GM's Hummer brand under review for sale or major revamp

[bmlvu97]

A couple questions....how many Hummers does the government purchase on an annual basis? If the number is reasonable, would it make sense for GM to make the Hummer "military only" and only sell to the government (at a reasonable profit margin, of course).

If GM were to totally abandon the Hummer, what other options are there available for military use???

Brian

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

So it's idiotic to make millions of dollars? What planet do you live on?

GM sells a 100 H2s and makes $20,000 on each. $2 million easy money, no questions, right?

Nope.

Most people purchase the same brand they've owned in the past.

5000 young adults see the car as the worst sign of tasteless spending, wastefulness, and arrogance. Instead of buying a combination of Cobalts, Aveos, G5s, and HHRs they purchase Civics, and Corollas, and Focuses (Foci?), and Sentras, and Rabbits. GM only makes maybe $200 on each econobox sale, so at first glance it's no big deal. $2 million profit from Hummer, they only lost 5000x$200 = $1 million, they're still ahead.

But then a few years down the line, those young adults are looking to start families or just move up to nicer vehicles. Instead of getting Malibus, and G6s, and G8s, and Equinox's, and Outlooks, and Auras, and Vues, they get CR-Vs, and Highlanders, and XTerras, and Taurus's, and Flexes, and 300s, and whatever. All of a sudden, that $2 million in profit from 100 Hummer H2 sales is a colossal waste next to $10 million in lost profits because people are turned off by Hummer as the automotive world's single biggest sign of conspicuous consumption.

Image matters. Toyota makes tons of gas guzzlers, but they're using their leadership in the hybrid field to ride a tidal wave of sales. Hummer is GM's anti-Prius, and I would be astonished if Hummer's profits offset losses in other divisions because of the negative image of the division.

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

So it's idiotic to make millions of dollars? What planet do you live on?

It depends on what you make millions of dollars on.

[moman]

Originally Posted by Exploder

Yeah, because Lambo and Ferrari owners never want to show off.

There's a HUGE difference between having the money to buy a Ferrari and showing off, and getting a loan to show off in a Hummer yet be in debt up to your eyeballs trying to convince people you are some kind of dot-com millionaire.

Anyone buying a Ferrari has real money - most buying Hummer have borrowed it from someone else.

Originally Posted by Michael_S

GM sells a 100 H2s and makes $20,000 on each. $2 million easy money, no questions, right?

Nope.

Most people purchase the same brand they've owned in the past.

5000 young adults see the car as the worst sign of tasteless spending, wastefulness, and arrogance. Instead of buying a combination of Cobalts, Aveos, G5s, and HHRs they purchase Civics, and Corollas, and Focuses (Foci?), and Sentras, and Rabbits. GM only makes maybe $200 on each econobox sale, so at first glance it's no big deal. $2 million profit from Hummer, they only lost 5000x$200 = $1 million, they're still ahead.
.....

One of the best posts I have read on GMI in a long time. You exactly describe what is wrong with GM and their strategy of SUVs and trucks. GM isn't even known for their cars anymore. Complete opposite of Toyota.

One positive thing about HUMMERS: When the owners have their suburban homes foreclosed on, at least they can sleep in the back of it.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by moman

Huge difference between Hummer and Ferrari.

One company makes performance cars for those people with the means to buy them and keeps the prices high to limit their market. The other company makes a bunch of poser vehicles bought by people attempting to show off and act like some kind of modern-day Rambos.

This is one of the funniest (read that "retarded") posts I've seen. Let me get this straight... You're saying that Hummer drivers are trying to show off, and people that drive Ferrari's and Lambo's aren't. So they have a legitimate need to drive one of those vehicles? Please explain this to me so that I can figure out a way to legitamize a Lambo to my wife!

This is going to be good!

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

GM sells a 100 H2s and makes $20,000 on each. $2 million easy money, no questions, right?

Nope.

Most people purchase the same brand they've owned in the past.

5000 young adults see the car as the worst sign of tasteless spending, wastefulness, and arrogance. Instead of buying a combination of Cobalts, Aveos, G5s, and HHRs they purchase Civics, and Corollas, and Focuses (Foci?), and Sentras, and Rabbits. GM only makes maybe $200 on each econobox sale, so at first glance it's no big deal. $2 million profit from Hummer, they only lost 5000x$200 = $1 million, they're still ahead.

But then a few years down the line, those young adults are looking to start families or just move up to nicer vehicles. Instead of getting Malibus, and G6s, and G8s, and Equinox's, and Outlooks, and Auras, and Vues, they get CR-Vs, and Highlanders, and XTerras, and Taurus's, and Flexes, and 300s, and whatever. All of a sudden, that $2 million in profit from 100 Hummer H2 sales is a colossal waste next to $10 million in lost profits because people are turned off by Hummer as the automotive world's single biggest sign of conspicuous consumption.

Image matters. Toyota makes tons of gas guzzlers, but they're using their leadership in the hybrid field to ride a tidal wave of sales. Hummer is GM's anti-Prius, and I would be astonished if Hummer's profits offset losses in other divisions because of the negative image of the division.

