Malibu Rated #1 in Initial Quality

[eaton53]

Dang... the only car I ever had that much trouble with was my '85 Merkur, which spit out 4 transmissions.

Since Ford had the lifetime service guarantee at that time I paid $1200 for the first one, the other 3 were on them so it didn't cost me anywhere near the kind of money you're talkin'.

I understand that cars break so what I care about is whether it costs me money. When I get another Cadillac it will likely be certified... nice long warranty, plus they tend to be the best creampuffs.

If that was my Honda it would've been gone right after the 2nd A/C repair. That reputation of theirs went real far when they had their hand out.

Those vehicle you are considering sound like great choices, don't forget to post some photos once you’re an owner.

It'll be awhile... my Miata's 8 years old and the Tahoe's 10... barely broken in!
In the past my average truck has been 17 when I sell it and I see no reason why the Hoe won't make that.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Dang... the only car I ever had that much trouble with was my '85 Merkur, which spit out 4 transmissions.

Since Ford had the lifetime service guarantee at that time I paid $1200 for that one, the other 3 were on them so it didn't cost me anywhere near the kind of money you're talkin'. I understand that cars break so what I care about is whether it costs me money.

Damn, that’s unacceptable. I can see why people in the 80's gave up on GM and Ford. My main concern is will the car leave me stranded, how much it will cost to repair, and the time it takes to repair. People still have issues with Domestics but it seems the most recent model years have quality powertrains. As long as I can drive the car safely until the repairs can be done I will likely be happy.

Yea the A/C was ridiculous, but we were living in New York and the insurance was a few thousand dollars a year. If we got a new car we would have been paying over $5k a year for insurance. This with drivers that haven't been in one minor accident in 25 years...

When I get a job it will be replaced with a Fusion/Milan or a Chevy Malibu.

[lam]

Originally Posted by DarkRaider

Can somehow provide a quantitative number as to how many people out there renew their ONSTAR once the 1yr free membership is over.

I don't understand why some of you on this forum continue to support the lack of navigation They screwed up this one, oversight or lack of electrical to support on Epilson I,etc. However, Toyota/honda already had it.

GM is continuing to make better quality cars, and given the recent recall issues with Toyota/Honda, they are starting to make small leaps. But long way to go for the general. I think my next car will be a lexus, until I see more improvements from the general.
See the question is, will anyone here close their eyes and buy a GM or Toyota, I mean PURCHASE. I don't have the guts anymore, I prefer to go with a sure thing until I see impressive scores from consumer reports, etc. GM cars are a good cars to lease, i hope in the near future it becomes good cars to purchase.

Before getting the Lexus ES. Try the 2010(comes out January 2009) Buick Lacrosse on the new Epsilon II platform.

The Pontiac G6 ,2004 Chevrolet Malibu, and Epsilon I was all products of crap Ron Zarella. It's no wonder why Rick Wagoner Fired Ron Zarella and replace him with Bob Lutz.

[eaton53]

Damn, that’s unacceptable. I can see why people in the 80's gave up on GM and Ford.

That's not all, it gets better. XR4ti's had a design flaw in the climate controls so that if the temp dropped below freezing all you would get is cold air. German engineering at its best!!

It would also get stuck in 1" of snow and I had a '78 Chevy K10 4x4 with a really good heater so the Merkur sat in the cold. Good 'ol truck, that Chevy.

Despite that, the Merkur is still one of my favorite cars ever. In its day it was fast as hell, rode and handled great, could seat 4 comfortably and had hatchback utility. I had a BMW 320is and a RWD Maxima before that and it was no contest... the Merkur would eat BMW's and Nissans for lunch.

I would never accept such flaws in an appliance like the Accord.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by eaton53

That's not all, it gets better. XR4ti's had a design flaw in the climate controls so that if the temp dropped below freezing all you would get is cold air. German engineering at its best!!

It would also get stuck in 1" of snow and I had a '78 Chevy K10 4x4 with a really good heater so the Merkur sat in the cold. Good 'ol truck, that Chevy.

Despite that, The Merkur is still one of my favorite cars ever. In its day it was fast as hell, rode and handled great, could seat 4 comfortably and had hatchback utility. I had a BMW 320is and a RWD Maxima before that and it was no contest... the Merkur would eat BMW's and Nissans for lunch.

