HSV Maloo R8 Wins 2009 Global Green Challenge, Holden Sportwagon 3.0 Best Aussie Six!

[SCCA1995]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

I posted the image below. Stunned silence for a while. One poster said "wowee". Then they decided to delete the image. Not PC enough I would think.

Well, you've shown 2 things. 1) The car/truck design holds merit for those that say that they can't work. Maybe not as good as a half-ton truck, but there is evolutionary engineering in the Aussie Utes. 2) You've shown that "truck guys" are so backwards thinking that they will be happy getting wimpy engines or paying higher prices at the gas pumps.

[scout62]

**** you GM, where's my Ute?

[nota]

Originally Posted by SCCA1995

The car/truck design holds merit for those that say that they can't work. Maybe not as good as a half-ton truck,

Or maybe works twice as good, as the pictured RTV is a one-tonner

[EGG]

That result is pretty funny for the Maloo. I suspect though that the rules might change between this year and next however, a 6.2L V8 shaving country miles off it's "enthusiastic driving" rating isn't the outcome I imagine they'd have been looking for.

[jet smooth]

Tidy work Holden/HSV.

Holden nearly had the ute ready for NA production, so wouldn't be hard to turn on if demand was there. And it wouldn't take too much demand (relatively - something like 5-10k/pa), to get a business case sorted. Hopefully the Aussie dollar goes back down within the next year. The biggest issue (as previously debated here) is badge... I'm a bit split between Chev and GMC. GMC because it's truck, but load capacity restricts its usefullness. Chevy because it would work with any variants of Zeta (assuming the police car or a variant of it goes retail).
Australian Zeta's appear suited as a niche players in the USA. The guys down in Aus seem to still be able to make a quid out of very small numbers (compared to USA), so why not let them? The capacity of Elizabelth means they would never threaten any plants in the USA, but the consumers would get awesome vehicles....Chevelle or Caprice SS anyone?

[SCCA1995]

Originally Posted by nota

Or maybe works twice as good, as the pictured RTV is a one-tonner

Perhaps that is one thing that people in the US are concerned about. Some of us can't drive, so they would "require" true part-time 4wd. Didn't the Holden Crewman Cross6/8 have true part-time 4wd?

Originally Posted by jet smooth

Tidy work Holden/HSV.

Holden nearly had the ute ready for NA production, so wouldn't be hard to turn on if demand was there. And it wouldn't take too much demand (relatively - something like 5-10k/pa), to get a business case sorted. Hopefully the Aussie dollar goes back down within the next year. The biggest issue (as previously debated here) is badge... I'm a bit split between Chev and GMC. GMC because it's truck, but load capacity restricts its usefullness. Chevy because it would work with any variants of Zeta (assuming the police car or a variant of it goes retail).

In all honesty, I think Holden was completely ready to produce Utes for NA. The only known changes from Holden Ute to Pontiac G8 ST was minor trim/logo pieces. The basic structure was the same as the Ute. The Pontiac styled nose piece was already being produced. It was a case of GM not wanting to support the brand. But, if GM wanted to bring the Ute over in a low volume capacity, that is still a viable plan. Since the older Chevy El Camino was more popular than it's GMC equivalent, it would be instantly recognizable. But, GMC's "Professional Grade" advertising seems to allude to tough work trucks. The Terrain, Acadia, & upcoming xB competitor are not tough work trucks in any regard. While the advertising might change, the premise of the Ute as a GMC would fall in line with this new trend of vehicles that are not dedicated work vehicles. Again, we do have to bear in mind that the Ute is a work truck in Australia. This aspect can easily be played up & fit into the "Professional Grade" type of advertising. I read a quote in an article where some Chevy truck representative said that there is no room in their lineup for the Ute/El Camino. There seems to be room in the car side of Chevy. But, GMC is adding new models to it's lineup, so I don't see a reason why the Ute couldn't join in.

[nota]

Originally Posted by SCCA1995

Perhaps that is one thing that people in the US are concerned about. Some of us can't drive, so they would "require" true part-time 4wd. Didn't the Holden Crewman Cross6/8 have true part-time 4wd?

Holden's 'Cross Trac' system was full-time AWD with 38/62 split, it was used in Cross6/8 and Adventra wagon plus the Coupe4 (HSV Monaro).

For you this pic of Cross6 one-tonner competing in a local tarmac rally

[Robert Ryan]

Again, we do have to bear in mind that the Ute is a work truck in Australia. This aspect can easily be played up & fit into the "Professional Grade" type of advertising. I read a quote in an article where some Chevy truck representative said that there is no room in their lineup for the Ute/El Camino. There seems to be room in the car side of Chevy. But, GMC is adding new models to it's lineup, so I don't see a reason why the Ute couldn't join in.

