Malibu Rated #1 in Initial Quality

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Yes, you have hit a nerve. I apologize for erupting like that, I am just tired of hearing stupid excuses from people who don't need or want the system. They try and make an excuse for GM when they make an error. GM screwed up when they designed Epsilon I, they didn't plan ahead now it will be without this option and probably others for the next few years.

+1.

How many people use the rear-window defrosters every single time they drive? How about the engine block heater? The A/C? How many people that will buy the Z06 over the regular C6 actually take their car to the track everyday? How many people that bought the "Autobahn Package" on the Olds Intrigue actually drove the car on the Autobahn?

There are tons of things that cars come with these days that you don't use on a day-to-day basis, but that doesn't mean they are unimportant.

Most people that bought the F-body bought a V6, so does that mean that the new camaro doesn't need to offer a V8? Most of those V6 sold were 195hp models, so maybe the new Camaro doesn't even need a V6, just stick with the 260hp Turbo-4 and call it a day I don't think that would fly.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by a_v_s

+1.

How many people use the rear-window defrosters every single time they drive? How about the engine block heater? The A/C? How many people that will buy the Z06 over the regular C6 actually take their car to the track everyday? How many people that bought the "Autobahn Package" on the Olds Intrigue actually drove the car on the Autobahn?

There are tons of things that cars come with these days that you don't use on a day-to-day basis, but that doesn't mean they are unimportant.

Most people that bought the F-body bought a V6, so does that mean that the new camaro doesn't need to offer a V8? Most of those V6 sold were 195hp models, so maybe the new Camaro doesn't even need a V6, just stick with the 260hp Turbo-4 and call it a day I don't think that would fly.

Thank you, even though these features aren't as important as a steering wheel they still have their uses and customers willing to pay for these features. I know I wouldn't buy a V6 Camaro when I can get a V8.

[RJGill84]

Originally Posted by eaton53

At least it's possible to upgrade OnStar... with in dash nav you're just screwed. Most people realize this, which explains the 1.5% take rate on in dash nav.

The price of OnStar can't go up fast enough to make much difference and pay as you go is a huge source of savings. And if you decide it's too expensive you can just stop paying... you haven't already spent the money.

Umm, I'd LOVE to know where your idea of OnStar being infinitely upgradeable comes from????!!!

I have a 2001 Pontiac Bonneville with OnStar and I CANNOT upgrade OnStar in ANY way. As of January 2008 the OnStar unit in my vehicle is NO LONGER FUNCTIONAL because of the switch from analog cellular to digital. Only CERTAIN 2003+ GM vehicles can be upgraded to the new system, the rest of us were CUT OFF. So your statement "At least it's possible to upgrade OnStar... with in dash nav you're just screwed" is LAUGHABLY incorrect. And this was only 7 years after the purchase! Atleast if I had in dash, I COULD STILL USE THE SYSTEM. With OnStar, it's just DEAD.

Please, tell me how, in your words, "by pushing the blue button you get all the latest technology"?? When I push the blue button, I get a message saying they're sorry but the OnStar system in my vehicle is NO LONGER SUPPORTED. This idea that OnStar is infinitely upgradeable in comparison to in dash GPS is the stupidest thing I have EVER heard. Older generation OnStar systems do NOT have the capabilities of the current OnStar system (i.e. stopping the vehicle during a theft) - how do you upgrade to THAT? Ya cant. You are 100% incorrect about OnStar being magically upgradeable.

When the next cellular technology comes around from Verizon (Verizon provides the service for OnStar), YOUR OnStar will also become OUTDATED and will NOT function. Verizon and OnStar currently use a CDMA network , but last week Verizon announced that it would use the GSM-protocol LTE for their fourth-generation data services. Guess what - you're "SCREWED". The system will no longer operate! The hardware in your vehicle will not be compatible. You'll be "screwed" just like I am! I paid thousands for the OnStar option only for it to NOT WORK 7 years later. So your "you havent already spent the money" argument is also WRONG. I DID spend the money! Now I can't use OnStar AT ALL, let alone use it outdated.

Also, your argument about navigation units not being worthwhile, or how people put in destinations for places they know how to get to is also MORONIC. My navigation system has LIVE traffic updates. The system will automatically route me around slow traffic, accidents, etc. It tells me things like "accident in left lane ahead in 3 miles", "slow traffic - average speed 32mph". It also knows when a detour is in effect and can route around that on its own. You bet I put in the route to my house from work EVERY day to avoid traffic tie ups and construction detours. Also, I don't have to play with programming and buttons - my system is 100% VOICE activated. I simply say things like ""Go home", or "nearest gas station" and it takes me there.

Unfortunately, you talk out your @$$ in a HUGE way. Your arguments show that you are someone with ZERO knowledge of this topic.

[Saturn69]

Okay, back to the initial quality on the Malibu.

[fastdriver]

Anyone who owns one ISN'T surprised by this award!

