TMR: Holden Berlina 3.0 SIDI Sedan 1000km Challenge

[Beau]

Actually Mik. You're one of my top 5 fav's on this whole site. I just felt like you guys totally jumped all over me for my comparison, so it stung a bit. On top of hearing about the Cruze being delayed I'm a bit "freakish" read passionate myself. I'm gonna leave my post up so everyone will know where the conversation went but, I guess you're right in saying that its not a fair comparison. Since it wasn't a fair comparison I digress, 30MPG highway is pretty decent for such a large car.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Beau

Ok, guys if you're gonna be jerks about it...
I think the Passat was too big. You think that people need a LARGER car than the B6 Passat? That was plenty plenty big, enough for 5 passengers.

I'm sick and tired of bloated cars.

Let's put it this way. You guys call the Passat a SMALL car ( I think you're all F'ing nuts, I'd hate to see what you think a LARGE car is, would a LIMO suffice? ) but it's a car size that was a bit too big for me because they don't make anything in between, but it's a car that worked for me so I CAN compare it however I want so there.

Get used to larger cars, especially in width.

Side impact standards and the fact humans are getting bigger every generation are two factors that dictate wider cars, and wider cars are heavier cars since the extra width extends the length of the car and increased the weight accordingly. Lightweight materials only go so far in price/weight so it is a catch 22.

Might want to check out where VW is going on is size also, the CC is not a small car.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Get used to larger cars, especially in width.

Side impact standards and the fact humans are getting bigger every generation are two factors that dictate wider cars, and wider cars are heavier cars since the extra width extends the length of the car and increased the weight accordingly. Lightweight materials only go so far in price/weight so it is a catch 22.

Might want to check out where VW is going on is size also, the CC is not a small car.

Yeah, I know. I saw the CC. Sigh. I heard the real reason for the upsize has to do with Cafe weighting standard. By weighting I mean in terms of a algorithm standpoint. In addition to being able to charge more for a larger car that doesn't really cost a whole lot more than a smaller one.

I mean, I know there are some tubby peeps out there, but I cannot imagine anyone not being able to fit in my Aura XR, or my old Passat.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by SierraGS

Get used to larger cars, especially in width.

Side impact standards and the fact humans are getting bigger every generation are two factors that dictate wider cars, and wider cars are heavier cars since the extra width extends the length of the car and increased the weight accordingly. Lightweight materials only go so far in price/weight so it is a catch 22.

Might want to check out where VW is going on is size also, the CC is not a small car.

only in America are humans getting bigger every generation........

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

only in America are humans getting bigger every generation........

I'm not sure how this years ratings are going, but Aus overtook the US in the obese/capita stakes last year!

Here is an interesting link to one discussion.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

only in America are humans getting bigger every generation........

Are you being sarcastic?

BMW makes their cars marginally larger (WB/Width/Height) every generational update for this reason and good old physics dictates more width to allow for separation between passengers (shoulder/head to shoulder/head) as well as enough room for the side airbags to deploy with enough volume to dissipate collision energy (car side to Shoulder/head) meaning most 5 passenger cars will be 69 inches or wider.

On the post subject, 30 MPG highway is very good for such a large and capable car - great job GM/Holden.

[Masynee]

Nice review.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Beau

Yeah, I know. I saw the CC. Sigh. I heard the real reason for the upsize has to do with Cafe weighting standard. By weighting I mean in terms of a algorithm standpoint. In addition to being able to charge more for a larger car that doesn't really cost a whole lot more than a smaller one.

I mean, I know there are some tubby peeps out there, but I cannot imagine anyone not being able to fit in my Aura XR, or my old Passat.

The tubby ones are not the problem, when people get taller their shoulders tend to get wider - wider shoulders = wider cars and is why most cars will be your Aura's width in the future. To your point, cars do not have to be the size of the Zeta to be functional and widely accepted as being "big enough".

The next gen Malibu will get it right for a comfortable 5-passenger family car with the right mix of length, width and interior/cargo space. The Zeta is a great design for a RWD large performance/luxury car that is more than capable of handling a long trip for 5 adults. Two great designs for two different segments and ones that will probably share the same 3.0L engine, and if GM lives up to it's past history the 3.0L power/MPG performance will keep getting better every year.

