New Ford Falcon First Drive: "Best Large Car Down Under"

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

I could be unkind say you are clutching at straws based on the few crumbs from the table.

My opinion is my opinion. I wouldn't buy one on looks as I think it's gone backwards ever since BF Series 1 which was a more coherent looking car than the VZ; and if as reported the driving position is unchanged. I don't think the rest is different enough and not $800mil worth. I'm not likely to buy anything new soon, as I intend to keep the Monaro for as long as I can and the missus will buy something smaller. People are impressed by the turbo six, and 0-100 times are important but not decision makers, especially when considering premium fuel prices.

Both the 6 and 8 are in their final reviison - dead end.

Where does Ford go with it for the remaining years of it's life when the DI V6 appears later this year, and the sixspeed on the upperspec Holdens with the entry level getting the 195/5-speed combo?

I don't see a lot has changed over the BF to encourage anyone other than fleet-lease to get one. Whether fact or just perception the VE looked and felt a quantum leap over VZ. The FG? Just seems overall, marginal improvement wth some gains, some losses.

Let's wait for the comparos.

Few crumbs? I haven't pointed anything out that hasn't been mentioned by the people who test cars for a living.
Your opinion exactly, did i say the VEs styling was worse of better than FG, i think they both have elements that are weak and strong, no vehicle is perfect from styling perpective.

Not 800 million worth, must be your opinion again as i don't think VE was 1.2 billion worth when you consider what Ford AUS does with a unique RHD only platform selling the volume it sells. VE should easily beat any current falcon based on availability of worldwide hardware and technology, it simply doesn't.

0-100KL/H times aren't deal busters but you like many crow at Holden having V8s that beat Ford V8s. Turbo power is simply more efficient in the day and age we live in, watch Holden boast about the same atributes when they finally add a turbo the the HF V6.

Both 6 and 8 are on borrowed time, and your point?? What did Holden do in the same situation, simply took engines of the shelf out of the US, Ford will do the same.
Did you read the article about falcon and terriotry getting diesel power come 2010?
Not sure what you're talking about when Holden gets DI and 6speed in thier upper series?? Ford is already there, Holden is playing catch up when it comes to 6cyl drivetrain.
When does DI REALLY arrive for Holden? No guesses, some fact for a change.

Your opinion again states you don't see why people whould buy an FG over a BF11.
Did you see the same journos commented on the fact that Ford didn't make the leap VE did over VZ as FG is coming from a stronger base?
I'll say this again, FG is better in every measurable area than BF11, not something VE can say over VZ.
Thats digging deep on your part to find something FG falls short on.

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

Not 800 million worth, must be your opinion again as i don't think VE was 1.2 billion worth when you consider what Ford AUS does with a unique RHD only platform selling the volume it sells. VE should easily beat any current falcon based on availability of worldwide hardware and technology, it simply doesn't.

0-100KL/H times aren't deal busters but you like many crow at Holden having V8s that beat Ford V8s. Turbo power is simply more efficient in the day and age we live in, watch Holden boast about the same atributes when they finally add a turbo the the HF V6.

Both 6 and 8 are on borrowed time, and your point?? What did Holden do in the same situation, simply took engines of the shelf out of the US, Ford will do the same.
Did you read the article about falcon and terriotry getting diesel power come 2010?
Not sure what you're talking about when Holden gets DI and 6speed in thier upper series?? Ford is already there, Holden is playing catch up when it comes to 6cyl drivetrain.
When does DI REALLY arrive for Holden? No guesses, some fact for a change.

Your opinion again states you don't see why people whould buy an FG over a BF11.
Did you see the same journos commented on the fact that Ford didn't make the leap VE did over VZ as FG is coming from a stronger base?
I'll say this again, FG is better in every measurable area than BF11, not something VE can say over VZ.
Thats digging deep on your part to find something FG falls short on.

But VE does exceed Falcon in many areas.
Not a single Falcon has been sold with curtain airbags, out for 18 months on Holdens - FACT
Ford playing catchup but still muffs big chance to get standard 5-star car- FACT
Ford's hightech V8 specially assembled out of 'bought off the shelf in pieces from USA' - still not comparable to nine-year old crate Holden engine - FACT
Ford buys in Garrett AiResearch turbo and Bosch engine management- not developed here - FACT
Ford buys in same manual trans as Holden and imported German-designed auto, not developed here, except bellhousing - FACT
Every version of the VE V8 outperforms every Ford and FPV V8 - FACT
VE Holden has been and will be made in greater numbers and sold in more places than Falcon - FACT

I think there's plenty of areas where the VE is demonstrably 'more' car. That's just a few.

