GM Oct. Sales up 4%, Gains Market Share

[Speedjerk]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

Lots of talk on here over the years about how Americans have no loyalty in their car buying decisions.

But I can't help wonder if the financial crisis has not made quite a few Americans realise that their own jobs are made stronger by supporting American jobs, at least enough to make them go visit a Ford or GM showroom that they may not have done before.

And this has let the product sell itself on merit....

It would be interesting if they collected monthly figures on showroom visits.

There's that old way of thinking again. You can not sell cars alone on "entitlement" -- not in a global economy. Buyers must like and respect the product and service, before and after the sale. Besides, more and more foreign owned auto makes are manufacturing their parts and automobiles here in the USA. As the dollar continues to tank, this will be the norm.

[jtrav91]

Uncertain still what the deal is with the topic of hybrids. Here are just the facts:

Toyota = 18,757

Ford = 2,282

Honda = 1,978

GM = 1,159

Nissan = 299

[70W30]

Hybrids are a niche.

Who cares?

10 years down the road it might be a different story. Right now no one cares other than tree huggers.

[70W30]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

F-series vs Silverado - you forgot to mention the Sierra. Silverado/Sierra combined put GM at 43,648...about like it has always been with GM selling more trucks. Nothing to make Ford look good here.

What you and everyone else needing to understand is this...

When Ford says they are the number one truck... They say this or that...

The Silverado, by ITSELF generally outsells the F150. No need to bring in the Sierra. Ford smokes us on the HD's.

Thing is, they say in the ads that the F series is the number one selling truck. Good advertising, but the F150 has not outsold the 1/2 ton Silvy (comparable truck) for quite some time. People equate F series with the F150.

Like I said, advertising.

Don't get me wrong. GM and Ford own the truck market. I just kinda laugh at Ford's claims.

GM sells a LOT more trucks than Ford does.

[Klay]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

I don't see how my list was incomplete in any way. I compared the performance of relatively new vehicles. The list you made however.....

Focus vs Cobalt - yeah, I give this one to Ford all day.

Mustang vs Camaro - I don't see how the new Mustang not having new engines is equivalent to the Malibu not having a hybrid version. Besides, the Camaro doesn't have a convertible option or a high performance option. Camaro takes the win in a landslide.

F-series vs Silverado - you forgot to mention the Sierra. Silverado/Sierra combined put GM at 43,648...about like it has always been with GM selling more trucks. Nothing to make Ford look good here.

Nox vs Escape - 'Nox sales are production limited. When GM adds a 3rd shift, expect the gap to close. The 'Nox is another vehicle that lacks a hybrid version compared to its Ford competitor.

Your list was incomplete because you cherry picked comparisons that make GM look more favorable to Ford which, is a bit deceptive. As far as the mustang/camaro comparison, I think it is pretty similar logic to one you used to compare the fusion and malibu. Who says that a malibu would sell more than the fusion even WITH a hybrid mode? You were trying to make it seem malibu would sell as much or more if it did have one.

Ford fans do the same with the engines coming due for the mustang. They say it will sell the same or more once they make there way into the mustang. Stupid reasoning on both sides if you ask me. It is better to just state the numbers without commentary.

I'll concede the silverado+sierra sells more then F-series BUT if you are going to do that you have to combine fusion/milan/mkz sales as well which, makes the comparion more lopsided to Ford.

[jzchev28]

Originally Posted by Klay

Your list was incomplete because you cherry picked comparisons that make GM look more favorable to Ford which, is a bit deceptive. As far as the mustang/camaro comparison, I think it is pretty similar logic to one you used to compare the fusion and malibu. Who says that a malibu would sell more than the fusion even WITH a hybrid mode? You were trying to make it seem malibu would sell as much or more if it did have one.

Ford fans do the same with the engines coming due for the mustang. They say it will sell the same or more once they make there way into the mustang. Stupid reasoning on both sides if you ask me. It is better to just state the numbers without commentary.

