GMI Exclusive: Saturn May Go To BPG, Why Aura ≠ Insignia

[4gm]

Originally Posted by The Law

they are too much the same atleast right now,it would be like putting Chevy with Pontiac.i could see Chevy-Saturn-Caddy ; Buick-Saab-Caddy or Saturn,Pontiac (if Asian styled),GMC.If GM sells Hummer than GMC need to be Jeep.

That's why I mentioned I would change Saturn to subcompact to midsize vehicles. Entry level is where they were successful. I'd go back to that and just put a Euro/VW twist on styling and appeal. Saab could take more premium midsize and up.

[The Law]

Originally Posted by 4gm

That's why I mentioned I would change Saturn to subcompact to midsize vehicles. Entry level is where they were successful. I'd go back to that and just put a Euro/VW twist on styling and appeal. Saab could take more premium midsize and up.

Saturn could be Gm's VW and Saab Gm's Audi, but I don't think in America they should be at the same dealer b/c Americans will always buy the least priced one Wal mart is a prime example of that.i would totally different style brands models in the same class and price or slightly increasing but styled differently not to overlap or compete against each other.That's why i feel BPG works now and Saab,Caddy and hummer does.the main reason why these aren't selling great is because of brand image and available models(lack of): Buick,Saab.lacks marketing Saturn.Saturn needs some Euro funny ones like VW has a few years back, something where people remember them.

[obriend]

Originally Posted by CadiEldo67

1. True, but if Saturn was arranged in such a fashion as to be just small cars, with Pontiac having larger rwd cars, and buick having larger fwd cars, there would be absolutely no overlap, and the dealers aren't selling just niche products.

2. I think it has everything to do with marketing, you can build a car, but you can't make people buy it...enter the Saturn Astra

3. Cost, the dollar to euro ratio is too great for GM to even dream of a profit. People want a good car, and if they are only looking to the brand, then sadly they are missing out. GM needs to improve its impressions of its brands, and built excellent cars across the board, Chevy needs to draw on the Corvette and Camaro for inspiration. While Pontiac does something completely different, and has a slightly different theme for each vehicle, rather than the "same sausage different cut" BMW styling. Similar styling is good, identical styling between a brand is kind of stupid, works for some more than others.

And my last pet peeve, is determining what the competition is for each brand. Ok, its a starting point, but lets not focus on the competition, lets not benchmark the competition, lets be the benchmark. Lets build a car for what the car should be, and lets not worry about what its stealing sales from.

3. That's why i said BUILD them in the U.S. And people do want a good car, sadly, GM has not been able to provide them over the last 30 years (until recently). People have a long memory when it comes to bad cars - Saturn is the one GM brand (besides GMC) that isn't saddled with that baggage.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by The Law

You have some great ideas but Buick couldn't be Opel because of the Chinese- global marketing.Opel as Saturn does change much as brand id b/c Opel is Vauxhall & Holden in there markets.Gm NA has too many brands fighting for the same consumer.Move Buick(Asian styling) up to CBS and bring in Saturn to GPS.I believe this may already be in the work as news about Saab going smaller which is pretty much a different Opel-Saturn,If they keep that same Idea I would have Pontiac go smaller and Saturn larger than you don't have any of those 4 brands competing for sales.Gm will mostly like Keep Saturn smaller and Pontiac above.Chevy's are just Gm-Daewoo's anymore aside from Camaro and 'Vette.Which keeps the dealers happy.

Buick and Pontiac should be Opel in the U.S. from Delta up and GM only sells the Gamma and Delta lines in China so Opel would compliment Buick in China by offering the Insignia 4d and 5D Sedan there. Buick would have the Regal Coupe and Estate (Epsilon SWB) and Invicta Sedan (Epsilon LWB) as it would in the U.S.

The only Epslilon SWB 4D Sedan in the U.S. would be the Malibu as the next 9-3 is supposed to go to the Delta and Chevy could offer the 5-Door as the new Malibu MAXX.

This plays out into 3 sales channels
Chevrolet - Saturn (Scion)
Buick - Pontiac - GMC
SAAB (Audi) - Cadillac

In Europe
Chevrolet (Malibu replaces Epica)
Opel - Vauxhall - GMC
SAAB-Cadillac

China
Chevrolet
Buick - Opel - GMC
SAAB-Cadillac

Australia
Holden (Best of Opel line - mfg'd by GMDAT) - GMC
SAAB
Cadillac

GMC will replace HUMMER with a lineup of competitors for Jeep Wrangler (H4) and Grand Cherokee (Alpha SUV) as well as Land Rover LR3 (H3) and Range Rover (Zeta SUV).

Sierra trucks (where full-size trucks are offered), where Full size trucks are not offered and as a compliment to Sierra in U.S. the Denali Concept will be offered as a Ridgeline competitor with the RWD base allowing 2wd version for better MPG.

There would be other FWD/AWD GMC models in a Jeep Patriot sized CUV and the upcoming Terrain. GMC can also offer some other interesting models and would be GM's Global truck/SUV brand since it can be offered with a variety of brands.

[tfb2]

"sales are still up, so they are content at the moment."

Isn't that one of the big reasons that got us in the mess the American Automobile Industry is in now? Don't improve the product - the dummies are buying it now - until they start buying the improved Japanese cars.