I read this

When does DI REALLY arrive for Holden? No guesses, some fact for a change.

Then in the next para.

Did you read the article about falcon and terriotry getting diesel power come 2010?

This isn't the first time you 've demanded I prove something, while you quote sources.....

To borrow MikMak's line; Pot to kettle, pot to kettle: you are black, you are black, over!

[Generation IV]

Are you completely insane f&h? The Boss 290 achieved absolutely horrible fuel consumption, terrible, one of the worst in its class. Last year it had an average of 15.8L/100km, thats dreadful for an average. The LS2 had an average of 13.2L/100km and I would say that is an excellent result considering its a big pushrod V8. In every way the Boss V8 is far less superior to the LS2/LS3. It's heavier, physically bigger, narrow power band, slightly low amount of torque for what it is, fuel guzzler and if you want it to be serviced or something replaced, it has to be an engine out job because its just so massive, its rediculous.

What did Holden do in the same situation, simply took engines of the shelf out of the US, Ford will do the same.

The difference being, Ford will just cut and paste the engines, while Holden/HSv modify them quite extensively for them to be used here and for them to be unique and have more respectable power and torque outputs.

Not sure what you're talking about when Holden gets DI and 6speed in thier upper series?? Ford is already there, Holden is playing catch up when it comes to 6cyl drivetrain.

What? Ford hasn't used DI in its 6, nice one f&h. We all know DI is in the works for the Commodore, and you can't possibly deny that, they're looking at that more extensively than diesel, a 6-speed for the V6s is also in the works. The 6L50 has already been spoken about with Denny Mooney that it will see the light of day in a Commodore. I know that you know all this f&h, your not that stupid.

I'll say this again, FG is better in every measurable area than BF11, not something VE can say over VZ.

Ummmm? excuse me? How can you possibly say the VE hasn't improved over the VZ in every way, it just has. Now you've really blown this one out of the ball park f&h. I've got a couple of angry people and journos who are willing to disagree with you.

These FGs were tested on PUBLIC roads for over 500klms, not 10 mins, stick to the facts

Yet each journo states that they need more time to inspect areas of the Falcon to compare it with the VE. It was 500km all up f&h. How many journos were there? They only got a few minutes each. Not 500kms each. They would've been there for weeks.

To say VE looks more modern than FG is desperate.

The VE does look more modern than the FG. The FG is still laden with BF styling elements. The tailights are just more curved versions of the BF, the headlights are just trimmer versions of the BF's. The entire body is just the same but a little cut here and there. I would say the VE is muscular, modern and contemporary. The FG will date very easily because it looks to similar to the BF. And the FPV's? Don't get me started. They are almost reading straight out of HSV's design book. The black mask? A modified version of the E-Series foglights and its surrounding.

I've already stated Holden does better V8 performance. Where is the world heading for fuel consumption and V8s in general? Not bigger and thirstier which is where Holden has headed every time commodore has had an update since VT. Are you aware Ford US is developing a new 6.2L V8?

Nice of you to ignore the fact that the fuel consumption has decreased regardless of increased capacity. I knew you'd leave that out. The 6.2l LS3 is apparently better on fuel than the LS2, so there another marked improvement. And I thought you said that large V8s are about to be a thing of the past. Then why make note of Fords development of a 6.2L in the US? Odd, almost a backwards remark there. And Ford Aus won't adopt it because they've already said performance 6's are more focused lately and the FG has almost no V8 variants, only one, slow XR8.

So VE suffers a hasher ride, less dynamic control, worse NVH, worse fuel consumption and rack rattle that can be heard, not felt is the sole trade off...? I know which i'll take.

And you know the FG is perfect because you can travel into the future....right. The VE is a brand new car, its obvious there will be some flaws, they are being ironed out. The worst recall so far is the possibility of a faulty fuel hose in the V8s and V6s. There weren't any complaints, just precautions, and I would say thats a pretty good record considering its brand new. The FG may not suffer the same fate, true, mainly because its just a pretty AU, not all new. Harsher ride? Less Dynamic control? Right, go bite your nails in the corner f&h, the VE is one of the best handling cars today, ride is also excellent. Even the journos reckon so, they also reckon its surpassed BMW. Or are you about to say that its a farse? Typical.

