Liquid Fire: HSV LPG First Drive!!!(Video Added to first post)

[mikmak]

First drive: HSV LPG is fast and economical

David Morley, drive.com.au, June 12, 2009


It may be powered by LPG but HSV’s LPi engine is as quick as any other HSV, capable of blasting to 100km/h in a little over five seconds.

While the thought of a performance car running on LPG seems a bit odd, you need to forget everything you know about old-school LPG conversions as they applied to taxis.

The sophistication of HSV’s LPi (liquid propane injection) means that the traditional trade-offs of LPG are simply non-existent.

Drive drove a HSV Senator prototype fitted with LPi and we’d have to say that if you weren’t told the car was running on a fuel other than ULP, you’d never pick it.

Starting is as simple as any other HSV with twist of the key cranking the 6.2-litre V8 into life.

A small button on the centre console flashes for a few seconds, indicating that the computer has started the car on petrol and is evacuating any LPG from the gas lines to avoid a backfire.

Once that's complete, the computer switches the engine from petrol to LPG in a process so seamless it's impossible to pick even on the move and under load.

From there, the same button can be used to switch back to petrol manually for what ever reason.

Under hard acceleration, the computer switches the engine back to petrol but, again, you'd never pick it.

The car's acceleration times are unaltered from the standard vehicle's because the system reverts to ULP under full throttle anyway. That means this LPG-powered HSV will blast to 100km/h in a little over five seconds.

The only real compromise comes with the space consumed by the LPG tank which lives in the boot, hard up against the rear seat.

As well as rendering the split-fold seat useless, the tank also reduces the available luggage space by quite a margin.

The solution is to opt for an LPG tank which fits in the space under the boot floor normally occupied by the spare tyre. As we’ve discovered previously in a Drive test, this system can have issues with overheating, which can noticeably increase refuelling times.

In the case of the wheel-shaped gas tank, the car carries no spare tyre and the LPG capacity is reduced from 70 litres to about 55. The smaller tank would be offered by HSV as an alternative if the vehicle reaches production, which is more than likely given the engineering efforts already made on the LPG system.

The HSV LPG system would likely not be an option on the R8 Touring station-wagon because of issues of where to locate the LPG tank.

LINK

and heres the tech....

Technology of HSV’s LPG car

David Morley, drive.com.au, June 12, 2009


Modern LPG technology is set to make HSV’s gas powered car just as fun as those on petrol, but with half the running costs.


The heart of the HSV LPG system – called LPi, for liquid propane injection - is an extra eight injectors fitted to the inlet manifold near the V8’s inlet ports.

A pump inside the LPG tank pressurizes the fuel and sends it to the injectors where it enters the engine still in its liquid form.

The liquid state allows for much more accurate metering of the fuel which keeps the fuel-air mixture at its optimum level. And it’s this element of the design that allows the engine to make as much power as it does on ULP.

Old-tech systems inject or meter the LPG into the engine in a gaseous state which makes it much more difficult to mix with air in the correct ratio.

HSV is working with a partner to develop the injectors which, as yet, are themselves in their prototype stage and are not used by any other manufacturer.

Any unburned LPG is returned to the tank via a separate fuel line and this eliminates the over-rich mixture condition that creates the familiar smell of an idling taxi.

At the moment, HSV has the prototype system configured to switch back to petrol whenever the engine reaches 4800rpm or is under high load, such as when the driver floors the throttle to overtake or when towing a heavy load up a hill.

More tech at the LINK


Check out the VIDEO

[mikmak]

Perhaps one of the most important aspects of this development, is the possibility of LPG V8s in the Holdens regular line up, as well as a clear indication that Liquid injection is well on its way.

[Xenon]

What's LPG?

[caddycruiser]

Originally Posted by Xenon

What's LPG?

Liquid Propane Gasoline.

[Robert Ryan]

Liquid Propane Gasoline.

No Liquid Petroleum Gas..mixture of Propane and Butane(as noted in the article). Every service station in Australia has a bowser(fuel filler)

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Yeah in USA we put that in our barbies!

[BBDOS CV8]

LPG has been a staple of the taxi fleet for 30 years - we converted my Dad's HQ van to it in the 70's. Many private cars are chugging around on it with the telltale stickers on the number plates. It costs a couple $grand to convert and you make it back within a year.

It produces no lead, no NoX. The older systems created some extra hydrocarbon emissions because of poor mixing and integration, and used to cost some power/torque as LPG is about 110-octane and needs more ignition advance to run properly.

