New Ford Falcon First Drive: "Best Large Car Down Under"

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by teamkiwiracing

This is FG sales were talking about right??? Didnt the New CEO of FoA say that he beleives that the he can take the number one of Holden? Hows is he going to do that if you say they dont have the capacity to build say 4-5000+ FGs for local sales??? you cant be telling me that if there was demand for 4-5000 Falcons that ford wouldnt be able to produce them because of limited production capacity? Thats only 60,000 Falcons for the local market a year, whats the production capacity for their plant? Surely the could produce that? So i dont see any reason as to why they cant match/beat the commodore in terms of production numbers.

If you said they they couldnt sell the total (incl Exports) number FG's compared to the VE(incl exp) i would believe you but to say they cant produce

Isnt part of the reason as to why the Focus is being produced at in oz is to increase production numbers to make it for effeciant?

He is talking about upping/changing shifts to accomodate extra FG sales, that requires investment to do so which both Ford and Holden don't do unless it's absolutely required.
Fg no doubt could produce more than VE if they decide to up output, thats long way off and i don't share Osbournes thoughts in relation to FG outselling VE, you never know what could happen i guess.
Factory capacity is there if they need it.

Yes focus will take extra capacity, see focus and falcon sales differ, thats why you can't expect FG to take full capacity.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by teamkiwiracing

I was talking about the Ute!!!

Yes the FG ute uses one piece stampings as well.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by mmciau

You have no idea in the world how much GMNA takes as dividends out of Holden before profit/losses are posted.

And FG might just have a better turining circle than the VE - well you would expect that with a TAXI becuase you need to lessen 3 point turns.

Mike

Who the hell cares!? doesn't alter the result which is like what you guys say about FG, good car pitty it isn't exported or outsell VE
Besides the same situation existed before big commodore exports and VE platform was around.
Try again?

Right, so now FG has a better turning circle than VE due to taxi use?

Not a bad stretch, doesn't matter what is said, some of you will have answer and excuses as to why FG might be better than VE, how amusing.

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

Who the hell cares!? doesn't alter the result which is like what you guys say about FG, good car pitty it isn't exported or outsell VE
Besides the same situation existed before big commodore exports and VE platform was around.
Try again?

Right, so now FG has a better turning circle than VE due to taxi use?

Not a bad stretch, doesn't matter what is said, some of you will have answer and excuses as to why FG might be better than VE, how amusing.

Whether the FG is better than the current VE is yet to be shown.

I have a mechanic who believes Car of the Year should not be awarded until 5 years after release of the model. Then we (the consumer) will get a better understanding on the actual true performance and reliability of the vehicle. Then we can see if the engine will blow gaskets and/or break head studs or the vehicle is subject to a recall, etc. For many of us purchasers, the motor car is a significant financial outlay and is subject to massive depreciation as it is. I for example would like a good reliable car that holds it value because it is able to show that it is well built and will last longer than the initial test program of a few easily pleased journalists.

Too much emphasis is placed on all the glitz and glam at release.

Mike

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by Generation IV

You know this from personal experience do you? Interesting.....

Stop throwing your faith in a very brief review where the journo's didn't explain anything without saying "further inspection is required" f&h. Its possible this may turn around and bite you in the arse. Didn't you say "lets wait for a comparison"???

I love how you make out the FG to be absolutely brilliant in every possible way and how it has the VE down and out with absolutely no knowledge on the FG. Its actually quite the funny scene to watch you do this.

The technical layout of FG front suspension is more advanced than VEs, thats the truth Gen IV wheather it works better than the VEs in the real world is another matter altogether.

Bf had an edge over VZ for steering and ride while VE then jumped ahead of BF. Thus far some are saying FG jumps back ahead of VE for steering feel, ride control and comfort.

Not made up Gne IV, i leave made up info to you.

Yes lets wait and see, as i said before, you need the comformation more than i do...

It may come back and bite me in the ass, just like FG has doen thus far to you Gen IV, i've lost count at how many times you have made assumptions about how FG won't have a chance against VE and that was well before Fg was even launched!
I love the double standards around here, you have to be a crazy Holden fan to understand i guess?

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Whether the FG is better than the current VE is yet to be shown.

I have a mechanic who believes Car of the Year should not be awarded until 5 years after release of the model. Then we (the consumer) will get a better understanding on the actual true performance and reliability of the vehicle. Then we can see if the engine will blow gaskets and/or break head studs or the vehicle is subject to a recall, etc. For many of us purchasers, the motor car is a significant financial outlay and is subject to massive depreciation as it is. I for example would like a good reliable car that holds it value because it is able to show that it is well built and will last longer than the initial test program of a few easily pleased journalists.