I'll concede the silverado+sierra sells more then F-series BUT if you are going to do that you have to combine fusion/milan/mkz sales as well which, makes the comparion more lopsided to Ford.

well ok, but if you do that... combine YTD totals for malibu, G6, aura, and 9-3, which lopsides it right back to GM

[Klay]

Originally Posted by jzchev28

well ok, but if you do that... combine YTD totals for malibu, G6, aura, and 9-3, which lopsides it right back to GM

Well, considering those sales will soon not count makes them kinda irrelevant but I know what you are saying. But that really way my point, why combine vehicle sales just because they are alike?

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by Klay

Your list was incomplete because you cherry picked comparisons that make GM look more favorable to Ford which, is a bit deceptive. As far as the mustang/camaro comparison, I think it is pretty similar logic to one you used to compare the fusion and malibu. Who says that a malibu would sell more than the fusion even WITH a hybrid mode? You were trying to make it seem malibu would sell as much or more if it did have one.

I wasn't insinuating that the Malibu would sell better. I was just showing that's it's doing pretty well compared to a car that's 2 years newer, has more features and a hybrid model....or maybe the Fusion isn't doing that well?

I'll concede the silverado+sierra sells more then F-series BUT if you are going to do that you have to combine fusion/milan/mkz sales as well which, makes the comparion more lopsided to Ford.

But then we could combine Aura/G6/Malibu and GM wins again.

I don't care to combine sales of like models, but if we're bringing up F-series vs Silverado sales to show how well Ford is doing we have to look at it from a historical perspective. F-series has always outsold the Silverado.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

But then we could combine Aura/G6/Malibu and GM wins again.

I always look at Malibu + Impala. I believe the Malibu would sell a lot more if not for the Impala.
Those two combined outsell the Accord.

Nox vs Escape - 'Nox sales are production limited. When GM adds a 3rd shift, expect the gap to close. The 'Nox is another vehicle that lacks a hybrid version compared to its Ford competitor.

They don't need a hybrid.
The Nox gets the mileage without it.

[jtrav91]

Originally Posted by eaton53

They don't need a hybrid.
The Nox gets the mileage without it.

2010 Chevy EQUINOX 2WD/AWD 2.4L V4 - BIN 4 (6 out of 10)

2010 Ford ESCAPE 2WD/4WD HYBRID 2.5L V4 - ATPZEV (9 out of 10)

Hybrids are not just about mileage. They can be quite a bit cleaner too.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by cdp326

OHV = dated/unrefined/ the image GM is trying to shake off.

Really?

What type of engine is in the Corvette, Camaro SS, G8 GT, CTS-V and millions of GMT 800/900 Trucks/SUVs?

Answer = OHV

NONE of those vehicles have a "dated/unrefined image" and in the case of the Corvette, Camaro SS, G8 GT and CTS-V they compete and outperform DOHC engines of many types so your point is wrong.

The Chevrolet Malibu is a FAMILY car, not a sports car or sports sedan and a primary requirement for mid-size family cars is MPG with adequate power for day to day usage at a low price. Something the 3500 V6 does better than any other V6 on the market today and at better NVH than any I-4 in day to day driving conditions.

You have obviously never sold cars in your life, if you had you would know that when family car buyers look at the sticker of the car they like on the lot they prioritize it by:

1. Price
2. MPG
3. Content/Features

The car with the best combination of these gets a look and test drive.

They look for good passenger and cargo space and when they test drive the car it is at modest speeds and acceleration where the 3500 V6's great off the line power shines along with very little engine noise.

You completely missed the entire point of the post - how do you explain to me that GM should actively alienate 3 to 10 million current GM midsize owners who love the OHV V6 in their car and want another one in a new Malibu?

The car business is about selling cars - period.

