone equal.

I don't think the name on the car makes much if any difference in sales. Th old "in on Sunday, sale on Monday" is history.
 
#37 ·
Everyone is assuming the new product will be RWD. Obviously, it would be the CORRECT decision.

However, based on the Camry and Fusion entries in NASCAR, is this a given?
 
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#45 ·
Blazer sounds most likely if true. I wouldn't expect movement on this until the end of the year at the absolute most unlikely earliest.

I don't even think the OPEL version has been fully debuted of the new Commodore.

I'm betting there will be about a year or so of "no product" by virtue of launch dates, etc. Even at that, it'd be a few years ahead the replacement of its most likely donor car CTS/CT5. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out.

Good 'cause I didn't take any notes. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and F*** someone....
Just don't pay your taxes, and you'll get ****ed. It's actually extremely easy.
 
#50 · (Edited)
If they refuse to name the Malibu or Impala as the Successor to SS in Nascar, then why would we think it would be a new Impala?

If it's a Chevy Omega, why not just... Chevrolet?

The SS currently made is a Chevrolet SS. Just get rid of the SS and...Chevrolet.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qw7HSfoMvw
In this 1964 ad, with platform proliferation in high gear, there was the sense that "Chevrolet" meant, automatically, the big one. So with the Chevy II or Chevelle names there was no need to say "Chevrolet Chevy II" since you already had Chev in there and obviously "Chevrolet Chevrolet" was unneccassary as the clever ad jingle says.

Similar to the way it was always understood "Pontiac" meant the big one and even at Car Life or Motor Trend writers often said "Tempest GTO" even though it was never actually a Tempest 'model' but the Lemans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qw7HSfoMvw
 
#51 ·
If they refuse to name the Malibu or Impala as the Successor to SS in Nascar, then why would we think it would be a new Impala?

If it's a Chevy Omega, why not just... Chevrolet?
They go through that whole ad without calling the Chevy by model name & then call it the 1977 Caprice Classic Sedan under the picture. Even when you have facts to back up your point of view, the manufacturer still throws a monkey wrench into it. :fall:
 
#55 ·
They are the same trucks as the Dodge badged machines sold the year before. FCA needed some kind of good news after the bankruptcy in order to try to help spur more traffic & sales. "Creating" a new brand & calling it the fastest growing brand sounds like your stuff is popular, even if the numbers don't support it.
 
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