VE Commodore To Revive Pontiac

[JoeT]

VE Commodore To Revive Pontiac

Marton Pettendy
30 May 2006
www.goauto.com.au

Australian Holden engineering could underpin a future generation of large rear-wheel drive Pontiac performance cars – including a new-generation GTO coupe – if a proposal by General Motors to revive its sports-oriented US brand comes to fruition.

US industry publication Automotive News this week reported that parent company GM has hatched a plan to revive its troubled Pontiac brand by developing a new range of large and exclusively rear-wheel drive performance-oriented models to replace the current line-up.

Holden is GM's global engineering centre for large rear-drive vehicle architectures and the Lion brand and Pontiac share many synergies at the value end of the market place.

The first production model to emerge from the global GM large/rear-drive component set formerly known as Zeta will be August's all-new VE Commodore sedan, but the basis of the replacement for Australia's most popular car will also underpin a range of new models in the US.

According to Automotive News, these could include a replacement for the Holden Monaro-based Pontiac GTO based on the Chevrolet Camaro concept revealed at the Detroit motor show in January – a model that could also be built on Australian foundations if approved for production.

"We haven't made any bones about the fact that Pontiac needs a rear-wheel-drive performance vehicle," said Pontiac spokesman Jim Hopson.

While Holden previously admitted that up to 500,000 vehicles could be based on Zeta globally, this week the company refused to confirm whether discussions had taken place regarding future Pontiac models based on Holden-developed architecture, but indicated a VE Commodore-based born-again GTO could be just one possibility.

"At the top level Holden is the base for the development of global rear-wheel drive architectures for future GM programs," spokesman Jason Laird told GoAuto. "That's in place and the first vehicle off that architecture will be VE, but the architecture group will work on programs for other GM projects.

"As for what those cars or programs are, we're not in a position to discuss ... we have the expertise, we have a very global team working with the Holden team.

"We are working on the architecture, but as far as what products the architecture might be applied to I’m not in a position to comment.

"You would need to draw your own conclusions."

Mr Laird stressed Holden's role within the GM world was "more about intellectual export rather than physical export", indicating that it was unlikely there would be a repeat of the situation that saw Holden's discontinued Monaro coupe exported to the US as the Pontiac GTO for three model years.

Indeed, having reduced production to two shifts at its Elizabeth factory in South Australia, resulting in annual capacity of about 140,000, Holden is not in a position to supply the massive US market – even with a relatively low-volume sports coupe like the new-generation GTO, which would be expected to attract sales of around 70,000.

Given that producing a two-door Monaro version of the forthcoming VE for low-volume Australian consumption is not viable, any future-generation Holden Monaro would be based on the new GTO and imported from the US.

Pontiac, which sold just 437,806 vehicles in US last year compared with 599,123 a decade earlier in 1995, is understood to be investigating repositioning itself as a rear-drive-only performance brand by developing a next-generation GTO based on Camaro architecture, a more expensive sedan to replace the Grand Prix and a Firebird muscle car.

GM is expected to unveil a rear-drive sedan concept at the 2007 Detroit motor show, in a repeat of the strategy that saw the 1999 Evoq concept herald a new corporate styling language for its flagship Cadillac brand.

AN said sources indicated the exclusive rear-drive Pontiac model portfolio would take five years to put in place, requiring a further generation of front-drive small cars and all-wheel drive pick-up trucks in the interim.

Once described by GM product boss Bob Lutz as "a damaged brand", Pontiac will be sold alongside fellow GM marques Buick and GMC in three-brand dealerships, with the Pontiac Torrent crossover, a rebadged Chevrolet Equinox, likely to be become a GMC model.

AN sources said Pontiac's front-drive Grand Prix would be discontinued after the 2008 model year as GM truncates the brand's line-up in preparation for an exclusive RWD strategy.

While some US pundits have said that making Pontiac a dedicated rear-drive performance division of GM would limit sales - especially in northern climates where front-drive vehicles are considered safer - others are insisting GM needs an image-leading, BMW-style brand offering rear-drive models exclusively.

With GM's only other current large rear-drive architecture, Cadillac's Sigma, deemed too expensive to underpin models for a nameplate such as Pontiac, it seems Holden is in the box seat to produce them.

[poncho1982]

Yahoo!!!! Pontiac's next on the rehab list!!!!


As it should be.

[paul8488]

It's nice hearing all these rumours. Gets a Pontiac fan all excited-like! The size of a division isn't as important as the profit it makes, I'd think. A RWD Pontiac has room at GM alongside Chevrolet and a reborn Saturn... not sure it does otherwise. In the end, how many different RWD platforms would Pontiac need? Could they get by with 3? There's Kappa for small cars and Zeta for big ones... might be tricky to find the cash for something in between, especially since I can't think of much that could share it.

[Ultra Magnus]

Originally Posted by paul8488

It's nice hearing all these rumours. Gets a Pontiac fan all excited-like! The size of a division isn't as important as the profit it makes, I'd think. A RWD Pontiac has room at GM alongside Chevrolet and a reborn Saturn... not sure it does otherwise. In the end, how many different RWD platforms would Pontiac need? Could they get by with 3? There's Kappa for small cars and Zeta for big ones... might be tricky to find the cash for something in between, especially since I can't think of much that could share it.

As for a middle platform, either stretch the Kappa, or isnt the next gen Epsilon platform supposed to be AWD capable? If so, how hard would it be to create a mid size car that has real wheel drive biased AWD or even just real wheel drive off this platform?

