"Hybrids Aren't Necessarily The Way Forward" Says Holden

[JoeT]

Hybrid Or Alternative Fuels?

Ken Gratton
24 June 2007
www.carpoint.com.au

What's good for GM might also be good for the environment...and your hip pocket.

There was a time when diesels were for trucks or serious off-roaders. With the immediate sales success of Holden's Captiva Diesel, even the not so hard-core diesel SUVs are beginning to find a market in Australia.

Have we finally overcome our morbid fear of compression ignition technology?

Well, judging by the inroads small cars with turbodiesel engines have made, fuel saving is very much on the agenda for Australian new car buyers -- and if that means diesels, they'll do.

The situation appears different in America, where petrol prices have long been lower than in other developed markets. The resistance to diesels seems to be greater in the home of the free -- or at least the home of the very cheap.

That's why American GM brand Saturn is planning to market two hybrid-drive models of the company's Vue, Saturn's version of the Captiva, but no diesel version!

Respected industry publication, Automotive News, reported that the Vue will go on sale with hybrid drive technology next year. Tellingly, the hybrid Vue with automatic transmission is claimed by a GM Powertrain spokesman in the article to improve fuel economy by up to 45 per cent, when compared with the non-hybrid Vue – fitted with the same size engine as the hybrid's.

Saturn is by no means a pioneer in the field. Every volume-selling manufacturer in America has at least one hybrid-drive vehicle in production or due to roll out shortly. In Australia, we have two Lexus models, one Toyota and one Honda.

What's the difference? It's one thing to suggest that Americans look down on diesel technology, but why is the take-up of hybrid-drive technology so conversely slow in Australia?

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[goblue]

I'm convinced the solution lies in the following technologies.

Fuels:
Biodiesel and Cellulose based ethanol
- Ethanol when turbocharged offers better mileage than gas
- No need for an expensive distribution system
- Liquid fuels are best for transportation, gas fuels (H2) are difficult and expensive to package
- Cellulose is a waste product, costs at $3.00 a gallon and falling fast.

Engines:
- DI + Turbos offers the benefits of increased mileage, minimal lag, and further mileage boost with E85

Hybrids:
- Serial hybrids - small / midsize cars first, then larger vehicles as batteries grow. Key advantage - less gas used, diverted to other areas where no alternative exists (plastics)
- Parallel hybrids - best for large vehicles, towing.

Diesel: Best for extreme / frequent towing
- Expensive, same price as 2 mode hybrid - only advantage towing

Example: GMT-1000 SUV

LS5 5.3L V8 mild turbo featuring DI, VVT, DoD, and E85 capability.
- Turbo offers enhanced power and mileage on E85
- Retains V8 architecture offering good NVH in 4 cylinder mode compared to V6s
- Class leading power and emissions offering 425-500hp depnding on fuel and application

[1931Chevy]

I have been saying it for a long time Biodiesel is the way to go, GM diesel engines are not dead they are here to stay

[GMusa]

Hydrogen will be the answer!

[agman25]

Originally Posted by goblue

I'm convinced the solution lies in the following technologies.

Fuels:
Biodiesel and Cellulose based ethanol
- Ethanol when turbocharged offers better mileage than gas
- No need for an expensive distribution system
- Liquid fuels are best for transportation, gas fuels (H2) are difficult and expensive to package
- Cellulose is a waste product, costs at $3.00 a gallon and falling fast.

Cellulastic ethanol will need a new distribution system. Ethanol absorbs water and hence cannot be transported through the existing gas distribution pipelines. These pipes always have water in them and will also get corroded by Ethanol.

[Media!]

Originally Posted by GMusa

Hydrogen will be the answer!

In about 30-40 years.

[racy]

Originally Posted by goblue

I'm convinced the solution lies in the following technologies.

Fuels:
Biodiesel and Cellulose based ethanol
- Ethanol when turbocharged offers better mileage than gas
- No need for an expensive distribution system
- Liquid fuels are best for transportation, gas fuels (H2) are difficult and expensive to package
- Cellulose is a waste product, costs at $3.00 a gallon and falling fast.

Engines:
- DI + Turbos offers the benefits of increased mileage, minimal lag, and further mileage boost with E85

Hybrids:
- Serial hybrids - small / midsize cars first, then larger vehicles as batteries grow. Key advantage - less gas used, diverted to other areas where no alternative exists (plastics)
- Parallel hybrids - best for large vehicles, towing.

