GMI's Revitalization in Action | The Dream Pontiac Lineup

[Timekeeper]

Firebird - Nope!
GTO - Nope!
G8 - Sweet!
G6 - Sweet! (looks like a hawk coming in for the kill!)

[KingElvis]

I've been waiting to see your take on Pontiac for a while since the teaser was like 3 months ago. The photoshopping is first rate so congrats on that.

Great: Trans Am - really evokes the '77. I also like the smooth, clean fascia. I like how you rationalized the business case. I agree that this is the kind of car that could slot in as a replacement for the Solstice. Also, to minimize the 'badge engineering' accusation, why not have a standard V8 and the Trans Am would have a bigger engine than the top end Z-28 or SS Camaro? I also like how you limited Pontiac to just two basic chassis. (I thought the Buick Corvette was especially silly and superfluous) - In '65 they only had two basic chassis in the Tempest and full size lines (albeit in varying wheelbases), yet they did great.

Good: G6 and notion of standard turbo 4 to set it apart from the inevitable Chevy version of the chassis - turbo is not cheap though, might be be better to have just a V6 standard on Pontiac and I4 standard on Chevy version. This is the 'bread and butter' car by far. It would also slot in well next to Buicks, which wouldn't have a version of this chassis, so no 'cross shopping' between the two brands.

Bad: GTO. Where did people get this idea that the GTO was an expensive car? The first ones were considered a bargain, not some high priced intermediate. Also I have no idea why the kinked bumper? It doesn't look nearly as good as the T/A, but then you had the Camaro to base it upon. If you're married to the GTO return, why does it need to have a special body either? The idea of a luxury high price and unique body are aberrant characteristics that only the 'orphan' 21st Century model had. Why not just a Firebird, Trans Am and GTO as models on one body?

Huh?: Why do you think it makes sense to import a Holden sedan? They export to much higher end markets. Also, why steal Buick's thunder, which would center around a mid/premium sedan, with a $35G Pontiac sedan? Also, why distinguish between a 'zeta' chassis and Camaro one - isn't it just a shortened version of 'zeta'?

Verdict: Preponderance of two doors at B/P/G dealerships will sink it. The market for two doors is shrinking by the minute, and even with a "build it and they will come" attitude, aren't two distinct two doors at a B/P/G dealer enough? Especially vexing is the idea of two high end "zeta" cars: the GTO selling right by a similar Velite-ish Buick. Since we're told Buick and Pontiac are sorta/kinda blending into one unit, perhaps you could have Pontiac with all two doors. Maybe Pontiac could have all ohv V8s as a calling card, while Buick had all DOHC V6s. Also, things are shaping up a little on the upscale side.

Free advice: I think the chops are pretty creative and well executed, but these ideas aren't very "out of the box." No crossovers? How about a unique kind of vehicle like a two door street machine wagon? The most interesting thing in this line is the 4x4 G6 - how about a sorta Subaru WRX G6 rally car or Forester kinda G6 wagon?

Maybe it's because the Buick thing was out of the blue and a pleasant surprise I'm judging these more harshly, i.e. the 'sophomore curse.' You could dump three of the Buicks and two of these (the GTO and G8) and still have decent choice of price and size at B/P/G dealer.

UPDATE:

I did look back at the Buick lineup, and noticed that there the Wildcat only looked like a two door, but very similar to the Roadmaster two door (which shares nothing with the RM sedan).

Also you had a Buick crossover, and I see you later added a Lacross Wagon, so you're covered there.

[smokyn454]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

I prefer more subdued lines. Less is more. Soothing lines. Warm lines.

Do ya? Go buy a Toyota then.

I currently own a G6 and it gets confused all the time for some other brand. I am glad they made these look like they do. I hate not being able to tell what kind of car is coming at you or parked next to you. At least if you own one of these, your car does not look like every other car out there besides a little emblem on the grill. Damn near every car out there has soothing subdued lines.

I especially love the G6, not really sure why they want a Firebird and a GTO?

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Originally Posted by smokyn454

Do ya? Go buy a Toyota then.

I currently own a G6 and it gets confused all the time for some other brand. I am glad they made these look like they do. I hate not being able to tell what kind of car is coming at you or parked next to you. At least if you own one of these, your car does not look like every other car out there besides a little emblem on the grill. Damn near every car out there has soothing subdued lines.

I especially love the G6, not really sure why they want a Firebird and a GTO?

You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm talking about "design". The Camaro was "designed". You need to go look at some of my previous posts. I've been real consistent on this theme.

Toyota is bland. Honda is bland. I'm not talking about bland. I'm talking about "subtle heritage" design cues. Not blatant like the current Mustang. But more subtle. A fender curve here. A roofline there.

I believe the key to GM's success lies in their past. I'm not talking about grasping at something from some bygone era. But to refurbish and "dust-off" lines from the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and ealy 1970s and wrap them in 21st century blue-steel.

I've been real consistent on this theme, and have stayed on message with it.

Of those listed in this thread, I find the GTO to be the most appealing.