Yes that would be the 6cyl and what is the VE V8, still 50/50? My point is Ford has a disadvantage to begin with yet somehow does a better job tuning FGs primary hardware to work better than Holden does with VE hardware...

Probably, I wouldn't be surprised if the V8 still has a 50/50 weight distribution, maybe 51/49, but the difference here is that the L98 and LS2 don't weigh 10,000kg unlike the Boss, so its not a stretch of the imagination to assume so.

My point is Ford has a disadvantage to begin with yet somehow does a better job tuning FGs primary hardware to work better than Holden does with VE hardware...

How do you know all this????????? Its not possible for you to know all this. Are you stoned? Your either that or you can transport back and forwards through time. How the hell do you know how Ford program the FG, let alone its better than the VE???

Option up curtain airbags and alloys to match VE and the weight penalty will be similar as VE weighs more for the same reasons you claim Ford omits these items

And if you do option for alloys, curtain airbags, bluetooth, etc, how much will the XT cost then? Around $40,000. Alloys would be around $1500-$2000, curtain airbags? $800, bluetooth? $200. Its just not as well priced and well equipped. And so what if the Omega has only just got those things? Its got them doesn't it?

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

But VE does exceed Falcon in many areas.
Not a single Falcon has been sold with curtain airbags, out for 18 months on Holdens - FACT
Ford playing catchup but still muffs big chance to get standard 5-star car- FACT
Ford's hightech V8 specially assembled out of 'bought off the shelf in pieces from USA' - still not comparable to nine-year old crate Holden engine - FACT
Ford buys in Garrett AiResearch turbo and Bosch engine management- not developed here - FACT
Ford buys in same manual trans as Holden and imported German-designed auto, not developed here, except bellhousing - FACT
Every version of the VE V8 outperforms every Ford and FPV V8 - FACT
VE Holden has been and will be made in greater numbers and sold in more places than Falcon - FACT

I think there's plenty of areas where the VE is demonstrably 'more' car. That's just a few.

I read this



Then in the next para.



This isn't the first time you 've demanded I prove something, while you quote sources.....

To borrow MikMak's line; Pot to kettle, pot to kettle: you are black, you are black, over!

Are you serious? Whats your point again? oh, you're not talking about a vehicle cohesive abilities.
Ford has stated they will submit a free FG for a pole test, Holden and Toyota declined. Thats what is required for a 5 star rating.

How many times must i say the Holdens V8s outdo Fords V8s??

Would you like me to link the source in relation to diesel power?

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25742700204763

I still don't see YOUR proof about DI which i hear lots of Holden fans boys talking about but see no information from Holden ro any auto related website.

I watched with amusment how you and many discounted FG even before is was released, whos eating some of thier words now?
My answer to you is simply read the test drives of FG NOW and watch this sapce for direct comparisons to VE...

[teamkiwiracing]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

Splitting hairs?

VE still have a 50/50 weight balance while FG is about 53/47 yet handles better, why?

Where did this 53/47 figure come from may i ask, i havent read all the articles so i may come across the answer soon?

Originally Posted by ford&holden

Holdens V8s aren't better than Ford V8s for fuel consumption, only performance and the FPVs have not been tested yet, only XR8.

FG is simply a better overall package than VE, accept it Gen IV

If i recall correctly, the Boss XXX has always had better fuel economy on paper than the L98, yet never/rearly ever beats the L98 in real world test conducted by Wheels/Motor/Drive/GoAuto/Carpoint. Most times it exceeds the Fuel Consumption label by a considerable amount. Have a look at previous articles and you will see that the Boss XXX has 9 times out ten been a thirstier beast than the L98.

Every official fuel rating has FG better than VE, wanna bet the real world comparison reviews will show the same?

Maybe that why the XR8's so slow...Ford wanting better fuel Econ. Ill just wait for the comparisions to see where the Xr8 is.

I've already stated Holden does better V8 performance. Where is the world heading for fuel consumption and V8s in general? Not bigger and thirstier which is where Holden has headed every time commodore has had an update since VT. Are you aware Ford US is developing a new 6.2L V8?