Too many of you completely miss this very real fact and continuosly try to justify why GM has to follow along to what others are doing when they are sitting on more owners than any other manufacturer in the U.S. Trouble is you or GM have not figured out that they can make a minor change to the Malibu and attract serious buying consideration from 10 million buyers (FYI that is the number of vehicles that will be sold for all of 2009).

Offer a car that will sell to millions of buyers and some of them just might show up and GM will sell 360,000 Malibus a year, otherwise they will struggle to top 180,000.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by cdp326

Had this been the case with the Aura on its introduction its sales likely would have been higher the first year, rather than gearing it so it was rated for 4 mpg less than a comparably priced Accord I4.

And dropping the 3500 V6 did what for Aura sales?

Did not increase them, probably hurt them as the Aura never sold well even after GM added the 2.4L with 6-speed, the modest bump in sales was no more than increased market awareness.

Originally Posted by cdp326

So far things are changing - car sales seem to be improving, the in-house competition from the Aura/G6 is discontinued, etc....r.

Most G6's were equipped with the 3500 V6 sold as well as the Malibu in many months even after the 2008 Malibu was introduced. Most current G6 owners I have talked to are very disappointed the Malibu does not offer what is their favorite feature of the G6 - the 3500 V6 that has delivered all the performance they want with great MPG.

Selling more Malibus due to less in-house competition is a lame reason not to offer the 3500 V6.

Originally Posted by cdp326

It isn't just the LTZ, or even just the Malibu itself - look across GM's lineup and most every model had a price increase for 2009. Getting people to switch out of what they're loyal to and familiar with is tougher when the price is about the same if not more, with no more.

The Malibu is in the most competitive segment in the car market and you had better have the best price/value mid-size offering out there if you expect the sell in high volume and the 1LT, 2LT and LTZ Malibu are not competitive and why it is in 5th place.

Originally Posted by cdp326

You expect it to sell at Accordlike volume right now?
We're still in the second year of sales for the current Malibu but amidst all the bankruptcy/loans/perception talks it certainly isn't going to happen overnight. The basic car is there, yes, but the surrounding news and perception isn't, and who knows how long that baggage will stick around for.

I know the Malibu can sell at Accordlike volume right now, but not the way the current Malibu is equipped.

The Malibu is in it's third year of sales and was supposed to be "The car you can't ignore" well alot of buyers ignore it - especially the 3,000,000 - 10,000,000 GM has told to "go pound sand".

There is no reason why a properly price/content equipped Malibu cannot sell 360,000 a year, and the only way to know if a 3500 V6 Malibu will boost sales to those levels is to try it.

If GM tries it the way I have described, retail Malibu sales will increase to the target levels.

Don't think so?

Even if you use the lower 3,000,000 prospective buyers and only get 10% of them to come in to a dealer, test drive a Malibu and buy one, sales will increase by 300,000. I like my chances of getting that 10% "take rate" and that would be for one year.

I am thinking of a 2 year time window making the increase 150,000 per year that added to the ~180,000 for 2009 projects a 2010 sales number of 150,000 + 180,000 = 330,000 add in about a 10% bump to the 180,000 due to a better market and you get another 18,000 which added to the 330,000 equals 348,000 and that is being quite conservative, it would only take another 1,000 sales a month to hit the targeted 360,000. It would not take much to get that extra 1,000, in fact if the percentage only increased to 11% it would bring in 330,000 or 15,000 a year - more than enough.

Sometimes it pays to focus on your current owners to increase future sales.

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Really?

What type of engine is in the Corvette, Camaro SS, G8 GT, CTS-V and millions of GMT 800/900 Trucks/SUVs?

Answer = OHV

NONE of those vehicles have a "dated/unrefined image" and in the case of the Corvette, Camaro SS, G8 GT and CTS-V they compete and outperform DOHC engines of many types so your point is wrong.

