GMI Exclusive: GM Planning Line of Small Crossovers/Rumors Debunked

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by nsap

GMI Exclusive: GM Planning Line of Small Crossovers/Rumors Debunked

The Gamma II platform is the underpinning of the next-generation Aveo and other sub-compact cars within GM. That platform is said to host a line of three new crossovers within the next few years. It is said that the three will be sized similar to the Nissan Rogue and Hyundai Tucson. At the moment Chevrolet, Opel and Saturn are slated to get one.

First to arrive will be the Chevrolet model. It is said to arrive in late 2011. As GMI reported yesterday, the next-generation Equinox crossover is moving up in size, so it only makes sense to add a smaller crossover to compete with the Rogue. The Opel model is also suppose to arrive in the same time frame. The Saturn model will come to market sometime in 2012.

Obviously these products are a few years down the road, but at the moment they are still on. With all of the product shake-ups that are happening within GM right now, it is anyone's guess as to whether these three products will not get cut. There was talk a couple years ago that GM was planning a line of "sub-Theta" crossovers on a smaller version of the Theta platform, but those products were killed in development. These have apparently taken their place.

At the moment it sounds like they will be built at the Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant.

* Epsilon II Saturn Aura: As GMI reported weeks ago, the development on the program has been halted. We're hearing that it was due to a lack of resources for the car. So the current Aura is going to stay on "at least an additional year." For some reason we are not convinced that we have heard the entire story on the Aura saga, so STAY TUNED.

To me GM should only offer the Saturn Crossover here and sell the Chevrolet version ROW (rest of world) as other markets would get the planned Chevrolet and Opel models.

The same for the "next Aveo", before all of the Chevy lovers get excited - hear me out.

Saturn will only sell GAMMA platform vehicles in Chevrolet dealers in a "Scion-like" deal like Toyota does.

Why?

GM needs to find a "spot" for Saturn and what better one than the one Saturn started with - small efficient cars.

GM has to create an image of making efficient vehicles and by only offering one "type" vehicle under one brand it simplifies the message and make it easier for the public to understand.

Chevy has too many models; again this overabundance of "choice" is confusing to the buying public who really do not understand what makes an Aveo different than a Cobalt/Cruze.

Putting Saturn with Chevy allow's GM to "drop" the next Aveo (and G3), but keep it as an option for Chevy sales reps to "sell" to buyers they cannot sell a Cobalt/Cruze to.

Giving GAMMA to Saturn enables GM to do what Toyota does with Scion - market it as "different" and package it so the dealer can "customize" it to individual needs (raising margins).

GM can then focus on selling Delta and up models as Chevrolets, Buicks and SAAB's eliminating one brand from the Delta and Epsilon mix and boosting volumes for models it does offer. (Pontiac, GMC and Cadillac get Alpha and Zeta as "primary" platforms and the next Sky can be derived from the current Tigra but with better engines and the more aggressive Sky styling).

[JBsZ06]

GM needs a strong Chevy and cadillac brand lineup.

Buick Pontiac and GMC dealers need to combine with saturn...

Effectively GM would have

Cadillac dealers
Chevy dealers
Buick, pontiac, GMC and saturn dealerships..

Saab and Hummer can go away, either sold or let dry on the vine.

GM needs the Beat group of vehicles FAST. IMO

Those were three cool little vehicles.

make em fast, make em cool, make em inexpensive.

That should be a GM priority.

JMO

[AMcA]

Originally Posted by tirediron

nsap- I really do respect your opinion, as a not-a-long-timer here, why is everything GM is coming out with geared as a Chevy? Dont get me wrong, I grew up in Flint, so my dad, Grandpa, etc all worked there, but why isnt anything besides a useless El Camino G8 Truck thing, gonna be noted as a Pontiac, or a "BPG" and all tagged as Chevy? Just curious, seriously.

Because Chevrolet, unlike B, P or G, is a good strong franchise. Robbing Chevrolet to try to keep the others afloat would be a big mistake. GM needs at least one strong division in North America.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by JBsZ06

GM needs a strong Chevy and cadillac brand lineup.

Buick Pontiac and GMC dealers need to combine with saturn...

Effectively GM would have

Cadillac dealers
Chevy dealers
Buick, pontiac, GMC and saturn dealerships..

