LPG Better Than Petrol, Ethanol & Biofuels, Says Former Holden Engineer

[LAMRONH]

LPG:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquified_petroleum_gas

[Gnitro]

I would like to run on LPG, it's cheaper and I could get it for even less. it is sold were I work.

[LAMRONH]

Here is my solution:

We get ADM to get into the LPG bidness.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-241.html

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13646

ADM then bribes ("lobbies") congress into passing some LPG-use laws.

LPG replaces ETOH, becomes The New Messiah/Savior/Plan A.

Problem solved. Next question?

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Here is a precis article about the factory fitted Dual fuel Holden VE.

I still have my 1996 VS Acclaim with factory fitted dual fuel. I am in no hurry to get rid of it.

Mike

http://carshowroom.autotrader.com.au...60882920080401

I should have put a smiley on my previous statement.

I have 2 things against LPG.
1. The tank in the boot - robbing space. possibly better with the new ones.
2. Driving around with a tank of gas in the boot and the possible ka-blooey effect. Every so often you get a report of one going up in a big way. Agrred it must be statistically small, but thats not much solace if you are the one....

i'm sure it is just me 'cos i'm even nervous/cautious with LPG BBQs. I had a natural gas point put onto the back of the garage when we built this new house and bought a NG Weber for it.

[kgratton]

Originally Posted by RedVee8

I should have put a smiley on my previous statement.

I have 2 things against LPG.
1. The tank in the boot - robbing space. possibly better with the new ones.
2. Driving around with a tank of gas in the boot and the possible ka-blooey effect. Every so often you get a report of one going up in a big way. Agrred it must be statistically small, but thats not much solace if you are the one....

i'm sure it is just me 'cos i'm even nervous/cautious with LPG BBQs. I had a natural gas point put onto the back of the garage when we built this new house and bought a NG Weber for it.

Fair enough comment, reference the space in the boot. The only LPG vehicle I would choose would be a single-fuel LPG system, like Falcon or Magna.

A colleague of mine from a couple of years ago said that LPG was actually pretty safe. Tests apparently proved that the LPG tanks were capable of sustaining a heavier hit than a typical petrol tank.

The XF Falcon that went up in flames around the same time - killing a couple of kids and seriously injuring the dad driving and other children - was apparently a really bad backyard job and the owner hadn't maintained it properly either.

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by RedVee8

I should have put a smiley on my previous statement.

I have 2 things against LPG.
1. The tank in the boot - robbing space. possibly better with the new ones.
2. Driving around with a tank of gas in the boot and the possible ka-blooey effect. Every so often you get a report of one going up in a big way. Agrred it must be statistically small, but thats not much solace if you are the one....

i'm sure it is just me 'cos i'm even nervous/cautious with LPG BBQs. I had a natural gas point put onto the back of the garage when we built this new house and bought a NG Weber for it.

Granted re the loss of space in the boot.

I had the ten-year inspection of the pressure vessel and the critical inspection item is the "cut off solenoid and valve" IIRC, if there is any loss of electrical current to the system, it shuts off the gas tank.

And of course, it is important to maintain the red tags on the number plates so that the firies know what they are in for if the car in burning!

I topped up this morning - $32.44 AU

Mike

[BBDOS CV8]

The LPG/petrol Commodore system's actually superior to the LPG-only Falcon. The Falcon loses over 40kw or 60hp due to primitive manifold injection, plus it slurps into the gas which reduces savings. They have major issues seemingly non-fixable if the guy at work's car is any indication. Ford dealer - 'can't fix it mate, they all do it'. The 'it' is random backfiring - enough to melt the airfilter frame, stalling at intersections or part throttle or just plain farting and rough running. Plus as it comes as a factory fit, you only get $1000 rebate from the Guv'mint.

The new sequential VE Commy system starts from cold and idles on petrol, which means you always need some petrol on board. Because it is port-injection and the ECU is tuned for it with special ignition mapping, the motor loses only a couple of Kw and is very nearly as economical as on petrol. Plus it idles and starts smoothly, areas where basic LPG systems often stumble. And as the injectors get used more often, they don't gum up and cause bad running when it is on petrol.

Plus, because Holden builds the car and it rolls off the lne without it and it is fitted by a third-party (HSV) the LPG Commy qualifies for the full $2000 rebate - very sneaky. Plus it still has a factory-fit look and full warranty.

Old man's VR LPG car is still running fine, after 350,000km without the heads even being off it. The old 3800 is near-ideal for it.

Maximum range is about 1200km, or 800 miles. Bad thing about gas is it is so dry-running it tends to hammer valves and upper cylinder/rings and bores, plus it is very slow-burning so exhaust valves cop it extra. But there's no NoX and very little hydrocarbons, and no lead or nasty carcinogenic octane boosters used in petrol. All that comes out of the tailpipe is Co2, H2o and some unburnt gas.

