tb ss = 390 hp, silverado = 367? why?

[chakis24]

dont know if this is the right place, so please fix as necessary.

i noticed this weekend that the traiblazer ss comes with the 6.0 tuned to 393 hp and 400 ft. lbs. why isnt it tuned this way in the pickups? is there something im missing? there might not be any need to drop in the 6.2 if they can get 400 horses out of the 6.0, just up the power in this as long as the 5.3 and keep the engines where they currently are. i dont think this engine has any type of new technology in it in this applicaiton, so add DI and VVT and im sure power would go up even more, no? is there a reason this isnt done? drop in the 6 speed as well (the tb only has a 4) and youre pretty well off. i was just curious- this seems more logical than dropping the engine as a whole.

PS- this truck is a looker as well, and its really nice on the inside (i like the velvetesque seat inserts. sat in one at the show this past weekend. really nice

[RamJet502]

The TBSS is probably tuned more aggressively from the factory. I bet they detune the Silverado for increased engine longevity.

[RamJet502]

Here's a comparison, looks like higher compression is the major difference.

2007 Vortec Max 6.0L V8 ( L76 )
Type: 6.0L Gen IV V8 Small Block
Displacement: 5967cc (364 ci)
Compression ratio: 9.6:1
Valve configuration: overhead valves (2 valves per cylinder)
Assembly site: Silao, Mexico
Valve lifters: hydraulic roller
Firing order: 1 - 8 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3
Bore x stroke: 101.6 x 92mm
Fuel system: sequential fuel injection ( SFI )
Fuel type: regular unleaded
Fuel shut off: 6000 RPM
Emissions controls: catalytic converter
three-way catalyst
positive crankcase ventilation
Applications: Horsepower: hp ( kw )
GMC Sierra 367 hp ( 257 kw ) @ 5200 rpm
Chevrolet Silverado
Applications: Torque: lb-ft ( Nm )
GMC Sierra 390 lb-ft ( 515 Nm ) @ 4000 rpm
Chevrolet Silverado

MATERIALS
Block: cast aluminum
Cylinder head: cast aluminum
Intake manifold: composite
Exhaust manifold: cast nodular iron
Main bearing caps: powder metal
Crankshaft: cast nodular iron with undercut and rolled fillets
Camshaft: hollow steel
Connecting rods: powder metal
Additional features: extended life spark plugs
extended life coolant
Oil Life System
electronic throttle control



2007 Vortec Max 6.0L V8 ( LQ9 ) '31606
Type: 6.0L Gen III V8
Displacement: 5967cc (364 ci)
Compression ratio: 10.0:1
Valve configuration: overhead valve (2 valves per cylinder)
Assembly site: Romulus, Mich.
Valve lifters: hydraulic roller
Firing order: 1 - 8 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3
Bore x stroke: 101.6 x 92mm
Fuel system: sequential fuel injection
Fuel type: premium fuel recommended
Applications: Horsepower: hp ( kw )
GMC Sierra ( Classic ) 345 hp ( 257 kw ) @ 5200 rpm
Chevrolet Silverado ( Classic )
Applications: Torque: lb-ft ( Nm )
GMC Sierra ( Classic ) 380 lb-ft ( 515 Nm ) @ 4000 rpm
Chevrolet Silverado ( Classic )
Fuel shut off: 6000 rpm
Emissions controls: evaporative system
catalytic converter
"positive crankcase ventilation
returnless fuel system"

MATERIALS
Block: cast iron
Cylinder head: cast aluminum
Intake manifold: composite
Exhaust manifold: high silicon molybdenum
cast nodular iron
Main bearing caps: powder metal
Crankshaft: cast iron with undercut and rolled fillets
Camshaft: steel
Connecting rods: forged powder metal
Additional features: extended life spark plugs
extended life coolant
oil level sensor
Oil Life System
"electronic throttle control
floating pin pistons
GF4 oil
rate based diagnostics"


2007 "LS2" 6.0L V8 ( LS2 )
Type: 6.0L GenIV V8 Small Block
Displacement: 5967cc (364 ci)
Compression ratio: 10.9:1
Valve configuration: overhead valves (2 valves per cylinder)
Assembly site: St. Catharines, Ontario
Valve lifters: hydraulic roller
Firing order: 1 - 8 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 3
Bore x stroke: 101.6 x 92mm
Fuel system: sequential fuel injection
Fuel type: premium fuel recommended
Application: Horsepower: hp ( kW )
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS 395hp (295kw) @ 6000 rpm
Application: Torque: lb-ft ( Nm )
Chevrolet TrailBlazer SS 400 lb-ft ( 542Nm ) @ 4000 rpm
Fuel shut off: 6600 rpm
Emissions controls: catalytic converter
three-way catalyst
positive crankcase ventilation

MATERIALS
Block: cast aluminum
Cylinder head: cast aluminum
Intake manifold: composite
Exhaust manifold: cast nodular iron
Main bearing caps: powder metal
Crankshaft: cast nodular iron with undercut and rolled fillets
Camshaft: hollow steel
Connecting rods: powder metal
Additional features: extended life spark plugs
extended life coolant
oil level sensor
Oil Life System

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

The TBSS is probably tuned more aggressively from the factory. I bet they detune the Silverado for increased engine longevity.

the extra 30 or so horsepower would really hurt it that much you think? its still kinda strange to me. there isnt much different between the two engines- some materials, compression ratio, and recmonded fuel. its also weird how the tbss rev max is 6600 and the vmax is 6000 rpm's.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by chakis24

the extra 30 or so horsepower would really hurt it that much you think? its still kinda strange to me. there isnt much different between the two engines- some materials, compression ratio, and recmonded fuel. its also weird how the tbss rev max is 6600 and the vmax is 6000 rpm's.

