Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results

**JoeT** · 06-12-2007, 01:26 AM

Commodore Scores 4-Star Safety

Joshua Dowling
12 June 2007
www.drive.com.au

Despite a $1 billion development budget - the most of any locally-made car - the new Holden Commodore has the same safety rating as a five-year-old Ford Falcon.

Australia cars are still not up to world class safety levels. That's the verdict according to the independent crash-test body, the Australian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP), which is funded by motoring authorities in each state and territory in Australia.

In the latest round of tests, due to be announced today, (subs: Tuesday June 12) the Toyota Aurion V6 scored 30 out of a possible 37 points, the equivalent of a "high" four-star rating, whereas Australia's biggest-selling car, the Commodore, scored 27 out of 37, the equivalent of a "mid" four-star rating and the same as a 2002 Ford Falcon.

Holden is not upset by the result - the car maker predicted the outcome after simulating the ANCAP test last year.

"We're very happy with the Commodore's performance in a real-world crash," Holden's chief engineer Tony Hyde told Drive. "We knew our car would score four stars in an ANCAP test [but] we design our cars for the real world, not just one test."

In the ANCAP tests the Commodore lost points for injuries to the chest, knees and lower legs.

Mr Hyde said Holden had done 80 crash tests and 5000 computer simulations when developing the new Commodore. "Monash University has also analysed some real world crashes, and the reports came back very positive," he said. "Accidents don't always happen at ANCAP speeds, they occur more often at lower speeds."

The ANCAP figures show Australian-made cars still lag behind the global benchmark of five stars - despite two all-new models (the Commodore and Aurion) going on sale in the past year. In Europe, car makers regularly achieve five-star ratings.

"There is room for improvement,'' the NRMA's safety expert Jack Haley told Drive. "We were hoping for a five-star car to emerge from this round of testing but we're not there yet."

A four-star score is still regarded as good, he said, and it is the minimum rating that ANCAP recommends, but "we expected five stars and we'd like to see a locally-made vehicle get there soon".

Click here to continue article

Why Don't We Build A Five-Star Car?

Joshua Dowling
15 June 2007
www.smh.com.au

Our best-selling sedans trail the world's best safety standards. Joshua Dowling analyses how far they have to go.

Despite two, all-new, "world class" sedans going on sale in the past 12 months - the Holden Commodore and Toyota Aurion - Australian makers are still some time away from producing a vehicle with a five-star safety rating.

That's the verdict from the Australian New Car Assessment Program, an independent body funded by motoring authorities in each state and territory, after it released the figures from the latest round of tests this week.

"There is room for improvement," says Jack Haley, the NRMA's safety expert . "We were hoping for a five-star car to emerge from this round of testing but we're not there yet."

ANCAP has no legal power over the car industry; rather it relies on its publicly available star rating system to encourage car makers to lift their game.

In Australia, the cars tested by ANCAP are paid for and selected by ANCAP from a random sample to ensure they are indicative of customer cars.

All new cars sold in Australia meet Federal Government regulations but ANCAP and its European affiliate, EuroNCAP, were established to provide car buyers with a more transparent scoring system, to reward those vehicles whose safety is beyond the minimum requirement and to encourage cars that barely score a pass to improve.

Of all the locally made cars, the Toyota Aurion V6 came closest to a five-star rating, recording a score of 30.03 out of a possible 37 points. A score of at least 32.5 is needed to reach five stars.

Click here to continue article

VE Safe: Holden

Marton Pettendy
20 June 2007
www.goauto.com.au

Holden defends its billion-dollar car as new evidence shows a lower crash score.

GM Holden has defended the safety of its new VE Commodore following the four-star crash test rating it received last week from the Australasian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP), whose test results show the billion-dollar VE recorded a lower frontal offset score than that of the VY Commodore in May 2003.

Information obtained by GoAuto reveals that while its predecessor scored 12.79 points out of 16 in the offset impact test, the all-new Commodore scored just 11.45 points in the same test – meaning it has fallen below the 12.5-point minimum score required by ANCAP to be eligible for five stars overall.