Saab and Hummer can go away, either sold or let dry on the vine.

GM needs the Beat group of vehicles FAST. IMO

Those were three cool little vehicles.

make em fast, make em cool, make em inexpensive.

That should be a GM priority.

JMO

Chevy has too many models.

GM needs to get a clear message that it makes high MPG cars and need a separate brand to do it with.

You cannot get a public that over 50% of will not even consider your cars to believe Chevy is the "MPG Brand" when there are Camaro and Corvettes in the showroom.

Chevy needs to be Chevy again - a fun car with great styling and performance at a reasonable price, that is what Chevy was and its small cars like the Cruze need to push that theme, not an "Economy Car" one.

[T'Cal]

I want a Nomad! What happened to that prototype? Sporty looks, good utility, great fuel economy, cool styling. It had it all.

[Jim Altemus]

Originally Posted by F14CRAZY

GM's betting all they've got on crossovers when the market isn't THAT large for them and they have enough already

Originally Posted by lam

You have no idea what you're typing about.

I actually agree with F14CRAZY on this. I think the crossover market is a U.S. only phenomenon, has peaked and by the time GM gets all these different crossovers developed and to market the market will have moved on. With limited (and shrinking) resources GM should be focused on CARS that can be used in as many markets as possible with as few changes as possible and a little duplication between brands as possible.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Jim Altemus

I actually agree with F14CRAZY on this. I think the crossover market is a U.S. only phenomenon, has peaked and by the time GM gets all these different crossovers developed and to market the market will have moved on. With limited (and shrinking) resources GM should be focused on CARS that can be used in as many markets as possible with as few changes as possible and a little duplication between brands as possible.

You really think all the former SUV drivers want to go from a Tahoe to an Aveo? Crossovers get very good gas mileage while not skimping on things like room and ride height. Once DI is added to the Lambda's they will probably get 25 MPG highway which is impressive for a vehicle that can hold 8 people comfortably. So no, crossovers are here to stay.

[Jim Altemus]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

You really think all the former SUV drivers want to go from a Tahoe to an Aveo? Crossovers get very good gas mileage while not skimping on things like room and ride height. Once DI is added to the Lambda's they will probably get 25 MPG highway which is impressive for a vehicle that can hold 8 people comfortably. So no, crossovers are here to stay.

A Tahoe to an Aveo is a bit extreme, no? GM should have introduced all the crossovers they were going to introduce 3-5 years ago. Crossovers are a transitional body style and I'm concerned that GM will go all-in with them while buyers (and GM's competitors) have already adjusted to cars and station wagons.

There always was and there will always be a market for body on frame SUVs and crossovers, only now those markets are going to be the niches they once were for the original Suburban and Blazer.

- Jim

[Jim Altemus]

And the number seem to support my and F14CRAZY's thoughts on this...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bla...sales-down-11/

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Jim Altemus

A Tahoe to an Aveo is a bit extreme, no? GM should have introduced all the crossovers they were going to introduce 3-5 years ago. Crossovers are a transitional body style and I'm concerned that GM will go all-in with them while buyers (and GM's competitors) have already adjusted to cars and station wagons.

There always was and there will always be a market for body on frame SUVs and crossovers, only now those markets are going to be the niches they once were for the original Suburban and Blazer.

- Jim

Yes I know, but it sounds like your suggesting that everytime someone buys a new vehicle they will downgrade to a smaller and smaller vehicle. I just don't see it happening, people love large vehicles. I don't know about station wagons either, when was the last time anyone made a station wagon? About 12 years ago? What I would like to see is another Buick Roadmaster.

Maybe traditional suv's will largely disappear, but people will continue to buy crossovers like the Saturn Vue and Buick Enclave since they like the fuel economy these vehicles offer while keeping the traits everyone loves of suv's. I said it a million times, if they added a 2-Mode system to these vehicles they would get close if not 30 MPG combined. I don't know what crossover GM has thats body on frame, but most of GM's crossovers are uni-body. Which is the future for most owners.

If your point is that only a few people will own BOF SUV's in the future I agree, if you believe that crossovers will disappear and people will go back to buying station wagons and cars I disagree.

