as it turns out....there are miracles

[hp500stingray]

hey guys, i have a 3.1 V6 malibu. As it turns out i have discovered a couple of really good websites for all-around performance for my malibu!!!! They got everything... so now i dont have to go and buy a performance vehicle. I can make it work with what i have. I have a question though.....should i port my stock intake manifold or buy a aftermarket one first and buy an exhaust and then port the intake?

[F14CRAZY]

How much power would you like to put out? Without forced induction I doubt you could put much more than 200 hp to the wheels.

The dyno record for a N/A 3800 is about 250 at the wheels, that's with A LOT of money spent...stroker kit, extensive head work...

[hp500stingray]

well, i was going to ask next if the 3.1 block's stability would be compromised if i was to bore it over .010? also is the block boost friendly or should i buy an aluminum block first and go from there? im hoping 400-450 hp with boost and a wet shot of 75-100. i kno it is crazy, but i kno i can make it work and i am very willing to put the time and effort into it and more importantly i have the funds....just not enough research yet to make a wise start.....

[F14CRAZY]

Block will be ok...consider the Chevy 60 degree V6 (your 3100) was offered back then up to 3.4L, and now up to 3.9L. Plenty of material in there.

A NOS shot will give anything horsepower but like I said there isn't much more power to be made without forced induction

[hp500stingray]

oh i put that i want boost or a turbo setup lol
ok if the block wont bitch and break under the pressure then let the frankeinsteining begin... i have looked everywhere for an aftermarket intake but there aren't any. Should i just port and polish it and call it good or should i have someone fabricate one?
the rest is pretty much available but i may still want to ask for advice in the future.

[377Z]

Originally Posted by F14CRAZY

Block will be ok...consider the Chevy 60 degree V6 (your 3100) was offered back then up to 3.4L, and now up to 3.9L. Plenty of material in there.

That's like saying you can take an SBC with a 3.5" bore and open it up to 4.125", since thats the stock bore of a 400. Not true! IIRC some of the early 283's had enough meat cast in to comfortably bore to 4.000," but they quit casting them that way sometime in the 60's.

0.010" over shouldn't put it over the edge, but you can't just take a 3.1 block's 89MM bore and go 10MM over.

[hp500stingray]

ok, then should i just port my intake and get an exhaust to start and not bore it over? Since i am hoping to turbo it, should i use forged pistons and crank or is that going over the top?

[377Z]

The best way to start is to make a long term plan that you will stick to, and a key part of that is to be realistic about how much you want to spend, then gear the approach to maximze HP/dollar. Set a realistic goal; a genuine 400-450HP is serious power and it won’t be a matter of slapping some parts together; most folks with SBC’s can’t even get there. Not trying to discourage; you might be surprised at what getting an honest 200-250HP out of a 3.1 would be like, you would surprise a lot of people.

There are two basic ways of increasing the amount of fuel and air burned per unit of time. Force more in (i.e. boost) or spin the motor faster. In this case (as with most small motors) by far the better value as far as HP/dollar is concerned is with boost, I’d go that route.

The internet is a powerful thing, use it. The 60 degree V6 was used in A LOT of cars, so even if whatever chassis (Malibu?) you have may not have a performance following & subsequent gearhead forum, others like the 3rd & 4th gen F-bodies and S series trucks do. You can find some veeery interesting things on the V6 forums. I recommend Http://www.thirdgen.org Personal experience is really the second best teacher in some cases; others’ experiences are the best, since it can cut down on needless duplication of trial and error.

If it were me, I'd start with a rear mount low pressure turbo in the spirit of what STS sells. This way you don’t need to mess with turbo manifolds & related fitment issues. This would be the very first thing I’d do, since it should produce the single largest jump in power (and is a HECK of a morale lifter). The beauty of boost is that with a properly sized turbo it basically fattens up the power you already have, since all of the things that determine the characteristics of the motor—intake, heads, cam, are left as is, your just forcing more air in which basically will make the motor feel like a bigger version of itself. I'd start at about 5-7 PSI, and use one of the many free DIY tuning softwares out there with a wideband. Don’t underestimate the amount of work it will take to get this far. Once I got the tune right, I'd start creeping up in boost, though with stock internals, I'd self impose some limit like 10 PSI (just based on my gut feeling). At this point, if I was still into going on with the project, I’d consider going into the motor to upgrade internals & port heads, then fab up an intake, etc. so I could run even more boost. If you've not done it before, I highly recommend you price out machine work like a bore/hone, decking, line boring mains, balancing, etc. This is not a place to skimp.