Asked why the 1997 VT Commodore-based VY model performed better in the offset test than the new VE, whose substantial kerb weight gain was largely attributed to its improved chassis strength and crashworthiness, Holden chairman Denny Mooney told GoAuto this week: “You know, I would tell you that, but I don’t have that data sitting in front of me.

“They were right on top of each other. I would tell you that just on that one measure, that those two cars were very similar. They pretty much performed the same,” he said.

Click here to continue article

Holden Commodore Crash Test Video
Toyota Aurion Crash Test Video
Holden Captiva Crash test Video

Official ANCAP Website
Holden & Toyota Refusing To Supply Commodores & Aurions For Independent Crash Testing
Holden & Ford Fail Quality Test, Says New Survey

redimpss5 · 06-12-2007, 01:34 AM

That must be the reason we don't get Holden's here. But if a 4 star rating is OK for Toyota's in America, then why can't I have a Holden.

ford&holden · 06-12-2007, 02:03 AM

Hmmmm here we go again...ANCAP at it again.

I have total faith in crashing a VE as much as an aurion/camry, real world anyway.
A little surprised by the results, but the VE is still a very safe car. I don't think Ford will hit 5 stars with the next new falcon.

BBDOS CV8 · 06-12-2007, 02:35 AM

Any car over 4 stars is pretty good. Over that point you start to get into the realm of diminshing returns. You get bonus points for things like a warning light in the dash, or a chime that sounds when you don't buckle up or something similar.

To get five stars you need things like knee airbags to protect you from the steering column. It looks like they tested a base Commy without curtain airbags, which in the side impact collision would have made a difference. Most of the five star cars in the world have at least seven airbags.

ATM ESC is only available in the top Camry at least until August - so it's a bit misleading to list it as '2006-on'. What can we say, another 'Drivel' shock-horror-aren't-the-local-cars-terrible headline. You have to spend a lot more money than a Commodore (or buy an expensive little car) to get 5 star ANCAP.

Butz · 06-12-2007, 03:07 AM

All the extra weight and it failed to get 5 stars. Cadillac should stick to Sigma.

demonv8 · 06-12-2007, 03:18 AM

Sad it couldn't get 5 stars, really sad.

from oz · 06-12-2007, 03:38 AM

I often wonder whether manufacturer's create cars specifically to meet NCAP's criteria for a 5star result. Is that safe??

Let's be realistic. How many car accidents are 60klms per hour; hitting a stationary object at that angle??

I know it gives a standard but really???

2b2 · 06-12-2007, 03:44 AM

27 vs 30 doesn't sound like a big deal to me - even if I thought the tests were realistic.

Otoh I'm shocked that the C'mary (w/e) didn't do better
considering it won't have the accident avoidance capability of the Commodore
all it has going for it is it's crushability & poofie parts

TKR · 06-12-2007, 04:21 AM

ANCAP is BS.
Example: The Toyota Yaris gets 4 stars in ANCAP testing but because EuroNCAP tested the Yaris with the 'safety pack' they mention the 5 star result. (Exactly the same thing happened with Corolla).

Why then do they not test the Holden VE Omega with the optional 'safety pack' which includes Side airbags and full length curtain bags? Why should VE be disadvantaged just because it is not yet sold in Europe in any volume?

Edit: For some reason 2 versions of Camry were tested, with and without SIAB and Curtain bags. Go figure? BTW: The 'Base' Commodore and the 'base' Camry get virtually the same result and VE would have beat the Camry if not for a rear door opening slightly (ANCAP are very vague about the exact details).

Link below if anyone is interested in the facts.
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/veh...ap/latest.html

TKR · 06-12-2007, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butz

All the extra weight and it failed to get 5 stars. Cadillac should stick to Sigma.

Real clever statement. Please read the fact sheet (link above). I'm sure a CTS with only front airbags would get 4 stars as well.

Xenon · 06-12-2007, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redimpss5

That must be the reason we don't get Holden's here. But if a 4 star rating is OK for Toyota's in America, then why can't I have a Holden.

Have you been under a rock latley? The Commorde is comming to the US.

Xenon · 06-12-2007, 07:12 AM

and on a second thought who cares? 4 stars dosent mean its a deathtrap.
However if a car is 3 stars or below in any rating, it would be pretty questionable in driving it.

mikmak · 06-12-2007, 07:16 AM

X2, I'd still drive one.

