Re-Engineered Commodore To Be More Economical Than Camry, Says Holden

[FenwickHockey65]

I think the original article misquoted the guy, it should be a 20% improvement in fuel economy, since that's basically what the article focused on.

[BigAls87Z28]

Well then...

Aluminum should be used more for the Commodore. Sounds like they want to make an XFE model.
How about Holden works with Opel to push foward a 3.0DI V6 making 260hp to replace the base 3.6 SFI engine? That in itself could reduce gas consuption as well as decrease emissions.
Problem with VE and Zeta is that they are built to handle up to or more then 500hp. If you preengineer that strength into the chassis ahead of time, there is less weight gain as the power goes up.
Look at the Mustang GT. 300hp V8 and 3500lbs, 200lbs lighter then a V6 Camaro with 300hp.
BUT a 500hp GT500 comes in at 2 tons. Thats 500lbs additional. Cant be ALL iron engine. Its cause the chassis needed additional work to handle the power.
But with Camaro, the car was designed to take 500hp and weight is minimal gain from the V6 to V8, most is related to larger brakes, wheels and tires as well as 6spd manual trans

[FenwickHockey65]

whoops, never mind. Looks like this was a repost.
Delete please.

[Rick_VT]

Everyone wants more features in their car and to be safer but unfortunately everything u add to the car makes it heavier and with raw material prices shooting up it makes it even harder to go for the higher strength steel, its time GM and Ford got together to purchase large amounts of aluminium for their cars and trucks, at least buying together they can get more and save money to, maybe they could even build a place together to make all the parts they need for it, im sure some state over there would give a good deal on land and taxes to get some people in work. They could even purchase on behalf of there Australian operations to.

Would be nice if Holden could put out some version of BAS for the Commodore though, anyone have any idea how much that could save on fuel?? Does BAS weigh much to add to a car to?

[davidlane]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Well then...

Aluminum should be used more for the Commodore. Sounds like they want to make an XFE model.
How about Holden works with Opel to push foward a 3.0DI V6 making 260hp to replace the base 3.6 SFI engine? That in itself could reduce gas consuption as well as decrease emissions.
Problem with VE and Zeta is that they are built to handle up to or more then 500hp. If you preengineer that strength into the chassis ahead of time, there is less weight gain as the power goes up.
Look at the Mustang GT. 300hp V8 and 3500lbs, 200lbs lighter then a V6 Camaro with 300hp.
BUT a 500hp GT500 comes in at 2 tons. Thats 500lbs additional. Cant be ALL iron engine. Its cause the chassis needed additional work to handle the power.
But with Camaro, the car was designed to take 500hp and weight is minimal gain from the V6 to V8, most is related to larger brakes, wheels and tires as well as 6spd manual trans

Unfortunately the GM approach saddles all the units with the additional weight regardless of the take rate for the higher horse power units. This means poorer fuel economy for the buyers opting for the lower performance versions. With the new CAFE regs it also makes it more difficult for GM to reach their CAFE requirements, potential fines. It doesn't help with the handling either, see Lotus. In addition, from what I've read, the next generation Mustang will have higher horse power ratings, better fuel economy and weigh less. GM is really going to have to do better than they are, especially where weight and space utilization are concerned, if they want to be competitive i.e. stop losing money in North America by the cubic yard.

[davidlane]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Well then...

How about Holden works with Opel to push foward a 3.0DI V6 making 260hp to replace the base 3.6 SFI engine? That in itself could reduce gas consuption as well as decrease emissions.

How about they use the two existing versions of the 2.8 liter from Saab. For that matter that might have been a better choice for the CTS in lieu of the two versions of the 3.6. And if GM would add direct injection to the 2.8 it definitely would be a better choice, IMO, more performance and probably better fuel economy.

[free_energy0]

Originally Posted by commodorecoops

And Camaro.

The reason the Camaro is overweight is because of Au-designed Zeta. Not every car nedds to have the chassis rigeidity of a brick ***** house, especially in light of energy trends. Hence Zetas limited implementation and shelf life.

[redTT]

Not only is Holden introducing the Italian designed diesel in the coming years they are also introducing LPG and E85, I truly believe in this energy diversity program.