I would never accept such flaws in an appliance like the Accord.

Still even though you enjoyed that car I would be outraged if it went through 4 transmissions. I can live with minor things breaking, but something like a transmission should last 120k-150k miles IMO.

Thats why I am here, I am fed up with that car and what comes off as "supreme reliability". Thats why I will shop the Malibu and Fusion when the time comes, I believe in the powertrains Ford and GM puts in its modern vehicles, and if those things hold up everything else is minor after what I have experienced with the Accord.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Still even though you enjoyed that car I would be outraged if it went through 4 transmissions. I can live with minor things breaking, but something like a transmission should last 120k-150k miles IMO.

Thats why I am here, I am fed up with that car and what comes off as "supreme reliability". Thats why I will shop the Malibu and Fusion when the time comes, I believe in the powertrains Ford and GM puts in its modern vehicles, and if those things hold up everything else is minor after what I have experienced with the Accord.

It got humorous after awhile.

Fortunately it chucked the whole tranny the 1st time (it was a 5-speed manual) so Ford was on the hook for all of it. I'd show up at the dealer and the service manager would go oh-oh.

I only had to have it towed the first time... the other times I'd have some gears (like 1st and 5th) and was able to drive it in. I knew I didn't have to pay so I wasn't too worked up about it. If I had an Accord costing me up the wazoo I'd be in the showroom throwing things and telling everyone there what a pile it was.

I don't have anything against Ford. I've had a '93 Ranger Splash and a '98 Contour SVT (a great car that was worth good money when I sold it even though I got a nice discount when I bought it) since then that were both very reliable, as were the Montero, Miata and SLS that I had for many years.

You don't have to waste money on overpriced Hondas and Toyotas to get a good car.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by eaton53

It got humorous after awhile.

Fortunately it chucked the whole tranny the 1st time (it was a 5-speed manual) so Ford was on the hook for all of it. I'd show up at the dealer and the service manager would go oh-oh.

I only had to have it towed the first time... the other times I'd have some gears (like 1st and 5th) and was able to drive it in. I knew I didn't have to pay so I wasn't too worked up about it. If I had an Accord costing me up the wazoo I'd be in the showroom throwing things and telling everyone there what a pile it was.

I don't have anything against Ford. I've had a '93 Ranger Splash and a '98 Contour SVT (a great car that was worth good money when I sold it even though I got a nice discount when I bought it) since then that were both very reliable, as were the Montero, Miata and SLS that I had for many years.

You don't have to waste money on overpriced Hondas and Toyotas to get a good car.

I'm glad you were able to laugh, I would thrown a fit if I was you. It just doesn't make sense how a brand new transmission can go right after you had it replaced. With the Accord my father went with them, it wasn't my choice.
He never wanted to buy a Chevy again after his Chevette. He would tell me how bad the brakes were, how the steering sucked, and complained about the alternator constantly dying. He was involved in accidents caused by that cars poor steering, braking, and handling. So you can see why he went to Honda.

He praised them for years but not he is starting to get upset with the Accord. I don't blame him, in the past few years the car seems to go from one problem to the other. It never left us stranded, but it has made our wallets lighter than we expected.

I have sold him on the Malibu and Fusion/Milan, I beleive these cars to be well engineered and as good as the cars from Toyota and Honda. So now why should I put up with the crap that Honda and Toyota sells?

[PA Dweller]

Oh I just wanted to add something to that list I made earlier, the Master Cylinder on the Accord also went last fall. A $420 repair, plus the calipers on the rear wheels need to be fixed since they were stuck.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Oh I just wanted to add something to that list I made earlier, the Master Cylinder on the Accord also went last fall. A $420 repair, plus the calipers on the rear wheels need to be fixed since they were stuck.

Geez...

Actually they rebuilt the trannys. I don't think the guy they had on the job was too good at it.

When they did it the last one the service manager told me they put their "best guy" on it and that did end the problems. It was still going strong after 35K and the car had about 110K on it when I sold it.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

LOL, I enjoy driving too much to hang up my keys. Where I live I need to drive to survive. Anyway what does driving have to do with navigation? Plus why do you hate well equipped cars? In another forum you were upset that they don't make hand crank windows anymore. Why should I have to buy a Cadillac to get features that are optional on cars half the price?