Patto1 · 06-12-2007, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeT

Commodore Scores 4-Star Safety

Joshua Dowling
12 June 2007
www.drive.com.au

Despite a $1 billion development budget - the most of any locally-made car - the new Holden Commodore has the same safety rating as a five-year-old Ford Falcon.

Australia cars are still not up to world class safety levels. That's the verdict according to the independent crash-test body, the Australian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP), which is funded by motoring authorities in each state and territory in Australia.

In the latest round of tests, due to be announced today, (subs: Tuesday June 12) the Toyota Aurion V6 scored 30 out of a possible 37 points, the equivalent of a "high" four-star rating, whereas Australia's biggest-selling car, the Commodore, scored 27 out of 37, the equivalent of a "mid" four-star rating and the same as a 2002 Ford Falcon.

Holden is not upset by the result - the car maker predicted the outcome after simulating the ANCAP test last year.

"We're very happy with the Commodore's performance in a real-world crash," Holden's chief engineer Tony Hyde told Drive. "We knew our car would score four stars in an ANCAP test [but] we design our cars for the real world, not just one test."

In the ANCAP tests the Commodore lost points for injuries to the chest, knees and lower legs.

Mr Hyde said Holden had done 80 crash tests and 5000 computer simulations when developing the new Commodore. "Monash University has also analysed some real world crashes, and the reports came back very positive," he said. "Accidents don't always happen at ANCAP speeds, they occur more often at lower speeds."

The ANCAP figures show Australian-made cars still lag behind the global benchmark of five stars - despite two all-new models (the Commodore and Aurion) going on sale in the past year. In Europe, car makers regularly achieve five-star ratings.

"There is room for improvement,'' the NRMA's safety expert Jack Haley told Drive. "We were hoping for a five-star car to emerge from this round of testing but we're not there yet."

A four-star score is still regarded as good, he said, and it is the minimum rating that ANCAP recommends, but "we expected five stars and we'd like to see a locally-made vehicle get there soon".

Click here to continue article

Holden Commodore Crash Test Video

Toyota Aurion Crash Test Video
Holden Captiva Crash test Video

Official ANCAP Website

Holden & Toyota Refusing To Supply Commodores & Aurions For Independent Crash Testing
Holden & Ford Fail Quality Test, Says New Survey

Don't know about you guys, but looking at these photos the Commodore looks less crumpled at the front than the Camry/Aurion (whatever

)

The Commodore looks alot more solid at the front.

Even the Commodore's front door frame hasn't buckled at the top like the Toyota.

Beats me how the Toyota just beat the Commodore judging by these photos ?

What do you guys think ?

I know which one I'd rather be in

**paul8488** · 06-12-2007, 07:27 AM

You can't judge by pics most of the time. A car with the front end entirely smashed is offentimes better than a car that shows little deformation, as most of the enegery from the crash went into the car in the former case, and into the cockpit in the latter.