Too much emphasis is placed on all the glitz and glam at release.

Mike

And here we go again in circles, just a different GMI member



Thus far what can't be denied is that FG has shown itself to be a very good package, there is more evidence to suggest that FG will outclass VE for a few reasons...

1. It's newer, just like VE out did BF, remember that one??? i'm sure you do.
2. We know how VE drives
3. FG has been tested in isolation and comments suggest that FG could outdo VE.
4. I have yet to read any collective comments that suggest FG is a dud and that it may not surpass VE.

See my point yet!? Most opinions centre around FG being better, not worse yet journos already know how VE drives...

It was ok for Gen IV to say VE will still better than FG!? only one GM fan turned around and actually pulled him up for not being able to back his bull**** up...

I have more evidence to work with than what you guys do to suggest FG will have a very godo chance of being class leader.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about ANY vehicles long term quality and reliability, however that simply has nothing to do with what we are discussing in this thread here and now.

[Generation IV]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

And here we go again in circles, just a different GMI member



Thus far what can't be denied is that FG has shown itself to be a very good package, there is more evidence to suggest that FG will outclass VE for a few reasons...

1. It's newer, just like VE out did BF, remember that one??? i'm sure you do.
2. We know how VE drives
3. FG has been tested in isolation and comments suggest that FG could outdo VE.
4. I have yet to read any collective comments that suggest FG is a dud and that it may not surpass VE.

See my point yet!? Most opinions centre around FG being better, not worse yet journos already know how VE drives...

It was ok for Gen IV to say VE will still better than FG!? only one GM fan turned around and actually pulled him up for not being able to back his bull**** up...

I have more evidence to work with than what you guys do to suggest FG will have a very godo chance of being class leader.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about ANY vehicles long term quality and reliability, however that simply has nothing to do with what we are discussing in this thread here and now.

There isn't enough evidence for anything you've said so far. There isn't enough evidence to support the FG having better crash safety, better handling, better dynamics, better quality, better performance overall and better reliability.

Actually, no opinions or comments have given the FG a clear advantage over the VE at all. As far as I can see, all they've said is that the FG has improved dynamics, improved 5-speed, improved turbo 6s and improved fuel consumption. I've already heard complaints about steering kickback, cheap and nasty door sounds and low-quality interior in the XT, but you fail to mention those. Am I surprised?

When the FG was in development stage, I said the VE will probably still have the edge mainly because the FG was supposed to be a model refresh not an all-new car with an all-new architecture. I said that a new architecture may be required to surpass the VE because the tired EA165 may be reaching its limits. I said the VE has a much more flexible platform and will pose a tough rival even with an update, I said the VE will most likely have an advantage in interior quality, looks and handling and still, to this day, it looks as if I'm right.

Every report we have (including the Wheels May issue, which I received today) all point to the fact that the FG is a good improvement but the VE still poses a tough threat. Yes, you can rammit on about the Barra 6 being better than the Alloytec 6 but that isn't the only component of a car. WHEELS journo's said that they couldn't say which was a better handling car out of the XR6 and the SV6 (and SS and XR8), which looks like its pretty much in the VE's favour considering they said that while driving the FG. Comfort is pretty much even with the VE as far as suspension tune goes. The Calais has a luxury-sport compromise and woe and behold, Ford comes out with a new suspension tune called "sport luxury" in the G-Series models. What we have here is a straight fight. The FG has better 6-cylinder performance...So? The VE has better V8 performance when put against the XR8 and possibly the XR6 Turbo. The quality of the interiors is hard to say but WHEELS journo's have said that there is a dark and cheap feeling in the XT's interior, granted, they said the Omega's interior is a bit grey, but the Omega is more well-packaged (read a couple posts back, you seemed to of missed one of my posts). The XR interiors are basically the XT's interiors with faux metal as the backing on the console and XR labelling on the speedo and thats about it. The SV6 and SS interiors are much nicer to look at and are definitely more sport oriented. The SSV is another step up.

Until f&h you come up with some solid evidence that the FG is safer, more up-market, and a sweeter handler, stop now. Because making your outlandish remarks with the serious lack of evidence or support you have is making you look quite the fool.

[Generation IV]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

It was ok for Gen IV to say VE will still better than FG!? only one GM fan turned around and actually pulled him up for not being able to back his bull**** up...