You know what? I am tired of this ****. People defending the faults of cars GM makes. No excuse you can give me will be good enough. This car should have a Standard rear armrest. Not, oh people are getting so lazy, are species are doomed just because they want comfort. If our species is doomed for something stupid like this we would have been dead long ago from more serious issues. Our species survived an ice age I think we will survive an arm rest. I am sorry Saturn69, you’re a smart guy but this is the most retarded thing I ever heard. That’s pure, straight up, bull****. I work with my hands for a living and I am college educated so I don't need to hear I am lazy or stupid for wanting to be comfortable.

This car should have an optional in dash navigation system. Not, oh people can use a map, people can use an on dash solution, people can use On Star, were doomed, etc, etc, etc. Excuses, just offer the damn thing. If you don't want the option don't select it when you order the car.

This car should have standard dual zone automatic climate controls on the LTZ trim. Not oh why do you need A/C? I did fine in my model year 1850 whatever and it didn't have A/C. Not oh why can't you use a dial? Bull**** excuse 3, Bull**** excuse 4, Bull**** excuse 5, etc, etc, etc. Not good enough, the competition offers it and this car should as well. If this feature scares you, or you can't afford it, buy an LT trim. Its very good looking and well equipped.



Yes I been told the Epsilon I platform is limited in what it can do, but that was GM fault because they didn't anticipate future features and only designed the car for that moment.

Wow. Did I hit a nerve? I am not making excuses for GM, that is the answer they gave for the current Epsilon not having a Nav system in the dash (even though it'd kinda, not totally, but kinda, make the millions they spent on OnStar moot). My only beef with it is that it shouldn't be a deal breaker that the car doesn't come with a traditional nav system. Quite a few of the new GM cars/CUV/Trucks have the in-dash Nav systems as options, and I'm sure the new Epsilon II will also. I more concerned with GM raising the quality on their cars before they start adding all the 'must have' items. Why are you pissed at me? I didn't design the damn thing. I just don't see a rear-seat armrest or Nav as to-die-for items that will make or break a sale. I wasn't upset that they don't make hand crank windows, I was arguing that they weigh less than power window systems. My L200 had power everything and I miss that in my Ion, but that's the choice I made. I'm sure my next car will have power windows...they don't 'scare' me. Technology doesn't scare me, just the rabidness of those that deem it necessary to function. The doomed species comment was said tongue-in-cheek, not seriously. Maybe if Nav didn't cost upwards of $2K I'd find it useful, but for as many times as I think I'd use it, I can't justify that price. That's ridiculous. Not to mention the $250 DVD you have to buy every year to update it. OnStar is great, for theft, calling the authorities in an accident, summoning aid...as a Nav system? No, not so much. I get that. I understand, I just don't think it's a necessary thing. Sure, make it an option on the next version, or try to update the current one, but to bash the car for not having the same kind of system that Honda or Toyota does is stupid.

[Saturn69]

Originally Posted by DarkRaider

That is just sheer nonsense, if all your competition can built navi as an option, GM should have had the foresight to have included it in its initial stages. I refuse to accept, well no one is going to pay $2500, well, tell that to accord/maxima/camry. I am confused why it was not included on the G8 as well. It is hard to get back a customer once they go japanese, $hit I am considering a lexus, when I should be thinking CTS, but not sure if CTS will promise a solid car in 6yrs...

As for quality, I am not going to back the 08 malibu until I see long term results, cause I seen 97 model have a lot of issues initially for the first 3yrs, and then it was pretty solid for the next 4.5yrs. And the 2004 malibu, I think more time has been spent dealing with the brakes and steering noise. Was tiresome, given my corolla (2001) model had absolutely no issues and my pontiac G6 GT(except for the steering noise).

I never said no one would pay $2500, I said it's ridiculous to pay $2500 for it, unless you use it everytime you drive, it's a waste of money. Again, the market has told us what we need.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Geez...

Actually they rebuilt the trannys. I don't think the guy they had on the job was too good at it.

When they did it the last one the service manager told me they put their "best guy" on it and that did end the problems. It was still going strong after 35K and the car had about 110K on it when I sold it.

Yea imagine how thrilled my father was when he hit the brake and his foot went all the way to the floor. We actually took it to two mechanics, this happened not too long after we moved up here so we didn't know which mechanic was good.