Power is produced by burning fuel and air. Increasing the amount of fuel and air burned per unit of time increases potential to make more power. So, you want to flow more fuel and air. Since flowing more fuel is by far the much simpler matter, the difficulty is typically focused on flowing more air. This is the job of the top end of the motor, the bottom end must simply withstand it—a stronger crank, rods, and pistons won’t produce any more power, they’ll tolerate more power. I wouldn’t immediately delve into a bottom end rebuild.

The best motors are the ones that have a combination of parts that work together effectively, or compliment each other, if you will. Can’t stress this enough. The 3.1 is evidence of that--its just that its set up for low end torque, and has long narrow intake runners, small ports & valves, and small log style exhaust manifolds. They are all matched pretty well, as evidenced by the 3.1’s relatively fat low RPM torque curve. Put on a big high flowing custom fabricated intake, & you might gain a few HP higher in the RPM range, but it won’t offset the loss of bottom end and probably make the car slower if you do not also upgrade the heads & exhaust. A wise man once said, think of the engine as sections of garden hose. Even if you replace all but one section with a larger diameter, you will still only flow as much as the smallest section. You have to improve the entire system. If I chose to upgrade the intake, cam, and exhaust I’d build them around whatever you can get out of ported stock heads flow characteristics are, since they will be your ultimate limiter. What can you get out of the heads? I have no idea, I've never built a 3.1. The pain of building something uncommon is *you* are the R&D dept.

Once you hit a certain threshold of power, you will start fragging stuff like the rotating assembly, transmission, CV joints, etc. I’d mostly worry about the transmission, presuming this is in a transverse FWD application. At what threshold? The R&D dept will need to find that answer.

Good luck and have fun

[hp500stingray]

Thanks 377Z. That is exactly what i needed to know. I also just found a blooging community that work on my type of V6 so they have been telling me what to do and what the costs are going to be, and now i can follow a guidleine so that i don't get bummed out and lose faith. I now have all the resources i need.....let the fun start......NOW!!!

[GMfan1111]

Originally Posted by hp500stingray

Thanks 377Z. That is exactly what i needed to know. I also just found a blooging community that work on my type of V6 so they have been telling me what to do and what the costs are going to be, and now i can follow a guidleine so that i don't get bummed out and lose faith. I now have all the resources i need.....let the fun start......NOW!!!

Good to hear that you'll be putting some fun under the hood of your Bu. As a fellow Bu owner the first set of mods you should do is induction mods. the 3.1 is pretty restrictive on airflow so you would need a K&N or some other performance oriented filter and an aftermarket dual exhaust Also keep an eye on the brakes (N body cars such as yours have a tendency to eat rotors and get other brake related problems).

and heres a couple website you should check out as well


http://60degreev6.com


http://nbodypower.com/nbodypower/


and this website which has underdrive pulleys for sale that will help free a few extra horses


http://www.mrzperformance.com/produc...ls.aspx?pId=24

[hp500stingray]

yup yup that is what i am doing right now.....60degreev6.com is pretty sweet

[Delta2.2]

how much do you have to spend....this is a BIG factor in how my answer will play out. send me a PM and i'll figure out some stuff with you

[prowlerjc]

As a general rule, each psi is worth about 7 hp.

I'm not sure the internals on that engine are all that strong, so be very careful with the boost.

[Delta2.2]

Originally Posted by prowlerjc

As a general rule, each psi is worth about 7 hp.

I'm not sure the internals on that engine are all that strong, so be very careful with the boost.

thats a horrible general rule btw. totally inacurate.

there are many things in determining power output and measureing by psi is probably the most noob, undeducated thing to do.

do your research first, know everything there is to know about what your getting into, then ask.