That's quite a stretch. You're saying that people will buy a different brand than GM in protest of the Hummer? I call MAJOR BS. Show me the data that shows there was a flood of buyers that left GM in 2003 for Toyota and Honda. There isn't any. Most people don't even know that Chevy and GM are owned by the same company.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by moman

There's a HUGE difference between having the money to buy a Ferrari and showing off, and getting a loan to show off in a Hummer yet be in debt up to your eyeballs trying to convince people you are some kind of dot-com millionaire.

Anyone buying a Ferrari has real money - most buying Hummer have borrowed it from someone else.

99.99% of people buy new cars with loans. Another stupid/weak argument.

Judging by all the stereotyping of Hummer owners, there appears to be a lot of jealous people on this forum.

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

This is one of the funniest (read that "retarded") posts I've seen. Let me get this straight... You're saying that Hummer drivers are trying to show off, and people that drive Ferrari's and Lambo's aren't. So they have a legitimate need to drive one of those vehicles? Please explain this to me so that I can figure out a way to legitamize a Lambo to my wife!

This is going to be good!

No one buys a lambo and takes it grocery shopping or to drop off the kids at soccer practice.

Originally Posted by TruckMan

That's quite a stretch. You're saying that people will buy a different brand than GM in protest of the Hummer? I call MAJOR BS. Show me the data that shows there was a flood of buyers that left GM in 2003 for Toyota and Honda. There isn't any. Most people don't even know that Chevy and GM are owned by the same company.

Toyota has no hummer, and they sell no where near the amount of large profitable SUVs as GM but somehow they're doing quite well. Because when people think Toyota, they think "Camry" "corolla" etc... while GM they think "silverado" "tahoe" at a time where "silverado" and "tahoe" are a dying breed.

note the Camry, Corolla, Civic and Accord are the best selling vehicles for the month of may.

[TruckMan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

No one buys a lambo and takes it grocery shopping or to drop off the kids at soccer practice.

So that would mean that the Hummer drivers use their vehicles for more practical things than purely showboating, like the Lambo drivers. That disproves your statement about Hummer drivers only being show-offs.

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

Toyota has no hummer, and they sell no where near the amount of large profitable SUVs as GM but somehow they're doing quite well. Because when people think Toyota, they think "Camry" "corolla" etc... while GM they think "silverado" "tahoe" at a time where "silverado" and "tahoe" are a dying breed.

note the Camry, Corolla, Civic and Accord are the best selling vehicles for the month of may.

Again, GM has been selling Hummers since 2003 or so. That's a lot longer than last month.

I think there are two major reasons Toyota/Honda sells more cars than GM. They've had a reputation (true or not) since the 70's that they have more reliable cars than their US counterparts. And, GM has a lot (not all) of crappy/boring cars for sale.

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

So that would mean that the Hummer drivers use their vehicles for more practical things than purely showboating, like the Lambo drivers. That disproves your statement about Hummer drivers only being show-offs.




Again, GM has been selling Hummers since 2003 or so. That's a lot longer than last month.

I think there are two major reasons Toyota/Honda sells more cars than GM. They've had a reputation (true or not) since the 70's that they have more reliable cars than their US counterparts. And, GM has a lot (not all) of crappy/boring cars for sale.

I never said Hummer drivers show off and lambo drivers don't, I'm just saying that something that gets the equivalent mileage of an exotic supercar is used for practical purposes, and thus is used more often and is thus more harmful.

as for the second point in bold, perhaps had GM invested more in cars than trucks and in buying and maintaining hummer...well you know the rest.

[Slideways]

Originally Posted by lio45

If the Jeep brand can survive, so can HUMMER.

There's no reason to pull the plug on vehicles like H3, H3T and H4. Even "green" Toyota offers similar SUVs. Keep it a niche offroad brand.

This is what I hope can happen. I'm not a big fan of H2s, but I really like H3s. Very capable, decent size, decent mileage (not great mileage, but comparable or better than, say, a Durango, Expedition, and other SUVs its size or larger), and I really like the look of the H3 when done right. I don't see why it can't share the powertrain and platform with the Colorado replacement and eek out a small production run.

Originally Posted by logansowner

Why not sell it instead? I'm sure it's worth something at least..instead of killing it. Although, there was no point to the brand. A Hummer used to be about off road ability, now it's just a jacked up half ton.

Good riddance.

Geez, why such hate? Have you driven an H2 or an H3? They are capable vehicles, I've driven them off road and they're a blast.

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

Good....I found it embarassing as an American that these gas-chugging copies of military vehicles being used in a war of aggression against oil-rich Iraq would in that same time frame enjoy market success...it reinforced the image of us as self-absorbed resource hogs viewing the world as ours to harvest. Good riddance.

[sarcasm] Yep, our war in Iraq was all about oil, hence our influx of oh-so-cheap crude. I bought a tanker just to set on fire for the ambiance. [end sarcasm]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Maybe GM could refresh the Hummer H3 and rebadge it as Chevy, it seems like a real shame to kill off such a great vehicle.