06-12-2007, 01:26 AM	#1 (permalink)
JoeT GMI's Holden Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Wollongong, Australia Drives: 2003 Holden Monaro CV8 Posts: 4,851	Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results Commodore Scores 4-Star Safety Joshua Dowling 12 June 2007 www.drive.com.au Despite a $1 billion development budget - the most of any locally-made car - the new Holden Commodore has the same safety rating as a five-year-old Ford Falcon. Australia cars are still not up to world class safety levels. That's the verdict according to the independent crash-test body, the Australian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP), which is funded by motoring authorities in each state and territory in Australia. In the latest round of tests, due to be announced today, (subs: Tuesday June 12) the Toyota Aurion V6 scored 30 out of a possible 37 points, the equivalent of a "high" four-star rating, whereas Australia's biggest-selling car, the Commodore, scored 27 out of 37, the equivalent of a "mid" four-star rating and the same as a 2002 Ford Falcon. Holden is not upset by the result - the car maker predicted the outcome after simulating the ANCAP test last year. "We're very happy with the Commodore's performance in a real-world crash," Holden's chief engineer Tony Hyde told Drive. "We knew our car would score four stars in an ANCAP test [but] we design our cars for the real world, not just one test." In the ANCAP tests the Commodore lost points for injuries to the chest, knees and lower legs. Mr Hyde said Holden had done 80 crash tests and 5000 computer simulations when developing the new Commodore. "Monash University has also analysed some real world crashes, and the reports came back very positive," he said. "Accidents don't always happen at ANCAP speeds, they occur more often at lower speeds." The ANCAP figures show Australian-made cars still lag behind the global benchmark of five stars - despite two all-new models (the Commodore and Aurion) going on sale in the past year. In Europe, car makers regularly achieve five-star ratings. "There is room for improvement,'' the NRMA's safety expert Jack Haley told Drive. "We were hoping for a five-star car to emerge from this round of testing but we're not there yet." A four-star score is still regarded as good, he said, and it is the minimum rating that ANCAP recommends, but "we expected five stars and we'd like to see a locally-made vehicle get there soon". Click here to continue article Why Don't We Build A Five-Star Car? Joshua Dowling 15 June 2007 www.smh.com.au Our best-selling sedans trail the world's best safety standards. Joshua Dowling analyses how far they have to go. Despite two, all-new, "world class" sedans going on sale in the past 12 months - the Holden Commodore and Toyota Aurion - Australian makers are still some time away from producing a vehicle with a five-star safety rating. That's the verdict from the Australian New Car Assessment Program, an independent body funded by motoring authorities in each state and territory, after it released the figures from the latest round of tests this week. "There is room for improvement," says Jack Haley, the NRMA's safety expert . "We were hoping for a five-star car to emerge from this round of testing but we're not there yet." ANCAP has no legal power over the car industry; rather it relies on its publicly available star rating system to encourage car makers to lift their game. In Australia, the cars tested by ANCAP are paid for and selected by ANCAP from a random sample to ensure they are indicative of customer cars. All new cars sold in Australia meet Federal Government regulations but ANCAP and its European affiliate, EuroNCAP, were established to provide car buyers with a more transparent scoring system, to reward those vehicles whose safety is beyond the minimum requirement and to encourage cars that barely score a pass to improve. Of all the locally made cars, the Toyota Aurion V6 came closest to a five-star rating, recording a score of 30.03 out of a possible 37 points. A score of at least 32.5 is needed to reach five stars. Click here to continue article VE Safe: Holden Marton Pettendy 20 June 2007 www.goauto.com.au Holden defends its billion-dollar car as new evidence shows a lower crash score. GM Holden has defended the safety of its new VE Commodore following the four-star crash test rating it received last week from the Australasian New Car Assessment Program (ANCAP), whose test results show the billion-dollar VE recorded a lower frontal offset score than that of the VY Commodore in May 2003. Information obtained by GoAuto reveals that while its predecessor scored 12.79 points out of 16 in the offset impact test, the all-new Commodore scored just 11.45 points in the same test – meaning it has fallen below the 12.5-point minimum score required by ANCAP to be eligible for five stars overall. Asked why the 1997 VT Commodore-based VY model performed better in the offset test than the new VE, whose substantial kerb weight gain was largely attributed to its improved chassis strength and crashworthiness, Holden chairman Denny Mooney told GoAuto this week: “You know, I would tell you that, but I don’t have that data sitting in front of me. “They were right on top of each other. I would tell you that just on that one measure, that those two cars were very similar. They pretty much performed the same,” he said. Click here to continue article Holden Commodore Crash Test Video Toyota Aurion Crash Test Video Holden Captiva Crash test Video Official ANCAP Website Holden & Toyota Refusing To Supply Commodores & Aurions For Independent Crash Testing Holden & Ford Fail Quality Test, Says New Survey Last edited by JoeT : 06-20-2007 at 03:29 AM.

06-12-2007, 01:34 AM	#2 (permalink)
redimpss5 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,627	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results That must be the reason we don't get Holden's here. But if a 4 star rating is OK for Toyota's in America, then why can't I have a Holden.

06-12-2007, 02:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
ford&holden 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,949	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results Hmmmm here we go again...ANCAP at it again. I have total faith in crashing a VE as much as an aurion/camry, real world anyway. A little surprised by the results, but the VE is still a very safe car. I don't think Ford will hit 5 stars with the next new falcon.