Oh, and it probably did not hurt VW's feelings to "have" to charge more for the CC.

[BBDOS CV8]

I wasn't trying to be a jerk (I don't have to try very hard...), merely pointing out that the Commodore, is in fact a size larger. I'm sorry if I came off that way. Some people do need large cars (family, towing, business), if not of course you would have a smaller one.

And there's nothing wrong with the Passat as a fuel-efficient right-size choice. It's of course 20% more expensive than the Berlina here trim-trim, as well. But if you can swing it, it's all good. In Europe it is a family-size vehicle.

On the butt size, yes, Aussies can now be just as horizontally-challenged as anyone per capita. I am not small, being 5'11" and about 220-230lbs. so I'm doing my bit!

I know the Mormon Tabernacle Choir building now only seats about 4,500, instead of the 6,000 or so it was made for. Building hasn't got smaller, butts just got bigger!

[Deco28]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

I wasn't trying to be a jerk (I don't have to try very hard...), merely pointing out that the Commodore, is in fact a size larger. I'm sorry if I came off that way. Some people do need large cars (family, towing, business), if not of course you would have a smaller one.

And there's nothing wrong with the Passat as a fuel-efficient right-size choice. It's of course 20% more expensive than the Berlina here trim-trim, as well. But if you can swing it, it's all good. In Europe it is a family-size vehicle.

On the butt size, yes, Aussies can now be just as horizontally-challenged as anyone per capita. I am not small, being 5'11" and about 220-230lbs. so I'm doing my bit!

I know the Mormon Tabernacle Choir building now only seats about 4,500, instead of the 6,000 or so it was made for. Building hasn't got smaller, butts just got bigger!

I look down on you :P.

Finally a publication has tested the Commodores claims and in a real life driving situation. Ford was looking fro the third knock-out blow to the Commy, but I think it just delivered one of its own.

[isszy]

Beau, the other point you may have missed (or not, I don't know) it that while your Passat was a 192HP vehicle, the Commodore is a 190Kw car, ie 254 HP. The Commodore has a heap more power than a Passat - enough to tow 2100kg easily.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

I wasn't trying to be a jerk (I don't have to try very hard...), merely pointing out that the Commodore, is in fact a size larger. I'm sorry if I came off that way. Some people do need large cars (family, towing, business), if not of course you would have a smaller one.

And there's nothing wrong with the Passat as a fuel-efficient right-size choice. It's of course 20% more expensive than the Berlina here trim-trim, as well. But if you can swing it, it's all good. In Europe it is a family-size vehicle.

On the butt size, yes, Aussies can now be just as horizontally-challenged as anyone per capita. I am not small, being 5'11" and about 220-230lbs. so I'm doing my bit!

I know the Mormon Tabernacle Choir building now only seats about 4,500, instead of the 6,000 or so it was made for. Building hasn't got smaller, butts just got bigger!

Ahh, you weren't being a jerk. Just me being sensitive I guess, no worries brotha.

Still though, I am quite frustrated that there just doesn't seem to be a car out there that caters to me, one that I could afford.

I'm 5'10 170-175 lbs... Pretty small frames. I care about...
Performance [tuneability], uniqueness, aesthetics, price, fuel economy, reliability.
I don't care about crazy "cool" features, or excessive safety stuff a few airbags'll do. I don't care about the vehicle being large or able to climb an ice mountain in the winter. I don't need to haul a soccer team or save the planet by burning CO2 from my mouth and turning it into daisys.

Honestly the only car that comes up isn't even made yet Toyota FT86, but even then it's a boxer 4 which I don't care for the sound.

[RedVee8]

Good work Holden.
The old "Sydney-Melbourne (or Sydney-Brisbane) on a tank" seems to resonate to the public a lot better than "hooray 9.1 litres per 100 kilometres".

Beau - I have been a bit frustrated over the last few years trying to find a car that suits as well. Happy with the ones I have, though it was a bit of a "journey" to select them.