Is that last bit a jok,e if not you seem to contradict your elf, bagging Holden for bring out bigger engines yet boasting about ford releasing a bigger engine?

Anyway Holden do have DOD up their sleeves and is rumoured to be introduced in the next update. If has been suggested that it can save between 10 - 20 % in fuel consumption, thou we will have to wait to see what the actual figure is when its released here. The perception of a V8 using less fuel and can shut down to 4 cylinders is a great marketing tool and is usually well received by the general public. Just look at the warm reception to the new V6 Honda Accord. What do Ford have??

To be honest if Ford can get thier turbo 6cyl to perform like thism who cares about a V8,

The purists do, the V8 fans do, V8 Supercar fans and the loyalist! there are a lot of ppl that will continue to buy a V8 over a Turbo 6, as we have seen and herad about many previous ford owners have turned to Holden for V8s rather than buying a T6. Is is one of the contributing factors as to why V8 sales are at record numbers?????

FPV outsold HSV with Turbo power before the VE series was launched, Holden needs turbo power for the HF V6 sooner or later.

FPV have never out sold HSV!!!

Not 800 million worth, must be your opinion again as i don't think VE was 1.2 billion worth when you consider what Ford AUS does with a unique RHD only platform selling the volume it sells. VE should easily beat any current falcon based on availability of worldwide hardware and technology, it simply doesn't.

I reckon the 1.2 billion was well worth it considering alot of it went to plant and tooling upgrades ($500 Million???). So in hindsight the sedan cost $700 to develop and design, which is money well spent in order to design car flexiable to meet different markets home and abroad rather than just for Australia and NZ (equals increase in development cost for studies into LHD etc) By the way the FG carries alot more components from the BF/Territory than what the VE did. (Equals more development cost for Holden)

Did you read the article about falcon and terriotry getting diesel power come 2010?
Not sure what you're talking about when Holden gets DI and 6speed in thier upper series?? Ford is already there, Holden is playing catch up when it comes to 6cyl drivetrain.
When does DI REALLY arrive for Holden? No guesses, some fact for a change.

Varoius media outlets have suggested DI will be available on the next update. Diesel will be 18 months away from what ive read on the net and in local Mags. Anyway why would a manufacture tell its customer when a new motor is coming years before its releases, it makes no business sense, hence the reason as to why Holden havent released any info. It also keeps there competitors guess too.


Anyway, i firmly believe that the FG is goming t be a great Car, though the Margins of greatness over the VE will not be as great as some may claim i to be. no doubt that at the end of the day, buyers are going to be blessed with the great choices available to them and should be thankful for it.

[nota]

So far the FG looks good in pics, entirely competitive to my eye and thankfully without the BAS BS element. Like VE it is reputedly more attractive in the metal, and this Osbourne character is right in saying that Ford needs to get the message out to buyers as to its apparent competence, and perception of it being (at least) an equal competitor to the much ballyhoo'd VE.

Both VE and FG now use a French-sourced 5-speed auto. I guess this would be a related transmission?

I notice the non-appearance of a turbo-LPG engine variant for the 6-cyl, which is a real pity imho.


Btw iirc the old AU sported a claimed cD of .295

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by Generation IV

Are you completely insane f&h? The Boss 290 achieved absolutely horrible fuel consumption, terrible, one of the worst in its class. Last year it had an average of 15.8L/100km, thats dreadful for an average. The LS2 had an average of 13.2L/100km and I would say that is an excellent result considering its a big pushrod V8. In every way the Boss V8 is far less superior to the LS2/LS3. It's heavier, physically bigger, narrow power band, slightly low amount of torque for what it is, fuel guzzler and if you want it to be serviced or something replaced, it has to be an engine out job because its just so massive, its rediculous.



The difference being, Ford will just cut and paste the engines, while Holden/HSv modify them quite extensively for them to be used here and for them to be unique and have more respectable power and torque outputs.

Please do some research Gen IV!! Who currently imports V8 engines from the US? both Ford and Holden, the difference being Ford modifies the 5.4L far more than Holden does the 6.0L V8. When Ford imports the new 6.2, it will do what Holden does and modify less of the V8.
Now can you stop your ***** dramatics yet?