With advanced LPG liquified-injection as mentioned, it cleans up the remaining drawbacks of poorer cold starting, idling and full throttle.

But LPG currently costs 1/3rd the price of petrol. That means small-diesel economy from a big V8, and Australia has copious quantities of LPG. So when Aussies say 'gas' we aren't talking petrol!

[Robert Ryan]

Yeah in USA we put that in our barbies!

Actually you put propane in a BBQ

[Monaro]

Automotive LPG has not been filtered from impurities and thus us unsuitable for BBQ's. It's also made to smell bad so that leaks do not go undetected.

Holden need this in their V8's ASAP, it would make more sence than at HSV. Imagine an AFM LPG V8, at 50c a liter, that V8 commodore would make it from sydney to melbourne for $40!

[Fnomna]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

Actually you put propane in a BBQ

HSV LPG system – called LPi, for liquid propane injection

[Aych Es Vee]

Originally Posted by Monaro

Holden need this in their V8's ASAP, it would make more sence than at HSV. Imagine an AFM LPG V8, at 50c a liter, that V8 commodore would make it from sydney to melbourne for $40!

ESPECIALLY if they are producing the same power as the petrol variants!

[BBDOS CV8]

Robert's right with LPG - it is Petroleum gas because it's a byproduct of refining and a mix of propane and butane. Natural gas is usually called LNG, what some buses run on. LPG for automotive use has cabbage gas added so you can detect it in your garage and won't be overcome in a confined space or light a match if there's a strong smell of it.

It doesn't lock out oxygen from your red blood cells like carbon monoxide but is heavier than air and will displace it, so smothering you.

We should be using more LPG in Australia - the flame burning overhead at refineries is it being burnt off because there is so much of it. The Japanese and Chinese ship it to their factories in bulk carriers for a few cents a litre.

The old man's LPG Commodore costs $18 to fill, compared to $70 for my Monaro on petrol for 50-60 litres.

LPG also has little sulfur, no particulates like diesel so requires no special exhaust arrangements, doesn't contaminate catalytic converters and even the hydrocarbons expelled are not complex and biodegrade. It's only problem is explosiveness, but only when mixed with oxygen. It's not toxic, not corrosive and has no additives to boost octane like ethers, methyls, lead and even it's calorific content is higher than both diesel and petrol although gaseous volume is lower so you use a little more. They've even converted diesels to run on it.

There have been very few incidents of vehicle fires - less than with petrol vehicles burning. I think it's estimated 20% of Australia's national vehicle fleet runs on it, when you include taxis, some buses and high percentage of commercial vehicles.

[Monaro]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

LPG also has little sulfur, no particulates like diesel so requires no special exhaust arrangements, doesn't contaminate catalytic converters and even the hydrocarbons expelled are not complex and biodegrade. It's only problem is explosiveness, but only when mixed with oxygen. It's not toxic, not corrosive and has no additives to boost octane like ethers, methyls, lead and even it's calorific content is higher than both diesel and petrol although gaseous volume is lower so you use a little more. They've even converted diesels to run on it.

There have been very few incidents of vehicle fires - less than with petrol vehicles burning. I think it's estimated 20% of Australia's national vehicle fleet runs on it, when you include taxis, some buses and high percentage of commercial vehicles.

It should be noted that some engines don't respond to LPG well. This is usually a result of incorrect metering of older systems. LPG burns hotter and any slight lean condition esp. up on higher revs can burn valves, oxy sensors and cats. I and many others have had this happen on a 4.8 nissan patrol (the older 4.5L engine, although much weaker had no logegevity issues with lpg.

Also one by product of LPG exhaust is water so a non stainless exhaust wont last as long.

However liquid injection seems to have solved all these issues, even cooling the cylinder chamber due to gas expansion.

[calgaryhhr]

LPG would be an interesting prospect for North America but would take quite a while to implement. It is popular in Europe and one of my uncles has a conversion in the trunk of his vehicle (it does take up a good chunk of his trunk though.)

Someone on the Chevy HHR forum from Germany was mentioning that he purchased an HHR and had the option of having an LPG system. It would be interesting to see if GM could test a LPG system in North America to see what the public reaction would be.

[jorgesalazar521@msn.com]

not in austin tx----its only 30-50 cents cheaper then gas.
price follows gas around here, and theres the gov. fees permits ect....
i rip it out of my old pick -up
high maintance and high ser. fees specialty shops!!!