This is definitely a step in the right direction. I just fear how long it will take to get there. These are products that need to exist within the next year AT the dealerships, not 2010.

[rsnumber2]

The idea sounds great. Almost sounds too good to be true. The only way top brass would approve is if all the models in the Pontiac line are a tic slower and considerably more expensive than each comparable Chevy SS model. They just can't threaten their "Big Dog!"

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by JoeT

While some US pundits have said that making Pontiac a dedicated rear-drive performance division of GM would limit sales - especially in northern climates where front-drive vehicles are considered safer - others are insisting GM needs an image-leading, BMW-style brand offering rear-drive models exclusively.

I can understand what they're getting at here, but couldn't they offer AWD based on a RWD platform like Sigma does or BMW? Even Chrysler offers AWD on their RWD offerings like the 300 and the Magnum. I know they want to get back to a performance image (and I agree they should), but certainly offering AWD wouldn't undermine this at all -- right? I think that would be one way of doing it without really killing sales in the northern states anway since BMW seems to have done it rather well.

[01cavalier]

With GM trying to lump Pontiac, Buick and GMC together, putting pontiac in a niche like this might just work. Good to see rumors about RWD making a return!

[pkd87]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

I can understand what they're getting at here, but couldn't they offer AWD based on a RWD platform like Sigma does or BMW? Even Chrysler offers AWD on their RWD offerings like the 300 and the Magnum. I know they want to get back to a performance image (and I agree they should), but certainly offering AWD wouldn't undermine this at all -- right? I think that would be one way of doing it without really killing sales in the northern states anway since BMW seems to have done it rather well.

I agree. i think optional AWD would be smart and besides, Lambo has AWD on it's vehicles, and they are performance. (of course they are expensive as well, but you get my point)

[FireFox89]

bout time

[nikivee]

Originally Posted by rsnumber2

The idea sounds great. Almost sounds too good to be true. The only way top brass would approve is if all the models in the Pontiac line are a tic slower and considerably more expensive than each comparable Chevy SS model. They just can't threaten their "Big Dog!"

HUH? What comparable car did Chevy have to the GTO? It certainly wasn't a Corvette.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by paul8488

.. might be tricky to find the cash for something in between, especially since I can't think of much that could share it.

I was thinking the same thing. The only thing I can think of is that now that GM seems to have moved to a single engineering and design budget world-wide, perhaps they could find some additional synergies with Holden and other brands. Unless the VE/Zeta platform is very flexible enough to build smaller vehicles, I would surmise that perhaps Holden could revist the "Beta" platform from the Torana TT36 concept. That itself would make an oustanding small car. To create better economies of scale, Pontiac could certainly use it -- and perhaps Caddy as well for a small/3-series sized vehicle (yes, I know that the next BLS is supposed to be based on an AWD version of the next Epsilon platform, but still would be interesting).

Just thinking out loud here, but it certainly would be interesting. Perhaps even Opel would want some sort of smaller/sport-coupe to compete in Europe and perhaps a version could find it's way at Buick as a convertible?

Just thinking out loud here, but it certainly has its merits.

[63cat]

Ideal Buick/Pontiac/GMC lineup:

Buick:
full size RWD sedan: Electra or Roadmaster
full size FWD sedan (smaller than above) Lucerne
mid-size FWD sedan, LaCrosse
crossover Enclave
full size RWD coupe/Convertible Velite or Riviera

Pontiac: mid-size RWD sedan Gran Prix,
mid-size RWD coupe GTO
sports convertible Solstice
small RWD sedan/coupe G-6, but with new name: Ventura, LeMans, Tempest?


GMC: gets all the trucks, minivans

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by pkd87

I agree. i think optional AWD would be smart and besides, Lambo has AWD on it's vehicles, and they are performance. (of course they are expensive as well, but you get my point)

Its true, Lambo bets away with it -- and so does the Bentley Continental Coupe, the S4, etc. I don't think one could argue that having AWD means you're less sporty -- but you're right, cost may be a factor. I don't know what the average cost is for an AWD system in a vehicle, but it certainly would merit looking into.

[FireFox89]

ok sry for the second post, but i like to add dodge is doing darn well with rwd/awd offerings and leaving only the caliber frontdrive/caliber srt4 awd. Sounds familar tho as pontiac could become "dodgified" tho offering brawny awd/rwd vehicles again and leaving the g6 front drive.

Grand Prix-deserves rear drive
GTO-already there but needs retro/future mix like the camaro (basically a coupe grand prix)
Solstice-better transmissions
G5-is temporary i hope ..til a kappa rwd coupe takes its place
g6-remain as is (lower end is fwd). epsilion 2 offer awd on gxp, maybe to cover for a lower end per say, strip the g6 even slightly further to cover the lower end (<$17k)
vibe-whatever toyota decides to do with the architecture
kill torrent and give to gmc and just kill the minivan all together, which pontiac already did.

woo this sounds interesting, i know gm shoots out they're mouth often but hearing a firebird/ta and a possible gto excites the jebus outta me

[SUPERBADD75]

global GM large/rear-drive component set formerly known as Zeta

now it's simply known as...



seriously, this is great news, now let's see it happen. i'd like to see not only a coupe (GTO), but a sedan as well. a neo-Bonneville would be nice, but you know they'd just call it G8. oh well, it'd still be nice to see.