[garyp]

Saturn is one good small car away from being GM's second-highest volume franchise with its existing retail network of just 450 stores. The BPG channel "stratragedy" has been an on-going nightmare for a decade. Throwing another brand in the mix this late in the game would be an unmitigated disaster. Saturn is the one GM brand that isn't over-dealered. Why would they mess with that? Are there some small-mid markets Saturn should be in that they're not? Maybe, but they don't need to be in every po-dunk mom-and-pop GM/JohnDeere/ArctiCat store in rural America. Given the common engineering its probably time to let GM stores service Saturns (and vice versa) as a way to get a little more penetration in the rural markets without creating an environment where your brand value is diminished by cut-throat same-brand dealer competition.

Please, GM, give Saturn the small car they've been waiting on since the S-series went away. The ION wasn't it and the hatch-back-only, Euro-eccentric, exchange-rate-strangled Belgian-built Astra certainly isn't it. Then give them the Insignia as originally planned. De-content it if you must to keep it price-competitive here (mid-sedan is a premium segment in Europe but a value segment here) , but don't change the sheet metal. Replace the Outlook with a 7-passenger VUE (Outlook is absolutely too much like the Acadia/Traverse, VUE line has the capacity), let the Sky go away when the current life-cycle has run its course, and you've got essentially a 3-product portfolio that should yield 400,000+ sales per year.

If you can't figure out how to make money off a franchise that sells 400,000 units a year out of 450 stores then you'll never figure out how to make money in this market. Especially when the development cost of the platforms and drivetrains is shared with multiple other brands.

[darnell89]

What has my company done???? SATURN is becoming a big disaster. I hope SATURN isn't going down like Oldsmobile. You now I could see if SATURN was still doing the unique cars, with the dent-resistance doors. It would be a different story. Why put same vehicles at the same lot to sell it is stupid. GM vehicle all look the same especially in the Chevy, Pontiac, SATURN, Cadillac, & GMC. Saab is really the only vehicle that is different, and didn't do what SATURN has done.

[godsthere]

its too much, they all want to be something better. But less is more, keep saturn the way it is

[Geotpf]

This makes much less sense than eliminating Saturn completely. One of the few things Saturn succeeded at was the dealer culture. Jamming them in with an old school BPG dealer will be a disaster.

[boblutzfan]

Buick has more history and for the moment better brand recognition thanks to the Enclave which is selling much better than the Outlook - at higher prices to boot! The new Lacrosse replacement looks very nice and will generate better sales than the Aura - based on the supperior brand image thanks to the Enclave and Tiger Woods ad campaign.

If I was making the call today...I would ditch the Saturn brand - take the VUE to GMC as the Terrain and bring the next Saturn Sky to Buick as a Riviera or Reatta convertible. Let Chevy have the entry level sedan (Astra) replacement.

Saturn = Dead

Buick:
Enclave (replace outlook completely)
LuCerne = Dead
LaCrosse (replaced by EPII sedan)
Rivierra (second generation Sky convertible - go high end especially on the interior while Solstice remains affordable performance)

[alian]

Don't see this happening though I could see Saturn added to smaller market Buick GMC dealers to expand the dealer network. That would make sense.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by boblutzfan

Buick has more history and for the moment better brand recognition thanks to the Enclave which is selling much better than the Outlook - at higher prices to boot! The new Lacrosse replacement looks very nice and will generate better sales than the Aura - based on the supperior brand image thanks to the Enclave and Tiger Woods ad campaign.

If I was making the call today...I would ditch the Saturn brand - take the VUE to GMC as the Terrain and bring the next Saturn Sky to Buick as a Riviera or Reatta convertible. Let Chevy have the entry level sedan (Astra) replacement.

Saturn = Dead

Buick:
Enclave (replace outlook completely)
LuCerne = Dead
LaCrosse (replaced by EPII sedan)
Rivierra (second generation Sky convertible - go high end especially on the interior while Solstice remains affordable performance)

Why are you killing Buick's large sedan in this scenario?

[abby3641]

Originally Posted by desmo9

Saturn's run by bumbling baffoon's, and Jill should have been axed a decade ago. More models? More dealers? With GMC and Pontiac????

15 years ago, the Saturn brand, with one small car, sold more volume than they sell collectively now, with all 4 products. Imagine if they held the line with an exclusive dealer network and the homestyle 8-to-80 appeal of the car and brand. Then, made the S-series better and better until it was the equal of the Honda Civic today, only less Buck Rogers on the inside. Such a car, just one development and marketing cover, would sell 500K units a year -- with a handful of dealers and a small, one-model investment, Saturn would be outselling about every GM brand but Chevy.

But they turned it into a me-too, somewhere between Pontiac and Chevy and Opel ... and it's become an irrelevant also-ran. They deprived the S-series of updates, they botched the Ion with cheapness and a senseless center-instrument gimmick that attracted one new buyer to every ten lost -- and then in their most utter cluelessness thought the sales were lost because Saturn folk wanted to buy bigger sedans, large GMC-cloned CUVs and stale Euro hatchbacks.

When all the while, the market for a stellar small car is as big as it ever was, and all people really wanted was a small car that wasn't goofy and kept up with the current decade.

So send Saturn to the heap with Jill, Bob, Rick, and any other dimwit that's taken Saturn and GM down the tubes. May the S-series rest in peace.

WELCOME BACK DEAN!!!! HOWS VERMONT TREATING YOU???
Heard you left DELPHI....
Hows Goodrich??

[AndrewGS]

Originally Posted by abby3641

WELCOME BACK DEAN!!!! HOWS VERMONT TREATING YOU???
Heard you left DELPHI....
Hows Goodrich??

What are you talking about?

He's completely right, BTW. They had a great idea, started it up successfully then proceeded to **** it in the ass.

[will0123]

In order to boost dealership count and marketing dollars, GM is looking to move Saturn into the same showroom that the Buick-Pontiac- GMC dealerships are utilizing.
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