We're still shipping LPG off at 2 or 3c a litre to Japan and China for use in industry - we should be using far more as vehicle fuel. The new smaller multi-tanks means they can fit them to pretty much anything, and they're safer as the smaller tanks are less likely to be breached in a prang than one big one.

[asylum]

Originally Posted by thebuickguy

HAHAHA the aussies wear bow ties hahahaha

only if they've got little cartoons of cars on them

[RedVee8]

Interestingly the 2ser fm World on Wheels show talked about LPG today. Dr Terry was very positive on the Holden LPG setup, tested an Omega LPG previously and said you can't tell the difference in the driving.

[Generation IV]

Originally Posted by RedVee8

Interestingly the 2ser fm World on Wheels show talked about LPG today. Dr Terry was very positive on the Holden LPG setup, tested an Omega LPG previously and said you can't tell the difference in the driving.

Yes, the Holden Dual Fuel LPG motor has gotten alot of praise. I drove one quite recently actually and you can't tell the difference, it runs really well. The only downfalls are the boot space loss, and the slightly lower power output. Albeit a slight loss, 180kW is probably the minimal for an 1800kg car. So it'll probably work harder and because gas consumption is higher than fuel consumption it would use alot. But Holden has done alot of good work with it so the gas consumption isn't a dramatic increase from petrol consumption unlike other systems where fuel consumption will jump from 11L/100km (unleaded) to around 22-25L/100km (gas). I'm not that crash hot on the Ford system consequently.

[Dr Terry]

Hi Guys.

It's good to hear I have some listeners on the forum.

Yes, I had a loan of a GM PR car for about 4 weeks over the Christmas break. It was only a dual fuel Omega, but I can't speak highly enough of it.

Firstly it's the only LPG car I've driven where you can change from petrol to gas without the slightest blip. Also there was virtually no difference in economy between the two. I did several runs up to coast from Sydney & achieved just over 9L/100 for both. This was over 1000s of kms, with a/cond on, 4 passengers & luggage. The LPG injection system is far superior to the old vapour systems like the Falcon.

Prices (in January) were around 62c for LPG & $1.30 for petrol, so it's a very strong argument for conversion. I can't see the Australian taxi fleet converting to diesel at current prices.

The VE boot while shallow, is wide & still long, even with the gas tank fitted. With the new cantilever hinges, the boot space is still good.

I prefer dual fuel cars over dedicated LPG cars & this showed up on one of the trips. There are still plenty of country towns in NSW that don't have LPG, so you can then switch to petrol until you find some. On that topic with both tanks full, the touring range was well over 1200 km.

I think I know what fuel my next car will use.

Dr Terry.

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Hi Guys.

It's good to hear I have some listeners on the forum.

Yes, I had a loan of a GM PR car for about 4 weeks over the Christmas break. It was only a dual fuel Omega, but I can't speak highly enough of it.

Firstly it's the only LPG car I've driven where you can change from petrol to gas without the slightest blip. Also there was virtually no difference in economy between the two. I did several runs up to coast from Sydney & achieved just over 9L/100 for both. This was over 1000s of kms, with a/cond on, 4 passengers & luggage. The LPG injection system is far superior to the old vapour systems like the Falcon.

Prices (in January) were around 62c for LPG & $1.30 for petrol, so it's a very strong argument for conversion. I can't see the Australian taxi fleet converting to diesel at current prices.

The VE boot while shallow, is wide & still long, even with the gas tank fitted. With the new cantilever hinges, the boot space is still good.

I prefer dual fuel cars over dedicated LPG cars & this showed up on one of the trips. There are still plenty of country towns in NSW that don't have LPG, so you can then switch to petrol until you find some. On that topic with both tanks full, the touring range was well over 1200 km.

I think I know what fuel my next car will use.

Dr Terry.

Thanks for the report Dr Terry. I'd suggest your report on the Omega is one of the first that highlights economy and distances with the dedicated Alloytec engine which Holden have for the LPG.

Mike

[mikmak]

Anyone doing the Diesel Gas thing? D-gas I think it is called. Its a gas injection systems that aids HP and economy whilst still running on Diesel. A co worker has it and swears by it. Even though it's a 4200 layout, you still get the full LPG rebate because it runs more than 25%.

[mikmak]

Dr Terry, do you have a podcast or similar?

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Anyone doing the Diesel Gas thing? D-gas I think it is called. Its a gas injection systems that aids HP and economy whilst still running on Diesel. A co worker has it and swears by it. Even though it's a 4200 layout, you still get the full LPG rebate because it runs more than 25%.

Bloke across the road has a Toyota 80 Series 4.2 NA with LPG fitted.

He comes over the Swanport Bridge at Murray Bridge, South Australia doing 110km/hr in 5th gear. It will lose 10km/hr at the radio towers at the top of the incline - about a 2km drag.

Prior to him having it fitted, he'd be down to 4th gear and 90km/hr and it would be struggling.

Only difference is the exhaust pipe now comes up and through the rear RH wheel arch as the LPG pressure tank is where the exhaust muffler is normally located. He has now well over 450K Km on the clock

Mike