06-12-2007, 02:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
BBDOS CV8 5.3 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Melbourne (no, not that one!) Drives: Monaro Barbados 6M Posts: 1,444	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results Any car over 4 stars is pretty good. Over that point you start to get into the realm of diminshing returns. You get bonus points for things like a warning light in the dash, or a chime that sounds when you don't buckle up or something similar. To get five stars you need things like knee airbags to protect you from the steering column. It looks like they tested a base Commy without curtain airbags, which in the side impact collision would have made a difference. Most of the five star cars in the world have at least seven airbags. ATM ESC is only available in the top Camry at least until August - so it's a bit misleading to list it as '2006-on'. What can we say, another 'Drivel' shock-horror-aren't-the-local-cars-terrible headline. You have to spend a lot more money than a Commodore (or buy an expensive little car) to get 5 star ANCAP.

06-12-2007, 03:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
demonv8 3.8 Liter V6 Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Down Under Drives: LS1 SS Commodore Posts: 459	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results Sad it couldn't get 5 stars, really sad. __________________ 2002 VX SS Commodore 5.7Ltr. Tuned to 400bhp!

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06-12-2007, 03:38 AM	#7 (permalink)
from oz 3.8 Liter V6 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Queensland Australia Drives: '07 Suzuki SX4 Hatch Posts: 374	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results I often wonder whether manufacturer's create cars specifically to meet NCAP's criteria for a 5star result. Is that safe?? Let's be realistic. How many car accidents are 60klms per hour; hitting a stationary object at that angle?? I know it gives a standard but really???

06-12-2007, 03:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
2b2 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: somewhere off highway395, US 1374304 (aka 'mudball', 'dirt',...) Posts: 1,894	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results 27 vs 30 doesn't sound like a big deal to me - even if I thought the tests were realistic. Otoh I'm shocked that the C'mary (w/e) didn't do better considering it won't have the accident avoidance capability of the Commodore all it has going for it is it's crushability & poofie parts __________________ time for a new CUTLASS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ available at your local Buick, Pontiac, OR Saturn dealer

06-12-2007, 04:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
TKR 3.8 Liter Supercharged V6 Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Zealand Drives: 2000 Toyota Hilux Diesel Posts: 695	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results ANCAP is BS. Example: The Toyota Yaris gets 4 stars in ANCAP testing but because EuroNCAP tested the Yaris with the 'safety pack' they mention the 5 star result. (Exactly the same thing happened with Corolla). Why then do they not test the Holden VE Omega with the optional 'safety pack' which includes Side airbags and full length curtain bags? Why should VE be disadvantaged just because it is not yet sold in Europe in any volume? Edit: For some reason 2 versions of Camry were tested, with and without SIAB and Curtain bags. Go figure? BTW: The 'Base' Commodore and the 'base' Camry get virtually the same result and VE would have beat the Camry if not for a rear door opening slightly (ANCAP are very vague about the exact details). Link below if anyone is interested in the facts. http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/veh...ap/latest.html Last edited by TKR : 06-12-2007 at 04:45 AM.

06-12-2007, 07:12 AM	#12 (permalink)
Xenon 6.0 Liter LS2 V8 Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4,855	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results and on a second thought who cares? 4 stars dosent mean its a deathtrap. However if a car is 3 stars or below in any rating, it would be pretty questionable in driving it. __________________

06-12-2007, 07:16 AM	#13 (permalink)
mikmak 7.0 Liter LS7 V8 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Pacific Paradise, Australia Drives: VZ Wagon and JSII sedan Posts: 8,025	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results X2, I'd still drive one. __________________ You start a conversation you cant even finish it. You're talkin a lot, but you're not sayin anything. When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed. Say something once, why say it again?

06-12-2007, 07:27 AM	#15 (permalink)
paul8488 GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: France Drives: 2007 MBK Flipper Scooter Posts: 13,352	Re: Toyota Aurion & Camry Beat Holden Commodore In Latest Crash Safety Results You can't judge by pics most of the time. A car with the front end entirely smashed is offentimes better than a car that shows little deformation, as most of the enegery from the crash went into the car in the former case, and into the cockpit in the latter. __________________ *The department of redundancy department.*

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