I figured this would be the response. It's not my own personal opinion and the point isn't wrong - I'm talking about the image much of the media has put out. Remember how many reviews of various GM (and Ford and Chrysler) products over the years criticized their pushrod powertrains? Even when they liked the power or response, they often add that "...but it's a noisy pushrod engine and not as refined as the OHC powertrains of rival ____." At GM the comments were exclusive to the mainstream vehicles, as trucks/SUVs, sports coupes and sedans have always received praise overall. Generally the OHV V8s received praise, be it GM or Chrysler, but smaller than that not so much.

The Chevrolet Malibu is a FAMILY car, not a sports car or sports sedan and a primary requirement for mid-size family cars is MPG with adequate power for day to day usage at a low price. Something the 3500 V6 does better than any other V6 on the market today and at better NVH than any I-4 in day to day driving conditions.

You have obviously never sold cars in your life, if you had you would know that when family car buyers look at the sticker of the car they like on the lot they prioritize it by:

1. Price
2. MPG
3. Content/Features

The car with the best combination of these gets a look and test drive.

You assume both that I've never worked in anything in the car business and that I wouldn't think as a midsize sedan consumer myself. Just because one might not agree with all of what you say doesn't mean they know less.

Though you will likely assume I'm saying the 3500 Malibu is a bad idea, which I'm not, many buyers will look at the bottom line of the I4 vs. the V6. Many go in with the mindset that they don't need more than an I4. It doesn't matter what the output is or the economy - many equate a V6 with more than they need, just like many equate four-cylinder engines as underpowered regardless of what it is. If you view forum signatures (not sure if you have it turned off) you'll see we have a 2008 Aura 2.4L. We could have had the 3500 V6, but we didn't need it...and yes, we have driven 3500 Aura-bus. That is the mindset of a lot of midsize buyers, of both GM buyers and otherwise. Further, as it stood in the G6 the 3500 got 18/29 mpg. For many buyers they will see a higher sticker price for a lesser fuel economy rating...for those looking for value it won't matter if it performs and/or feels better, and for those who want more power over the I4 they might say if they're going to pay more for less economy, they'd rather go all out for the still-more power of the 3.6L/6-speed auto.

Also it appears you may be mixing the groups of new buyers and groups of past GM buyers together a bit in that last bit - it sounds like you are also trying to appeal to more than just the current GM buyers with the way its worded. Stick to proposing the 3500 Malibu for loyal buyers but the I4 will continue to be the volume appeal. From what I've gathered on this forum the GM OHV V6s aren't long for the midsize market so why direct more new buyers to them when you're also arguing GM is abandoning them now?

The car business is about selling cars - period.

Too many of you completely miss this very real fact and continuosly try to justify why GM has to follow along to what others are doing when they are sitting on more owners than any other manufacturer in the U.S. Trouble is you or GM have not figured out that they can make a minor change to the Malibu and attract serious buying consideration from 10 million buyers (FYI that is the number of vehicles that will be sold for all of 2009).

Offer a car that will sell to millions of buyers and some of them just might show up and GM will sell 360,000 Malibus a year, otherwise they will struggle to top 180,000.

I'm not missing it at all. But you are criticizing others for supporting "GM following along with others" when you also try to propose a GM equivalent to the Fusion SE V6, basically following that model. You argue the Fusion has seen a surge in sales, but remember this is due to the extensive facelift, a huge marketing campaign and a large amount of incentives to push out the stock of the older models. Marketing for the Malibu mostly fell off and GM's efforts are currently focused on the Equinox/Terrain, LaCrosse, etc.

I think in time we will see the Malibu pattern its lineup after the new Equinox, which is both a good idea and will work very well IMHO.

Originally Posted by SierraGS

And dropping the 3500 V6 did what for Aura sales?

Did not increase them, probably hurt them as the Aura never sold well even after GM added the 2.4L with 6-speed, the modest bump in sales was no more than increased market awareness.