Originally Posted by Generation IV

What? Ford hasn't used DI in its 6, nice one f&h. We all know DI is in the works for the Commodore, and you can't possibly deny that, they're looking at that more extensively than diesel, a 6-speed for the V6s is also in the works. The 6L50 has already been spoken about with Denny Mooney that it will see the light of day in a Commodore. I know that you know all this f&h, your not that stupid.

Not sure what you on about here!? I asked when DI would be used, not if...
No one seems to be able to give me an introductory time frame, yet it's talked about as VE saviour against the FG.

Originally Posted by Generation IV

ummmm? excuse me? How can you possibly say the VE hasn't improved over the VZ in every way, it just has. Now you've really blown this one out of the ball park f&h. I've got a couple of angry people and journos who are willing to disagree with you.

Ummm fuel consumption went up on many models, visibility is worse, the 4 speed auto was retained, no split fold seats.
I'm waiting for those angry people and journos!

Originally Posted by Generation IV

Yet each journo states that they need more time to inspect areas of the Falcon to compare it with the VE. It was 500km all up f&h. How many journos were there? They only got a few minutes each. Not 500kms each. They would've been there for weeks.

You really are desparate.
What was the point of this test drive Gen IV???

Originally Posted by Generation IV

The VE does look more modern than the FG. The FG is still laden with BF styling elements. The tailights are just more curved versions of the BF, the headlights are just trimmer versions of the BF's. The entire body is just the same but a little cut here and there. I would say the VE is muscular, modern and contemporary. The FG will date very easily because it looks to similar to the BF. And the FPV's? Don't get me started. They are almost reading straight out of HSV's design book. The black mask? A modified version of the E-Series foglights and its surrounding.

Styling is subjective, just ask BBDOS CV8
So VEs headlight and grille designs don't look like 02 BA falcons? The high set arse on VE sedans doesn't resemble VZs? The only line of attack you have is styling. I'm still waiting on the info YOU SHOULD supply outlining the carry over features of AU into FG??????????????

Originally Posted by Generation IV

Nice of you to ignore the fact that the fuel consumption has decreased regardless of increased capacity. I knew you'd leave that out. The 6.2l LS3 is apparently better on fuel than the LS2, so there another marked improvement. And I thought you said that large V8s are about to be a thing of the past. Then why make note of Fords development of a 6.2L in the US? Odd, almost a backwards remark there. And Ford Aus won't adopt it because they've already said performance 6's are more focused lately and the FG has almost no V8 variants, only one, slow XR8.

I never said V8s are a thing of the past, i said the world is no longer focusing on large V8 RWD sedans, even GMs own, Bob lutz has admitted the Zeta program has had to be scaled back due to impending US fuel economy sdandards.
I've actually head the new 6.2 is worse for official fuel consumption in the HSVs, not better.

Originally Posted by Generation IV

And you know the FG is perfect because you can travel into the future....right. The VE is a brand new car, its obvious there will be some flaws, they are being ironed out. The worst recall so far is the possibility of a faulty fuel hose in the V8s and V6s. There weren't any complaints, just precautions, and I would say thats a pretty good record considering its brand new. The FG may not suffer the same fate, true, mainly because its just a pretty AU, not all new. Harsher ride? Less Dynamic control? Right, go bite your nails in the corner f&h, the VE is one of the best handling cars today, ride is also excellent. Even the journos reckon so, they also reckon its surpassed BMW. Or are you about to say that its a farse? Typical.

You can't debate can you? you bring bullsh*t up to cloud any sort of clear outcome.
VE has flaws, so will the FG, it was BBDOS CV8 who brought up selected aspects of FG in pre-production models that are issues, i said the FG is the better devil to know, it is, get over it.
Yes the VE is good, FG is a better again...so hard to admit that hey!?

Originally Posted by Generation IV

Probably, I wouldn't be surprised if the V8 still has a 50/50 weight distribution, maybe 51/49, but the difference here is that the L98 and LS2 don't weigh 10,000kg unlike the Boss, so its not a stretch of the imagination to assume so.

So you guys can guess, predict and talk while i've pointed out what the journos have said, nothing made up from my head like you.
BBDOS CV8 brought up weight balance of the V8FG, but not the VEV8 why not? VE V8s don't have 50/50.
The point you have missed, AGAIN is that Ford appears to have better engineers who tune and package the FG together better than Holden engineers who do VE which have a better primary base to work with!? Do you understand that yet?
Holden has better primary hardware than Ford yet can't execute like Ford can!!