Diesel: Best for extreme / frequent towing
- Expensive, same price as 2 mode hybrid - only advantage towing

Example: GMT-1000 SUV

LS5 5.3L V8 mild turbo featuring DI, VVT, DoD, and E85 capability.
- Turbo offers enhanced power and mileage on E85
- Retains V8 architecture offering good NVH in 4 cylinder mode compared to V6s
- Class leading power and emissions offering 425-500hp depnding on fuel and application

Long term or short term? Long term, meaning 15+ years, I believe at least half of all vehicles sold in the U.S. will be electically driven - either via fuel cell or plugin inline hybrid, such as the Volt. I believe we're in the midst of an energy revolution. There is swelling momentum not only here but world wide, to change because things as they are, are simply unacceptable.

I really like your GMT1000 scenario. I also really like the idea of turbo e85 engines such as Saab's concept V6. I just wish they'd offer them as an option rather than a concept. Saab's V6 ethanol turbo got little fanfare, which surprised me.

[mbukukanyau]

Any of these that is not market driven will fail

[dallennium]

The bigger battle is the way the technology is conveyed to the public. Toyota's success with the Hybrid is, (in part) due to the Media's praise of the technology and building a mind set that the Hybrid is far better than it really is. The point is that it's not good enough to just bring new technology to market, GM must also build a euphoria that its technology exceeds any other company out there. That is a task that GM is particularly weak at. Lately GM has put out some great products but they don't build advertizing to personify the Brand, therefor whatever positive message that is built on a particular product is lost after launch. GM has a monumental task to nurture each Brand so that the public image is not GM, but Cadillac, Saturn, Pontiac etc. I just hope that GM in its mission to produce world class quality that they also realize they have to build world class brands, and a good start would be to take the GM logo off of the car. Most people I speek to don't want to identify necessarily with the BIG GM they want to identify with the BRAND.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by racy

Long term or short term? Long term, meaning 15+ years, I believe at least half of all vehicles sold in the U.S. will be electically driven - either via fuel cell or plugin inline hybrid, such as the Volt. I believe we're in the midst of an energy revolution. There is swelling momentum not only here but world wide, to change because things as they are, are simply unacceptable.

I really like your GMT1000 scenario. I also really like the idea of turbo e85 engines such as Saab's concept V6. I just wish they'd offer them as an option rather than a concept. Saab's V6 ethanol turbo got little fanfare, which surprised me.

Short term - I agree, 2 decades from now, all non commercial vehicles will be electric drive. Most won't need a range extending motor - it will be an option or standard on vehicles that do serious towing.

[asim]

I think that the answer is a combination of different powertrains to suit the needs, wants, and likes of many different people. I just don't know if it is efficient as a business to offer a hybrid and a diesel for the same vehicle...people will lean one way or the other.

[PA Dweller]

I think its smart for GM to keep its mind open to all alternatives. Diesel, Biofuels, Hybrids, Hydrogen, etc.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by asim

I think that the answer is a combination of different powertrains to suit the needs, wants, and likes of many different people. I just don't know if it is efficient as a business to offer a hybrid and a diesel for the same vehicle...people will lean one way or the other.

5 years ago it would have been a great idea - but with all the new emissions equipment - it adds something like 3-5K to the diesel, making the 2 mode cheaper. Also, I doubt they are synergystic. For people who tow all the time, diesel makes sense. For the rest, GM needs a 2 mode hybrid that can tow up to 10K with excellent torque.

[Dgrocho]

This is great news! The more development that goes on (no matter where in the world) the better it is for the future. So Holden, who has/is already providing NA with great technology is going to be focusing on development of another technology. So, as soon as somebody else has success with small diesels in NA, GM can bring them here within a year or two (not the best case, but there are far worse). Then, in NA, GM can focus on Hybrid and E-flex. Eventually, in the not so far future, NA is going to have such variety in powertrain options that you will be able to chose between Hydrogen E-flex, Diesel E-flex, full Diesel, Ethanol, High Efficiency Gas, Biodiesels, etc. The only real problem is that our Government has seen fit to target the least efficient of the new technologies.