[Minnesota Nice]

Question for new Malibu owners:

How does the car handle and drive compared to the last generation? I have a rental and the steering is really floppy.

[RSW]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Youre kidding, right?
People willing to pay a premium to avoid 3 defects per 100 cars are retards.

Say a Honda is $1K more than a Chevy. Now go to a casino and place a bet based on this initial quality.... there's a big wheel with 100 slots in it and three of them say "Chevy defect". Hit one of the other 97 slots and you lose that $1K because the you paid the premium but got nothing.

When I put it that way you probably take that grand and run away from that sucker bet as fast as you can. Yet stupid people place it every day. Me, I always take the money and run.

This post would be a fantastic refutation IF we all owned cars for 90 days. However, instead of taking the number of defects as totals, they must be taken as indicators, and moreover as indicators not only of a flat or stable ratio but potentially more than that. Not only do defects multiply over time but a car with 3% more defects in 90 days is likely in five years not to have only 3% more defects but a far greater percentage. This differential can be confirmed by driving a 15 year old Civic and then for comparison driving a 15 year old Cavalier. I hope and believe GM is doing better these days - I know I would buy one - but only time will tell.

To get away from "bashing" GM for a moment, consider also that the Jaguar S-type won an award for intial quality a few years back. How much more needs to be said?

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by fastdriver

Anyone who owns one ISN'T surprised by this award!

How are you finding the Malibu, Fast? Do you trust the long term reliability? Are you enjoying the vehicle? How is the braking performance? Past Malibu's had crappy breaks. Is it roomy? Fuel economy?

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by RSW

To get away from "bashing" GM for a moment, consider also that the Jaguar S-type won an award for intial quality a few years back. How much more needs to be said?

Do you really thing the last Malibu had such terrible reliability? Most of the complaints from the last generation (The majority I heard) was poor breaking performance and steering clunk. I don't remember hearing of anyone blowing an engine or transmission. To me thats terrible reliability however, I am not as picky about non-powertrain related things.

[RSW]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Do you really thing the last Malibu had such terrible reliability? Most of the complaints from the last generation (The majority I heard) was poor breaking performance and steering clunk. I don't remember hearing of anyone blowing an engine or transmission. To me thats terrible reliability however, I am not as picky about non-powertrain related things.

No, I don't have any feeling that the last Malibu was particularly bad - didn't mean to imply I felt that way. As far as I know it was average.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by RSW

No, I don't have any feeling that the last Malibu was particularly bad - didn't mean to imply I felt that way. As far as I know it was average.

Yea thats what I was thinking, nothing impressive as far as reliability or quality but ok/average. I really think this Malibu will be better in all areas however.

[LT-1]

This is all fine and dandy.... and I'm thrilled to see that GM is finally doing something right. Unfortunately I still can't afford to own a GM vehicle. The biggest expense of owning a vehicle is still depreciation. If I'd bought American cars the last 10 years instead of Toyotas, I'd be the proud owner of a worthless vehicle and never be able to afford a new car again. Maybe you guys that make $100 grand can rationalize all your Cadillacs and Pontiacs and Buicks, but I find it difficult to afford the $1,000 depreciation per year on my Toyota. If I was forced to live on my current fixed income and drive an American car, I'd have to do like the folks in Cuba.... and just get me an old piece of junk and keep fixing it.

If it wasn't for Toyota and Honda, I hate to think what choices we'd even have from GM and Ford today. Fortunately competition has driven them to produce good vehicles finally. I think the longer warranties that GM is now offering will help to make some people try them again, but if they don't make sure they make every customer happy, this will be the last hurrah for them. It should also go a long way in improving their resale value, since now you can sell one after 3 years and the next guy will still have a warranty. It's pretty obvious what it's done for Hyundai and their resale values.

Now if we could just give them a crystal ball so they could figure out what the market will need in 2-5 years. Unfortunately, they read forums like this which makes them think their current owners are thrilled with what they're making, so they just keep building the same crap. I don't think I'm being antiAmerican or disloyal to GM (I've owned more of them than most of you)... or Toyota... or anyone else, when I am critical of what they're making. If they listened to the people complaining, instead of the people praising them, they might put their brain in gear. This phenomena is what got us bigger and bigger trucks and SUVs. You'd think that the first time one of the GM VIPs drove one of those prototypes home and it wouldn't fit in his freakin garage, his brain would have kicked in. Very few of them know how to think outside the box... till gas hits $4 a gallon.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by LT-1

This is all fine and dandy.... and I'm thrilled to see that GM is finally doing something right. Unfortunately I still can't afford to own a GM vehicle. The biggest expense of owning a vehicle is still depreciation. If I'd bought American cars the last 10 years instead of Toyotas, I'd be the proud owner of a worthless vehicle and never be able to afford a new car again. Maybe you guys that make $100 grand can rationalize all your Cadillacs and Pontiacs and Buicks, but I find it difficult to afford the $1,000 depreciation per year on my Toyota. If I was forced to live on my current fixed income and drive an American car, I'd have to do like the folks in Cuba.... and just get me an old piece of junk and keep fixing it.