How do you know all this????????? Its not possible for you to know all this. Are you stoned? Your either that or you can transport back and forwards through time. How the hell do you know how Ford program the FG, let alone its better than the VE???

Originally Posted by Generation IV

And if you do option for alloys, curtain airbags, bluetooth, etc, how much will the XT cost then? Around $40,000. Alloys would be around $1500-$2000, curtain airbags? $800, bluetooth? $200. Its just not as well priced and well equipped. And so what if the Omega has only just got those things? Its got them doesn't it?

I'm stoned? read the options pack for the FG you moron!!
Omega is $300,00 more than FG at the start, curtain airbags are a $300,00 option on FG, while Alloys have been quoted at $500,00.
How do you option omega up with an engine, transmission, dynamic set and automatic climate control to match FG XT, you can't...

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by teamkiwiracing

Where did this 53/47 figure come from may i ask, i havent read all the articles so i may come across the answer soon?



If i recall correctly, the Boss XXX has always had better fuel economy on paper than the L98, yet never/rearly ever beats the L98 in real world test conducted by Wheels/Motor/Drive/GoAuto/Carpoint. Most times it exceeds the Fuel Consumption label by a considerable amount. Have a look at previous articles and you will see that the Boss XXX has 9 times out ten been a thirstier beast than the L98.

Maybe that why the XR8's so slow...Ford wanting better fuel Econ. Ill just wait for the comparisions to see where the Xr8 is.



Is that last bit a jok,e if not you seem to contradict your elf, bagging Holden for bring out bigger engines yet boasting about ford releasing a bigger engine?

Anyway Holden do have DOD up their sleeves and is rumoured to be introduced in the next update. If has been suggested that it can save between 10 - 20 % in fuel consumption, thou we will have to wait to see what the actual figure is when its released here. The perception of a V8 using less fuel and can shut down to 4 cylinders is a great marketing tool and is usually well received by the general public. Just look at the warm reception to the new V6 Honda Accord. What do Ford have??



The purists do, the V8 fans do, V8 Supercar fans and the loyalist! there are a lot of ppl that will continue to buy a V8 over a Turbo 6, as we have seen and herad about many previous ford owners have turned to Holden for V8s rather than buying a T6. Is is one of the contributing factors as to why V8 sales are at record numbers?????

FPV have never out sold HSV!!!



I reckon the 1.2 billion was well worth it considering alot of it went to plant and tooling upgrades ($500 Million???). So in hindsight the sedan cost $700 to develop and design, which is money well spent in order to design car flexiable to meet different markets home and abroad rather than just for Australia and NZ (equals increase in development cost for studies into LHD etc) By the way the FG carries alot more components from the BF/Territory than what the VE did. (Equals more development cost for Holden)

Varoius media outlets have suggested DI will be available on the next update. Diesel will be 18 months away from what ive read on the net and in local Mags. Anyway why would a manufacture tell its customer when a new motor is coming years before its releases, it makes no business sense, hence the reason as to why Holden havent released any info. It also keeps there competitors guess too.


Anyway, i firmly believe that the FG is goming t be a great Car, though the Margins of greatness over the VE will not be as great as some may claim i to be. no doubt that at the end of the day, buyers are going to be blessed with the great choices available to them and should be thankful for it.

I have read on one source the FG has a balance of 47/53.

I've said that VE V8s outdo FG V8s, while 6ycl performance is the reverse. Nothing has changed there.
BBDOS CV8 made the statement that Fgs 6 and 8 are at a dead end. I countered with the fact Ford US has a new 6.2 V8, that doens't change my view that the world is less concered with V8s. Take a look whos buying the V8s, it's not the majority of VEs current sales.
Yes, yes there is motor sport which is far less important than what is was even 10 years agao, looking at falcon and commodore sales will support that.
The reality is more fuel efficient solutions are needed, if diesel is optional on future falcs/commos we aren't going to see diesel supercars flying around the track.
If Holden actually had better 6cyl drivetrains you might see VE sales with less V8 mix in then and only then are FPV and HSV doing a good trade on V8 sales, not the lower models.
What sells more SV6 or SS V8s? i'm betting the 6cyl model. The same will happen with Ford who does have better 6ycl engines.
Cylinder deactivation? Yeah GM and Crylser has seen miminal benefits in the real world, more marketing than anything else.
Hondas V6 has yet to show big fuel economy gains also, mind you comparing Honda V6s with Holdens V8 for cylinder deactivation isn't a good comparison.
Fords duratec V6 has many features that match the alloytec V6 up it's sleeve also.