[ChevroletRevived]

We didn't include crossovers or a more broad lineup because BPG is supposed to be a full line brand, individual brands in the channel are not. They are supposed to be focused.

[ChevroletRevived]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

G8: This is just downright a photochop of the current Grand Prix. Nothing new.

Look again or get glasses, it's based on a Holden. Hey, nobody said everybody would like it. Controversy is good! Excitement.

[voltar]

Hmmm.. 6spd Manual should be available in GTO and in Firebird. In addition GTo and Firebird slightly redundant. GTO would need to go further above Firebird as luxury sports car. Besides shouldn't Firebird porbably be a Camaro clone... and I would hope would boast an LS2

[KingElvis]

Fbody revived and Chevrolet Revived:

I've read every single goldarn post on this thread and there's some familiar themes that pop up:

1. Photochopping quality is great (only 2 dissenters)

2. G8 too expensive (even an Aussie poster mentioned that Holden wouldn't export the G8)

3. Solstice missing!

4. Kinky GTO fascia 'polarising' - about equal volume of love and hate

5. Large majority speaks the truth: choose either GTO or T/A body and/or make GTO an option package, not a unique body.

[lakota]

Overall I like..
Firebird: looks pretty good but a bit heavy in the nose.

GTO: It should be a bit larger than the Camaro/Firebird to give interior and trunk space.
The creases in the bumper look odd to me. Would like it smoothed out.

G8: One of the better looking ‘Holden’ Pontiacs I’ve seen.

G6: Nice ‘Evolution’ of the current model. I like it. But will they screw it up for production. After seeing the first concept G6 the production version was a let down.

Pricing would have to be watched very closely. Pontiac could easily price itself out of reach of those that would want the brand. Your G8 looks nice but not for the 38-48K dollar range.

[toronadoGT]

Given how thorough C&G's Chevelle Project is, I think you guys should just throw in the towel if they decide to do something like that again.

I'm not kidding. I sat down and really read your descriptions and powertrain options -- they all felt like afterthoughts, like you just wanted to design a few cars and let that be it.

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Originally Posted by ChevroletRevived

Look again or get glasses, it's based on a Holden. Hey, nobody said everybody would like it. Controversy is good! Excitement.

You're saying it's based off the Holden, but it looks like a Grand Prix. Same grille Same headlight assembly.

The materials don't even look like the G6. Which I think is a very well executed product. I think the G8 should continue upon the G6 themes.

[KingElvis]

Toronado: I disagree. These are all fresher and much more varied designs.

Don't get me wrong, I liked reading all the myriad descriptions of models - l love doing this sort of thing myself. I liked the idea of illustrating an "xtreme" budget Chevelle and so forth, but the C&G Chevelle project got overblown. They started creating a zillion different cars all with the same basic styling - they had a 'crossover' 4x4 wagon etc but all with the same front clip. The made a classic rookie design mistake: they got married to one look and ran amok with it - even 2 years later, it looks quite dated and wasn't all that striking to begin with.

There are rare exceptions (like the multiple bodied G6), but for the most part cars are getting to be more 'niche' oriented, so that you only have a sedan "series" of the Impala, not a wagon, a 'ute' a coupe, a 'crossover' etc.

Also the engines were ridiculously implausible - a 427cid Chevelle? Gimmee a break - what does Cadillac do if Chevy has a 500hp bread 'n butter car?

I had plenty of criticism for this round, but at least they tried offering distinct different designs - and if CandG had done the whole lineup it would be different, but so far as I know, it's just the Chevelle and its practically infinite variants - not the whole lineup.

[jwvrod]

You guy’s did a good job. I couldn't do that on my best day.

Now, if my opinion would be asked, I would say Pontiac should not give up on the Solstice. Small cars are starting to make a comeback. The Solstice is proving to be an asset. As for the Firebird, it’s overkill. Pontiac and Chevy need to quit competing for the same customers. Keep the GTO. The only problem is it looks like Mitsubishi did the hood and nose. As far as the G8, not just no but hell no. It’s the same look that is not selling now. Why keep the same look of failure? It needs to be bolder and more intriguing. And finally the G6, undecided.

[stevecmh]

I really love the G8 and the G6... I like the turn signal lights behind the grill...

Not sure about the the GTO or the Firebird though

[FBODYRULES]

Originally Posted by KingElvis

Fbody revived and Chevrolet Revived:

I've read every single goldarn post on this thread and there's some familiar themes that pop up:

1. Photochopping quality is great (only 2 dissenters)

2. G8 too expensive (even an Aussie poster mentioned that Holden wouldn't export the G8)

3. Solstice missing!

4. Kinky GTO fascia 'polarising' - about equal volume of love and hate

5. Large majority speaks the truth: choose either GTO or T/A body and/or make GTO an option package, not a unique body.

the two PS dissenters are going to be addressed/fixed.
I love the GTO's reactions, but heyI don't think every one loved the 69-71's either so thats ok.
i think if pontiac were to make a whole new range of products they would have the same kind of reaction, some loved, some not, just cos they are different and more daring/striking than the average car,
as proven in the past with their models like the sunfire etc