What the hell are you talking about? You can't afford a $15K car? That isn't so much GM's fault now is it? Yes, cars depreciate. But not to the point where you can't afford to buy one. Don't trade in so often; lease instead of buy; buy used instead of new. There are many ways to avoid depreciation. If you're on a fixed income, your money would be better spent on leasing or buying new anyway, it's actually kinda stupid (from a financial standpoint) to buy a new car, ever, regardless of depreciation. I guess what I am saying is that depreciation doesn't affect the price of the car or you monthly payment, so I don't understand why you can't afford an American car.

[LT-1]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

What the hell are you talking about? You can't afford a $15K car? That isn't so much GM's fault now is it? Yes, cars depreciate. But not to the point where you can't afford to buy one. Don't trade in so often; lease instead of buy; buy used instead of new. There are many ways to avoid depreciation. If you're on a fixed income, your money would be better spent on leasing or buying new anyway, it's actually kinda stupid (from a financial standpoint) to buy a new car, ever, regardless of depreciation. I guess what I am saying is that depreciation doesn't affect the price of the car or you monthly payment, so I don't understand why you can't afford an American car.

Apparently you've never done the math dude. Leasing is more expensive than purchasing (I used to sell Chevrolets... BTW), unless you have a business and can write off the lease costs. I lose more on the "up front cost" to leasing a new Malibu than 2 years of depreciation on purchasing a Camry, for example.

I happen to like purchasing new technology every 3-5 years, and having a vehicle that's dependable and under warranty. I owned my last Toyota 6.5 years and I sold it for $6,000 less than what I paid for it brand new... and all I ever had to pay for was oil changes and a new battery. The one I owned before that I owned 2 years and sold it for $600 less than I paid for it brand new, but that was an exception even in my experience.

So... since I'm on a limited budget, I should be patriotic and spend myself into bankruptcy, just so GM can stay solvent? Good luck on convincing me of that concept

And all my brother's coworkers at the NUMMI plant won't be agreeing with you anytime soon either Hopefully GM has been watching closely to see what Toyota is doing over there.

[DarkRaider]

Originally Posted by LT-1

Apparently you've never done the math dude. Leasing is more expensive than purchasing (I used to sell Chevrolets... BTW), unless you have a business and can write off the lease costs. I lose more on the "up front cost" to leasing a new Malibu than 2 years of depreciation on purchasing a Camry, for example.

I happen to like purchasing new technology every 3-5 years, and having a vehicle that's dependable and under warranty. I owned my last Toyota 6.5 years and I sold it for $6,000 less than what I paid for it brand new... and all I ever had to pay for was oil changes and a new battery. The one I owned before that I owned 2 years and sold it for $600 less than I paid for it brand new, but that was an exception even in my experience.

So... since I'm on a limited budget, I should be patriotic and spend myself into bankruptcy, just so GM can stay solvent? Good luck on convincing me of that concept

And all my brother's coworkers at the NUMMI plant won't be agreeing with you anytime soon either Hopefully GM has been watching closely to see what Toyota is doing over there.

First off, there is no way you can get $6.5k depreciation on any car after 6yrs of use! Unless the person that brought it from you is clueless about cars. Yes, Toyota cars hold pretty good depreciation, unfortunately your 6.5k is rather an over exaggerated number. And $600 off a 2yr old car, are you kidding me again. I have Toyotas also, so I know what the resale values are. Even for fleet sales, Toyota doesn't go too low

Secondly, about someone commenting on leasing, GM cars on lease, residual affects your lease payments, given the pathetic resale values of GM cars, it adds onto your lease payments, unlike a toyota/honda, which has a high residual value (low depreciation).

Given GM is starting to move away from fleet sales, the resale values will get better, and also add on better quality, proven cars will also help. 08 model is a start, won't know until 3yrs from now, 5yrs from now. People need a reliability record to go on. The good thing about GM cars is, buying used gets you an awesome deal, and buying certain cars from the GM family helps. I think the previous model Malibu/Impala is not a bad buy used.

As far as GM not knowing where the Market is going, Honda/Toyota has been lucky. These are the same guys that started building huge SUVs (pilot/sequlia/etc) and Trucks (ridgeline/tundra) not to long ago. They must have been looking out the same crystal ball. GM's problem was, difficult to walk away from large suvs and trucks given the huge profit margins and ignored the low profit areas (small cars). Toyota and Honda started on small cars hence they perfected it, well they used to , now, they are just producing cars too fast and having unnecessary quality recalls, transmission issues,etc. I think more and more, Toyota is becoming another GM, and Honda is not far behind, quality going down hill.

The General has come along, competition is great, and falling to number 2 on the global sales is the best thing that happened to the General. Otherwise, they would justify keeping the same idiots in mgmt, etc and have no innovation,etc to carry the company foward.