FPV has outsold HSV in the past, thank you. The only reason Holden or HSV don't push 6cyl performance is the fact they have no option available currently.
Remember the XU6 from HSV?

I countered BBDOS CV8 about the VE vers FG development costs, IMO they both were cheap to develop but to say FG was expensive is silly, VE is expensive if thats the case.

No FG won't be a big advance over VE, as VE wasn't over a 5 year old BA. BA was the big advance over VY mind you. We aren't going to see those sorts of advances anylonger.
The point is Holden fan boys like Gen IV spit crap out when in reality FG is will be a leap over VE just like VF should be over FG.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by nota

So far the FG looks good in pics, entirely competitive to my eye and thankfully without the BAS BS element. Like VE it is reputedly more attractive in the metal, and this Osbourne character is right in saying that Ford needs to get the message out to buyers as to its apparent competence, and perception of it being (at least) an equal competitor to the much ballyhoo'd VE.

Both VE and FG now use a French-sourced 5-speed auto. I guess this would be a related transmission?

I notice the non-appearance of a turbo-LPG engine variant for the 6-cyl, which is a real pity imho.


Btw iirc the old AU sported a claimed cD of .295

I agree.

[ford&holden]

This might help your knowledge Generation IV...

http://www.caradvice.com.au/

scroll down to the option listing...

[redimpss5]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Chrysler 300M wants its headlights back...

Good catch!

[ford&holden]

I guess the BA wants it's headlights back form the VE, too.

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

I still don't see YOUR proof about DI which i hear lots of Holden fans boys talking about but see no information from Holden ro any auto related website.

I watched with amusment how you and many discounted FG even before is was released, whos eating some of thier words now?
My answer to you is simply read the test drives of FG NOW and watch this sapce for direct comparisons to VE...

I haven't discounted the FG - Ford will do that!

Where's your proof an Australian-made Falcon will still be around to receive diesel power in 2010? I don't have to 'prove' anything - but I reckon it's no longhsot that Ford will shut up shop here and become 100% import before the V6 Falcon ever turns a wheel.

Do you now accept what I said when I told you - and you told me it would never happen - that the Barra six was going to die?

It's known Holden has a six-speed auto/DI motor because these are in Cadillacs today. An article on the into of the CTS to Australia noted - from GM briefing notes - that models of the Commodore would have DI by then. CTS is due in Sept-Oct. And the 4-speed Hydramatic will have to go, because it is being replaced in the US by five and six speed auto boxes.

Holden's not interested in blown sixes because they don't have to be. Their V8s are selling nicely @ 1 in 4 - and a SS sells for about the same as a XR6T but the content isn't as dear, 6.0 <$$$ than 4.0T, 6m - 6m same, 6A Hydramatic <$$$ than ZF.

I don't see $1.50 ULP prices convincing people a 1.8 tonne 4.0 with a hair dryer is a better option than a V8, when it has to use premium fuel. Even if it is a few tenths quicker to 100 - which it may turn out not to be.

Holden is like anyone else - they only do what is necessary in the market. If they are selling all the Commodores they make (they are) then they don't have to do anything - it's up to the Falcon to reel them in, not vice-versa.

So Ford has a good turbo six - fine achievement. That represents maybe one in ten sales. Not going to swing market leadership, and the N/A six doesn't beat the Omega, Berlina and Calais in numbers sold - despite the 'marvelous' motor.

I'm not privvy to Holden plans for future product. Like the decision on the Omega airbags and alloy wheels, and the HSVs now showing up at dealers with LS3s, one day we'll wake up and Holden dealers will have DI motored-cars on the lots.

[djst]

It appears the new Falcon has just gone to the top of the pack again.
I could understand there being disagreement over which vehicle is better over one journalists article,but after reading Go Auto,wheels,The Age,Drive,Carpoint, and the latest Caradvice article,and all articles suggesting the new falcon has just set new benchmarks in a number of Major areas,then im inclined to believe it.