It doesn't seem like a big difference to me either, but I'm sure they expect people to tow with the VortecMax more than they do with the LS2.

[DuSpinnst]

LS2 is not the same as the VortecMax (they are related though).

Just as the LS4 isn't a 5300 Vortec and the LS3 isn't a 6200 Vortec.

The LS's have different cams and valvetrains as well as intake and exhaust.

[E. Haskell]

The LS2 has more power, but it also needs 93 octane (higher compression ratio). With the 6.2 they'll be able to make more power while still using 87 octane.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

LS2 is not the same as the VortecMax (they are related though).

Just as the LS4 isn't a 5300 Vortec and the LS3 isn't a 6200 Vortec.

The LS's have different cams and valvetrains as well as intake and exhaust.

but do those changes make it impossible to drop it into the pickups? are the changes that large? if the vmax is only missing headers and needs a new intake it doesnt seem like its not applicable. why not use the ls2 stuff on the 6.0? or just drop in the whole ls2 package? what makes it so different i guess is what im asking, and why these changes couldnt be made

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by chakis24

but do those changes make it impossible to drop it into the pickups? are the changes that large? if the vmax is only missing headers and needs a new intake it doesnt seem like its not applicable. why not use the ls2 stuff on the 6.0? or just drop in the whole ls2 package? what makes it so different i guess is what im asking, and why these changes couldnt be made

Well you'd probably need the exhaust and intake from the Vortec and the Accessory Mount (The thing that screws to the front of the block to mount all the accessories) from the Vortec. You'd also need the motor mounts from the Vortec. Unless you grabbed TB SS stuff as it SHOULD be close enough to the Vortec (in shape).

Corvette and GTO intake manifolds and exhaust headers are not going to work obviously.

The Block and Head are physically the same size, in theory

[chakis24]

not knowing the intricacies of engine design, what seems easy to me probably isnt. i understand some stuff wouldnt just drop right in, but i dont see it costing too much money to redesign some things. and what would be needed to do in order to let it run on regular fuel?

[The Wake]

Vortecs, LSx's, 5300's - 6200's, whatever you want to call them, are all based on the same basic architecture. Vortec is the term used for engines put into trucks - it doesn't mean anything. LSx or Lxx designations are GM RPO codes for specific engines. The 6.0L LS2 from the Trailblazer and the 6.0L L76 from the Silverado use the same block, but different heads/intakes. The LS2 uses the old style GEN III based cathedral port heads and intake. The L76 uses the new L92 rectangular port heads, which feature larger raised ports that require offset intake rocker arms the use of the L92/L76 intake manifold. The L92 heads flow much better than the older ones. As for only 367 hp in the new Silverado, back when they were introduced, the nearest competitor in the power department was Dodge's Hemi at 345 hp. You don't spill all the beans at once, it's about controlled release. This engine is capable of MUCH more.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by The Wake

Vortecs, LSx's, 5300's - 6200's, whatever you want to call them, are all based on the same basic architecture. Vortec is the term used for engines put into trucks - it doesn't mean anything. LSx or Lxx designations are GM RPO codes for specific engines. The 6.0L LS2 from the Trailblazer and the 6.0L L76 from the Silverado use the same block, but different heads/intakes. The LS2 uses the old style GEN III based cathedral port heads and intake. The L76 uses the new L92 rectangular port heads, which feature larger raised ports that require offset intake rocker arms the use of the L92/L76 intake manifold. The L92 heads flow much better than the older ones. As for only 367 hp in the new Silverado, back when they were introduced, the nearest competitor in the power department was Dodge's Hemi at 345 hp. You don't spill all the beans at once, it's about controlled release. This engine is capable of MUCH more.

thats what im saying. instead of getting rid of the engine and replacing it with the 6.2, why not just update the 6.0?

[SuperSS27]

Originally Posted by The Wake

Vortecs, LSx's, 5300's - 6200's, whatever you want to call them, are all based on the same basic architecture. Vortec is the term used for engines put into trucks - it doesn't mean anything. LSx or Lxx designations are GM RPO codes for specific engines. The 6.0L LS2 from the Trailblazer and the 6.0L L76 from the Silverado use the same block, but different heads/intakes. The LS2 uses the old style GEN III based cathedral port heads and intake. The L76 uses the new L92 rectangular port heads, which feature larger raised ports that require offset intake rocker arms the use of the L92/L76 intake manifold. The L92 heads flow much better than the older ones. As for only 367 hp in the new Silverado, back when they were introduced, the nearest competitor in the power department was Dodge's Hemi at 345 hp. You don't spill all the beans at once, it's about controlled release. This engine is capable of MUCH more.

The LS2 from the Trailblazer has the same truck intake as the 6.0's from the trucks. Just an FYI...

[The Wake]

Don't know about that aspect. Cost would be my guess. Manufacturing two nearly identical blocks with very minor bore diameter difference doesn't make much economical sense. And if you were going to drop one, also doesn't make any sense to drop the larger one - with the horsepower war that is waging.

[SuperSS27]

Originally Posted by chakis24

thats what im saying. instead of getting rid of the engine and replacing it with the 6.2, why not just update the 6.0?

Because the potential of the 6.2 is much greater than the 6.0l. The 6.0l is maxed with the old style heads. With the new heads, their numbers are crazy.