Originally Posted by Jim Altemus

And the number seem to support my and F14CRAZY's thoughts on this...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bla...sales-down-11/

Do you see how bad the economy currently is? Of course less people are going to buy CUV's. When the economy picks up again people will buy them again.

[Jim Altemus]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

Yes I know, but it sounds like your suggesting that everytime someone buys a new vehicle they will downgrade to a smaller and smaller vehicle. I just don't see it happening, people love large vehicles. I don't know about station wagons either, when was the last time anyone made a station wagon? About 12 years ago? What I would like to see is another Buick Roadmaster.

Maybe traditional suv's will largely disappear, but people will continue to buy crossovers like the Saturn Vue and Buick Enclave since they like the fuel economy these vehicles offer while keeping the traits everyone loves of suv's. I said it a million times, if they added a 2-Mode system to these vehicles they would get close if not 30 MPG combined. I don't know what crossover GM has thats body on frame, but most of GM's crossovers are uni-body. Which is the future for most owners.

If your point is that only a few people will own BOF SUV's in the future I agree, if you believe that crossovers will disappear and people will go back to buying station wagons and cars I disagree.



Do you see how bad the economy currently is? Of course less people are going to buy CUV's. When the economy picks up again people will buy them again.

CUV sales aren't as dependent on the economy as they are on gas prices. The only thing that will create demand for CUV's is cheaper gas. Most people buy on emotion, not on logic; buying what they feel they need rather than what they actually works best for their situation (this is something that confounds me, but I've learned to accept). In the same way people bought SUVs en masse because they were perceived to be safer, people are going to shun vehicles they perceive to be inefficient, such as SUV's and CUV's.

I think it would be wildly optimistic to see (relatively) cheap gas anytime soon, and therefore not a good use of limited financial resources to develop vehicles that are in a market this is going to continue to shrink.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by Jim Altemus

CUV sales aren't as dependent on the economy as they are on gas prices. The only thing that will create demand for CUV's is cheaper gas. Most people buy on emotion, not on logic; buying what they feel they need rather than what they actually works best for their situation (this is something that confounds me, but I've learned to accept). In the same way people bought SUVs en masse because they were perceived to be safer, people are going to shun vehicles they perceive to be inefficient, such as SUV's and CUV's.

I think it would be wildly optimistic to see (relatively) cheap gas anytime soon, and therefore not a good use of limited financial resources to develop vehicles that are in a market this is going to continue to shrink.

If you don't have the money to buy a CUV how do you buy a CUV? Also, the fuel economy of crossovers is going up. When the Acadia, Enclave, and Traverse get DI the fuel economy will be around 25 MPG. Unless gas goes well past $7 a gallon any time soon I just don't see CUV's going anywhere. Even now I see on average 6-10 new Tahoe's on the road a day with high fuel prices.

This is IMO, I am no expert and I might be wrong. This is just how I see it.

[osv_alero]

Originally Posted by schmallz

What exactly makes the Aura sporty? Or what makes it sportier than the Malibu?

I've driven both (parents own the Malibu). The Malibu is MUCH nicer than the Aura along with being "sportier". The only thing "sporty" about the Aura is the amount of road noise produced.

[Jim Altemus]

Originally Posted by PA Dweller

If you don't have the money to buy a CUV how do you buy a CUV? Also, the fuel economy of crossovers is going up. When the Acadia, Enclave, and Traverse get DI the fuel economy will be around 25 MPG. Unless gas goes well past $7 a gallon any time soon I just don't see CUV's going anywhere. Even now I see on average 6-10 new Tahoe's on the road a day with high fuel prices.

This is IMO, I am no expert and I might be wrong. This is just how I see it.

25 MPG isn't going to sell many vehicles. Believe it or not, people are downsizing. You'll see new Tahoes because the dealers are practically giving them away (I've heard that Dodge dealers are offering '08 Rams for 40% off invoice!)

Going back to my earlier statement about people buying emotionally instead of logically. Despite the fact that the fuel economy isn't as good as it could be for its size, there is a waiting list for the Smart car. Same for the Prius (neat idea, but a false economy). Small cars are selling. Big cars and SUVs/CUVs aren't in fashion now and won't be any time soon.

[Corsair]

That means the link to Korea is difficult?