I agree here, I wouldn't mind the Trailblazer or just "Blazer" take over for the H3, as long as there was a short wheelbase version, like the HX. I don't care if it's only a niche.

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

They still need to cut more. All of this nonsense with big pickup trucks, SUVs, and "Hummers" for family usage is ending forever. It really was just a 15 year period of silly behavior by people who should have known better.

They need to build good cars in all sizes, from very small to full sized with large trunks for family and business usage, not try to push outdated or poorly engineered and finished junk. Ever size car, from teh very smallest to the very largest, should be readily available with all of the same fancy features and top quality materials.

Have you been in a GMT900? Do you consider that poorly-finished or poorly-engineered?

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

Hummer just needs to go. GM has enough full size SUV's. Plus they aren't anything exciting.

That's your opinion, but there were swarms of people around the HX at Detroit.

Originally Posted by moman

Huge difference between Hummer and Ferrari.

One company makes performance cars for those people with the means to buy them and keeps the prices high to limit their market. The other company makes a bunch of poser vehicles bought by people attempting to show off and act like some kind of modern-day Rambos.

I'll be happy the day the last Hummer is built - if it's caused by the market and not a shortage of gasoline.

Ok, this has been covered, but wow, what a lame comment. The same thing could be said about Mustangs and Camaros. Nothing but "poser" vehicles. Don't judge people by what vehicle they decide to buy in a free market.

Originally Posted by member12

Since Jeep no longer makes real off roaders (except for the Wrangler), who will make our pure off road trucks?

Did GM really expect these to sell in such large numbers? It's a small market- and it's a way to supplement sales of the existing mid sized and large chassis.

Bingo. I wish there were a way to make a limited run of them and still make money.

Originally Posted by Saturn69

Uh, who cares? Unless you own the land, you can hardly go off-roading anymore anyway. Restore an old Jeep. Build a tube-frame off-roader. Buying a pretentious, luxurious poser vehicle that is used 99% of the time on MTV or sitting in a parking lot in Brentwood is not off roading. It's 'Hey look at me!', nothing more. A real off-roader wouldn't be caught dead in a Hummer. Jeep, International, Willys....they're 'pure. Hummer is a joke. 'Pure' off roaders don't come with leather, A/C and power windows.

Let it die with dignity, don't wait until it's a punch line or there's some website where people diss it....oh, wait it's too late. Kill it, kill it now.

[Sarcasm] Yep, we don't need any 4x4s any more, there's plenty out there. Same goes for V-8s, there's tons of small blocks out there to rebuild. [end sarcasm]
Don't crucify Hummer because they made a vehicle that was latched onto by the MTV generation. Just because a lot of people never take them off road doesn't mean that they can't be thrashed on a trail.

Originally Posted by moman

One positive thing about HUMMERS: When the owners have their suburban homes foreclosed on, at least they can sleep in the back of it.

[sarcasm] Yay! Let's all cheer as our neighbors lose their homes! That's the spirit! Those b@stards deserve it for not buying a Tercel! [end sarcasm]
Again, way to judge someone by the type of car that they drive.

[moman]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

99.99% of people buy new cars with loans. Another stupid/weak argument.

Judging by all the stereotyping of Hummer owners, there appears to be a lot of jealous people on this forum.

I'm going to follow your signature.

Originally Posted by Slideways

[sarcasm] Yay! Let's all cheer as our neighbors lose their homes! That's the spirit! Those b@stards deserve it for not buying a Tercel! [end sarcasm]
Again, way to judge someone by the type of car that they drive.

That's definately not true. I DO NOT want to subsidize those people who made poor financial decisions and got in over their heads, be it via purchasing a house or Hummer.

There is a free market solution to this problem - and that is currently happening in that gas prices are rising causing a shift in cars.

[fan]

Maybe merge Hummer dealers with BPG and sell olny H3 and H4; H2 should be scrapped.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by fan

Maybe merge Hummer dealers with BPG and sell olny H3 and H4; H2 should be scrapped.

My local PBG dealer added a big black "H" to the exterior of their building. They own the Saturn dealer next door and after the Saturn dealers dropped Isuzu, they were a Saturn, SAAB, Hummer dealer for a while, then Hummer moved next door to Pontiac/Buick/GMC.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by TruckMan

That's quite a stretch. You're saying that people will buy a different brand than GM in protest of the Hummer? I call MAJOR BS. Show me the data that shows there was a flood of buyers that left GM in 2003 for Toyota and Honda. There isn't any. Most people don't even know that Chevy and GM are owned by the same company.

Obviously there wasn't a mass exodus from GM products in 2003.

But GM's market share keeps shrinking. It's shrinking because people think other automakers make better cars. And one of the reasons why they think that is because GM makes a 3+ ton SUV with a 9+ second 0-60 mph that gets 8 miles per gallon for $50,000 and still can't off-road like a properly equipped Jeep Wrangler that costs half as much.