Dropping the 3500 is not the cause for the Aura's decline in sales. GM's image in the news at the time the 2009 models were out combined with questions of Saturn's future for most of this year worked against it. Every Saturn model's sales are down, including the VUE, Saturn's best selling model since the ION was discontinued, and VUE sales mostly held steady throughout its life, until '09 (not sure what its year-to-date sales are).

The Aura's sales held mostly steady from 2007-2008. 2008 added the Ecotec option; had that not happened I'm almost positive the Aura's sales would have been down by quite a bit more, especially in light of the new Malibu's introduction the same year (with a greater dealer network and marketing focus).

For Saturn's market offering the pushrod probably was a bad idea. If Saturn is supposed to appeal to people who would otherwise buy an import brand, why an engine that largely appeals to people who would buy the American brand with that engine? The Aura's initial sales may have been higher in its first year had an I4 been available from the start, especially when it was competing against an all-new Camry and the closeout deals of the last model year of the 7th-gen Accord.

Most G6's were equipped with the 3500 V6 sold as well as the Malibu in many months even after the 2008 Malibu was introduced. Most current G6 owners I have talked to are very disappointed the Malibu does not offer what is their favorite feature of the G6 - the 3500 V6 that has delivered all the performance they want with great MPG.

Selling more Malibus due to less in-house competition is a lame reason not to offer the 3500 V6.

The Malibu is in the most competitive segment in the car market and you had better have the best price/value mid-size offering out there if you expect the sell in high volume and the 1LT, 2LT and LTZ Malibu are not competitive and why it is in 5th place.

That's what my point was as well, but the price itself is high which contributes to what looks like a poorer value.

I know the Malibu can sell at Accordlike volume right now, but not the way the current Malibu is equipped.

The Malibu is in it's third year of sales and was supposed to be "The car you can't ignore" well alot of buyers ignore it - especially the 3,000,000 - 10,000,000 GM has told to "go pound sand".

There is no reason why a properly price/content equipped Malibu cannot sell 360,000 a year, and the only way to know if a 3500 V6 Malibu will boost sales to those levels is to try it.

If GM tries it the way I have described, retail Malibu sales will increase to the target levels.

Don't think so?

[snip for conciseness /]

While I don't think a 3500 Malibu is a half-bad idea and I am impressed with the amount of thinking you've put into it, I don't think you're going to see substantial gains just from that. There are many other variables - news of GM bankruptcy/loans, owners that may not be satisfied with their OHV V6, owners that are unhappy with the discontinuation of Pontiac, owners that seek out the specific model name (Century, Grand Prix, etc), the Impala price overlap, and so on.
With the discontinuation of Pontiac much of it is in the initial stage where many say they won't buy another GM product. Years down the line, after the initial reaction, they may. I think the same will go for people looking for an OHV V6/general inexpensive V6 option.

Sometimes it pays to focus on your current owners to increase future sales.

Cue the free oil change coupons!

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by cdp326

Also it appears you may be mixing the groups of new buyers and groups of past GM buyers together a bit in that last bit - it sounds like you are also trying to appeal to more than just the current GM buyers with the way its worded. Stick to proposing the 3500 Malibu for loyal buyers but the I4 will continue to be the volume appeal. From what I've gathered on this forum the GM OHV V6s aren't long for the midsize market so why direct more new buyers to them when you're also arguing GM is abandoning them now?

My thinking is that most current GM mid-size owners have an OHV V6 in them and that they are happy with them, so why not give them something that they are comfortable with in the Malibu, this eliminates one very large factor when trying to sell a car, and once they drive a new Malibu they will be very attracted to it - attracted enough to actually buy one.

The fact is that GM can directly market a Malibu 3500 V6 to 3,000,000 to 10,000,000 GM midsize customers at low cost/risk with a very large payoff in increased sales.

For very little risk GM can put the CURRENT Malibu at the top of the midsize sales charts, taking it from fifth place to an easy second and possibly first place making the Malibu the best selling car in the U.S.