Weight savings must be a priority in the short term. Holden's are typically built like a brick and so needs to loose weight. Weight loss could help in fuel, tyre wear, brake wear, handling, stopping, and overall performance. As a performance enthusiast weight loss is a great thing.

If Holden does decide to use aluminum they should contact some local producers, they should be able to provide Holden with any materials at a cheaper price than America.

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by free_energy0

Not every car nedds to have the chassis rigeidity of a brick ***** house.......

That's quote of the month material right there

Really though, hopefully some of Holden's advancements can prove themselves to be worthwhile here in NA

[Frankster177]

Cant win.
You want BMW levels of rigidity and handling.

Now the Zeta is too heavy.
sheesh

[mmciau]

A lot of the added weights over the last 10 years or so is because interest groups eg Australian College of Surgeons and the Australian Medical Association have lobbied governments for greater safety aids to be included in vehicles

ABS, ESP, mutiple bag systems are but a few where weight has been added. On top of that Holden never want to see cars that fracture across the rear parcel shelf (C Pillar area) like a batch of overseas GM cars that were being evaluated for use in Australia did.

Mike

[jbernie]

Originally Posted by mmciau

A lot of the added weights over the last 10 years or so is because interest groups eg Australian College of Surgeons and the Australian Medical Association have lobbied governments for greater safety aids to be included in vehicles

ABS, ESP, mutiple bag systems are but a few where weight has been added. On top of that Holden never want to see cars that fracture across the rear parcel shelf (C Pillar area) like a batch of overseas GM cars that were being evaluated for use in Australia did.

Mike

Don't forget the media loves to criticise every vehicle that doesn't contain a full size spare as standard even if it is offered as a no cost option. Too many vehicles never leave the city let alone get onto dirt for just a few meters. Yet the media think that one must have a full size spare and the associated weight in the trunk.

Though I applaud Holden for heading in this direction, the more efficent they can make the base vehicle the more efficent it will be when it is offered in a hybrid format. Also, getting the v6 models close, say within 0.5L per 100km makes it a more serious competitor/option to the 4 cylinders.

[BBDOS CV8]

Holden can introduce some things that won't affect the core structure of the car. Like the lightweight plastic used for the tailgate of the Malloo, cast in one piece including the inner panel, strong enough for a big man to jump up and down on. That can be used for bonnets, boots and other non-critical panels.

I applaud Holden for keeping a certain degree of strength in their cars using steel, going down the exotic alloys path for main body components is going to produce a more disposable and expensive product with a higher mean write-off rate. Or more lives will be put at risk in cars with compromised and improperly-repaired crash structures, as is happening now.

Just bolting in a smaller motor won't produce sizable fuel savings if everything else stays the same.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by poncho1982

Umm, I hate to break it to you, but if Holden is doing it, then GM is doing it. You think they opperate autonomously?

To a degree yes they still do operate autonomously, GM NA said that with the new fuel economy standards that you cant make a big RWD car get good mileage. If Holden was not operating autonomously then they wouldn't even try as well however they said that they will do it.

The truth is that when GM said that it was because they didn't want to get rid of any of their trucks and suvs and instead of saying that because everyone would look at them like they are crazy they just said that it cant be done and all of the car fans blamed the government.........

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

Holden can introduce some things that won't affect the core structure of the car. Like the lightweight plastic used for the tailgate of the Malloo, cast in one piece including the inner panel, strong enough for a big man to jump up and down on. That can be used for bonnets, boots and other non-critical panels.

I applaud Holden for keeping a certain degree of strength in their cars using steel, going down the exotic alloys path for main body components is going to produce a more disposable and expensive product with a higher mean write-off rate. Or more lives will be put at risk in cars with compromised and improperly-repaired crash structures, as is happening now.

Just bolting in a smaller motor won't produce sizable fuel savings if everything else stays the same.

I agree with you 100%.

I think that if Holden is able to drop 100 pounds of weight, improve under body airflow, replace the 3.6L V-6 with the 3.0L direct injected unit making 260BHP and mate it to the 6 speed auto I think that they would be able to get some great fuel economy from the Commodore and its not something that is way out of the question.

I think that at least they can try to do this rather then say it cant be done therefor not do it.

If they are able to drop enough weight off of the car then maybe they can make a 2.4L direct injected ecotec mated to a 6 speed and drop it in the car.