No. Because you are the only member foolish enough to argue with me with absolutely no idea what the FG would've been like. I said the VE will probably be better because it was an all-new platform while the FG was going to be a model refresh, a last update before its tossed aside for the Huntsman to replace it. At that time, there was more evidence to suggest the VE was going to be better. But now it looks much closer than I or anyone else for that matter originally thought.

Posts a few months back aren't exactly spot on to what is going on now f&h.

[from oz]

Well here's another thread that's gone to the crapper. Seriously this is no longer a discussion it's a one-upmanship pissing contest.

You're preaching to an empty room, while I can't speak for everyone, I certainly stop reading when all I see is posts by FordvsHolden and Generation IV.

Agree to disagree, move on, build a bridge, just stop the wasted space on my temporary internet files.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by from oz

Well here's another thread that's gone to the crapper. Seriously this is no longer a discussion it's a one-upmanship pissing contest.

You're preaching to an empty room, while I can't speak for everyone, I certainly stop reading when all I see is posts by FordvsHolden and Generation IV.

Agree to disagree, move on, build a bridge, just stop the wasted space on my temporary internet files.

Agreed.

[Generation IV]

Originally Posted by from oz

Well here's another thread that's gone to the crapper. Seriously this is no longer a discussion it's a one-upmanship pissing contest.

You're preaching to an empty room, while I can't speak for everyone, I certainly stop reading when all I see is posts by FordvsHolden and Generation IV.

Agree to disagree, move on, build a bridge, just stop the wasted space on my temporary internet files.

Fair enough.

[mikmak]

What, are you on dial up?

Originally Posted by from oz

Well here's another thread that's gone to the crapper. Seriously this is no longer a discussion it's a one-upmanship pissing contest.

You're preaching to an empty room, while I can't speak for everyone, I certainly stop reading when all I see is posts by FordvsHolden and Generation IV.

Agree to disagree, move on, build a bridge, just stop the wasted space on my temporary internet files.

It was nice to be a bystander this time and see how annoying it is.

[from oz]

Originally Posted by mikmak

What, are you on dial up?



It was nice to be a bystander this time and see how annoying it is.

No, I'm not but it's against the law to publicly shoot down a soapbox statement.

And, yes it is annoying. I appreciate a good debate at the best of times but we were going over things from good ol' Just released VE Commodore days.

Let us all chillax.

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

What a round about answer...

Holden claimed the use of thicker A pillars for crash strength, HOLDEN, no body else. FG will match and beat VE for crash strength with thinner, better designed A pillars, one of the reasons is Boron high strength steel used in the B pillars, simple.
Ford said they have a global standard in place for thickness of A pillars, not an accident.

You wouldn't have a clue what reduction Ford has had in the build process of FG, your guess is less than VE due to legacy of design/equicpment, what a load of rubbish.
AU was far cheaper to build than both EL and VT yet used the same platform as EL, didn't make a difference there.

FG ute uses one piece shell design like the FG sedan and unlike any previous falcon ute.

VE doesn't benefit in handling dynamics, NVH or crash safety through a 'slightly' stiffer shell, why not, whats the point then?

BA was stiffer than VY, i guess you would prefer a BA then?

As i've said a million times already, it's not the hardware you have at the beginning but rather what you finish with at the end and it would appear Ford does a better job with what they have available to them

Sure, whatever you say.

M: (Knock)
A: Come in.
M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?
A: I told you once.
M: No you haven't.
A: Yes I have.
M: When?
A: Just now.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't
A: I did!
M: You didn't!
A: I'm telling you I did!
M: You did not!!
A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
M: Oh, just the five minutes.
A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did.
M: You most certainly did not.
A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you.
M: No you did not.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't.
A: Did.
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument.
A: Yes it is.
M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
A: No it isn't.
M: It is!
A: It is not.
M: Look, you just contradicted me.
A: I did not.
M: Oh you did!!
A: No, no, no.
M: You did just then.
A: Nonsense!
M: Oh, this is futile!
A: No it isn't.
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

M: (Knock)
A: Come in.
M: Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?
A: I told you once.
M: No you haven't.
A: Yes I have.
M: When?
A: Just now.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't
A: I did!
M: You didn't!
A: I'm telling you I did!
M: You did not!!
A: Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
M: Oh, just the five minutes.
A: Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did.
M: You most certainly did not.
A: Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you.
M: No you did not.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't.
A: Did.
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument.
A: Yes it is.
M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
A: No it isn't.
M: It is!
A: It is not.
M: Look, you just contradicted me.
A: I did not.
M: Oh you did!!
A: No, no, no.
M: You did just then.
A: Nonsense!
M: Oh, this is futile!
A: No it isn't.
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!

If only it were that funny........