We noticed the brake felt weird, so we took it to the first mechanic. He said nothing was wrong with it, then when my father needed to use the brake a few weeks later this happened. We took it to the good mechanic and he told us that the rear calipers were stuck and master cylinder needed to be replaced.

It's so important to find a good mechanic to fix your car. Look at your case, you got a moron fixing your transmission and it needed four trips to get it fixed right.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Wow. Did I hit a nerve? I am not making excuses for GM, that is the answer they gave for the current Epsilon not having a Nav system in the dash (even though it'd kinda, not totally, but kinda, make the millions they spent on OnStar moot). My only beef with it is that it shouldn't be a deal breaker that the car doesn't come with a traditional nav system. Quite a few of the new GM cars/CUV/Trucks have the in-dash Nav systems as options, and I'm sure the new Epsilon II will also. I more concerned with GM raising the quality on their cars before they start adding all the 'must have' items. Why are you pissed at me? I didn't design the damn thing. I just don't see a rear-seat armrest or Nav as to-die-for items that will make or break a sale. I wasn't upset that they don't make hand crank windows, I was arguing that they weigh less than power window systems. My L200 had power everything and I miss that in my Ion, but that's the choice I made. I'm sure my next car will have power windows...they don't 'scare' me. Technology doesn't scare me, just the rabidness of those that deem it necessary to function. The doomed species comment was said tongue-in-cheek, not seriously. Maybe if Nav didn't cost upwards of $2K I'd find it useful, but for as many times as I think I'd use it, I can't justify that price. That's ridiculous. Not to mention the $250 DVD you have to buy every year to update it. OnStar is great, for theft, calling the authorities in an accident, summoning aid...as a Nav system? No, not so much. I get that. I understand, I just don't think it's a necessary thing. Sure, make it an option on the next version, or try to update the current one, but to bash the car for not having the same kind of system that Honda or Toyota does is stupid.

Yes, you have hit a nerve. I apologize for erupting like that, I am just tired of hearing stupid excuses from people who don't need or want the system. They try and make an excuse for GM when they make an error. GM screwed up when they designed Epsilon I, they didn't plan ahead now it will be without this option and probably others for the next few years.

The cars I have mentioned had this optional feature for years, and will continue to offer it. While the Malibu won't have this feature until the total redesign in 2012. I probably wouldn't make such a big deal over it but I really want to buy this car next year and I am upset that it lacked a few of the features I expected. Plus their is absolutely no excuse for no rear armrest, I have a 15 year old car that has a rear armrest. The reason I still consider this car even without some of the features I wanted is because its truly a great car. I have seen the car in person and its very impressive.

Technology isn't necessary to the function of this car, but its a nice thing to have. Especially when their are people (Like me) willing to pay for it and when the competition offers it. I used a car with the in dash system for nearly 2 years now, never have we ever updated the disk. Unless the roads change greatly in the next few years we will probably never update the disk while we own the vehicle.

I am concerned with quality as much as you, in all honesty I am a bit worried about how this car will hold up in the long term. For me however as long as I don't have powertrain issues or other issues that prevent me from driving the car I will be very happy. I already posted up a list of problems my Accord had over the years, if I can deal with that I can deal with other minor issues that might pop up. I just don't want any of the issues I come across make the car unable to be driven.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Yea imagine how thrilled my father was when he hit the brake and his foot went all the way to the floor. We actually took it to two mechanics, this happened not too long after we moved up here so we didn't know which mechanic was good.

That happened to me once too... I lost a rear brake cylinder on my '78 Chevy truck. Flat to the floor, no brakes. Yikes!

Fortunately it was a big 'ol 4x4 truck, so I just drove off the road to get out of harms way. Big difference - it cost all of about $10 to fix that truck...

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by eaton53

That happened to me once too... I lost a rear brake cylinder on my '78 Chevy truck. Flat to the floor, no brakes. Yikes!

Fortunately it was a big 'ol 4x4 truck, so I just drove off the road to get out of harms way. Big difference - it cost all of about $10 to fix that truck...

Wow its a good thing you have the space to stop your truck. When this happened to my father only one other person was on the road, he nearly hit this person but had enough room and time to slow the car down safely.