Why should GM not do this and what is your plan to get the 2010 Malibu to the top of the sales charts?

Originally Posted by cdp326

I'm not missing it at all. But you are criticizing others for supporting "GM following along with others" when you also try to propose a GM equivalent to the Fusion SE V6, basically following that model. You argue the Fusion has seen a surge in sales, but remember this is due to the extensive facelift, a huge marketing campaign and a large amount of incentives to push out the stock of the older models. Marketing for the Malibu mostly fell off and GM's efforts are currently focused on the Equinox/Terrain, LaCrosse, etc.

I think in time we will see the Malibu pattern its lineup after the new Equinox, which is both a good idea and will work very well IMHO.

The Equinox model will work but why are you waiting?

GM needs to take action now, not "wait till the next generation Malibu".
When is that going to stop?

The 2010 Fusion SE is selling very well due to it's compelling value and a review of dealer inventory levels show that most Fusion sales in 2009 are 2010 models with lower incentives than the current Malibu.

Matching the Fusion SE is not "following" it, GM offered a competitively price/content 2004 - 2007 Malibu 1LT and 2LT, trouble was the package it was wrapped in. If the 2004 - 2007 Malibu looked like the current one with the price/content of the 2004-2007 one, it would have sold much better. GM has gone backwards with the current Malibu and can easily correct the lack of a low price V6 model with Fog Lights and 6-way power seat that is a better value than competitors, the time for action is right now and with what GM has to work with.

Originally Posted by cdp326

While I don't think a 3500 Malibu is a half-bad idea and I am impressed with the amount of thinking you've put into it, I don't think you're going to see substantial gains just from that. There are many other variables - news of GM bankruptcy/loans, owners that may not be satisfied with their OHV V6, owners that are unhappy with the discontinuation of Pontiac, owners that seek out the specific model name (Century, Grand Prix, etc), the Impala price overlap, and so on.
With the discontinuation of Pontiac much of it is in the initial stage where many say they won't buy another GM product. Years down the line, after the initial reaction, they may. I think the same will go for people looking for an OHV V6/general inexpensive V6 option.

I don't buy the loss of sales due to "news of GM bankruptcy/loans" and doesn't GM's increase in marketshare for October prove that?

Owners who do not like their OHV V6 have the 2.4L and 3.6L to choose from, which makes a direct market approach to them less risky, but since many do like their OHV V6 not having the 3500 V6 option increases the risk substantially and should be avioded. The 3500 V6 has not hurt Impala sales and the Impala regularly outsells the Malibu, proving that the 3500 V6 in a car is not a bad idea, so adding it to the Malibu can only improve sales.

Doing nothing with the 2010 Malibu is not an option - something has to be tried, so why not turn to your own loyal customer base and show that you are aware that they exist and are sincerely trying to offer them a product that they will be interested in?

GM needs to focus on selling as many 2010 - 2011 Malibus that it can and without jacking up rebates or spending millions in advertisements, and it can with a well executed low cost direct marketing approach to current owners and is a lot better than GM's decision to actively alienate 3 to 10 million current GM midsize owners who love the OHV V6 in their car and want another one in a new Malibu.

Originally Posted by cdp326

Cue the free oil change coupons!

Correction - Cue the $1,000 to $3,000 rebates.

[SierraGS]

Buick had a nice move up with improved LaCrosse sales and will only get better when the Regal and Verano are added to the line. GMC had a great month with good sales for Sierra and the new Terrain and even the Yukon rebounded.

Going forward Buick-GMC will continue to add sales as they build from each others improved line-ups.

Chevrolet Trucks were boosted by strong showings from Equinox, Traverse and Tahoe and should continue to do well as more Equinox's are built, unfortunately Chevrolet cars lagged even with great Camaro sales.

There was a similar story a Cadillac - strong SUV-Truck with improved SRX sales but diappointing car sales.

I look for most of GM's sales and market share growth in 2010 to come from Buick-GMC.