A lot of the problems are going to be part of the definition..like what is it in the US? What niche does it fit?. I have on many occaisions talked about the definition of "truck" in the US and here much to the annoyance of people from the US/Canada as what works there does not necessarily work very well here.
The same problems are going to arise in the US for the Ute:Can it be treated as a sports sedan? ; sports sedan with utility;it does not tow; does not fit into the normal pickup definition; not macho enough..etc.

[mmciau]

It would be nice if Holden also released the consumption figures for the Challenge support vehicle, a Holden Cruze Diesel.

Last I read about it, it was carrying a fair load of luggage and other personal effects for the Challenge Crews that were driving the Sportwagon.

But it would be nice to know what it consumed in the support role - surely it has to be impressive figures over those current ADR Figures


Mike

[Monaro Mad]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

A lot of the problems are going to be part of the definition..like what is it in the US? What niche does it fit?. I have on many occaisions talked about the definition of "truck" in the US and here much to the annoyance of people from the US/Canada as what works there does not necessarily work very well here.
The same problems are going to arise in the US for the Ute:Can it be treated as a sports sedan? ; sports sedan with utility;it does not tow; does not fit into the normal pickup definition; not macho enough..etc.

What do you mean doesn't tow/not macho enough? These utes are more than capable of towing large loads. Maybe not to the extent of your large F350 or a Dodge Ram, but its horses for courses.......

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by Monaro Mad

What do you mean doesn't tow/not macho enough? These utes are more than capable of towing large loads. Maybe not to the extent of your large F350 or a Dodge Ram, but its horses for courses.......

There's two problems with America and Utes:

1 - the Big Three and the major Japanese makers have all exploited the market for big, fully-loaded 5,000lb+ trucks and built large marketing regimes around them and they are highly profitable. The largest selling vehicle on the planet is the F150 - bar none.The average American urban-dweller has no more need of a 5-6,000lb pickup than the average Australian. But they believe they do. They and even the smaller midsize units do come in 4-5 seaters which traditional Aussie Utes do not.

2 - they do, as a large, heavy vehicle, ride well due to weight - even when loaded - and their large weight means they can practically tow large weights. The LSx-range of smallblocks is engineered with truck duty-cycles in mind, not really cars.

In Australia, Ford have 1-tonners which are really their work ute plus the XR-based sports utes - Holden have moved the Ute away from a 'work' ute because it can't compete on price with Thai-made HiLuxes and similar to be a personal two-door sport car. Their estimation of Omega sales is 'a trickle'. The Maloo is the largest-selling HSV model, and something like 70% of Holden-badged Utes are SS or SS-Vs - all V8s. And even though many would be business registration, that's really lifestyle choice.

I think Americans would take to car-based utilities for the same reasons Aussies do - hauling dirtbikes, tools for tradies and jetskis etc on weekends. But it would be reversing a decades-long trend of selling more trucklike vehicles and really needs AWD/Crew versions as an option.

I think it is shortsighed of GM not to make the Zeta Denali. With V6 and V8 options it could have steadily built into a strong seller for them, as CAFE focussed more and more on all vehicles like it is now on cars.

[SCCA1995]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

The same problems are going to arise in the US for the Ute:Can it be treated as a sports sedan? ; sports sedan with utility;it does not tow; does not fit into the normal pickup definition; not macho enough..etc.

One word: crossover. Marketing people are making new niches in the market because their new product doesn't fit into any previous definition. Obviously, the Ute can't be seen as a sport sedan. But, the Ute drives & rides like a car (CUVs have car based chassis) while having great work credentials (like true trucks). The Ute is just another crossover, but not a family hauling CUV. Macho is only defined by the person looking at the truck/car.

BBDOS, you've got a good grasp of typical American sales thinking. While I would prefer a crew cab style truck, it is not mandatory for me. Being a bachelor has it's advantages sometimes. The Ute would satisfy the light amount of work that I would want a truck for, while having sports sedan handling that I enjoy when I'm not working. I honestly don't believe that 5-10K Utes sent to NA would bankrupt GM. How many Utes are sent to South Africa as Lumina Utes?

[nota]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

The largest selling vehicle on the planet is the F150 - bar none.

For trivia: American sales of the entire Ford F-Series ve-hic-ular range in 2008 amounted to 515,513.

Meanwhile the ubiquitous Honda Cub vehicle sold 506,142 just in April 2008 (worldwide) with yearly* sales of 4,725,028.

*April 2007 to March 2008.

(source)

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by nota

For trivia: American sales of the entire Ford F-Series ve-hic-ular range in 2008 amounted to 515,513.

Meanwhile the ubiquitous Honda Cub vehicle sold 506,142 just in April 2008 (worldwide) with yearly* sales of 4,725,028.

*April 2007 to March 2008.

(source)

This is very true if you expand the definition to two wheels. However, I believe the average American is a lot less likely to buy one of these than a Ute!



I met a guy on the Nullabor in about 1997 driving to Melbourne. He had a Honda CT90 (postie bike) leaning against the bowser at one of the small servos near Eucla. It had an orange school-seat for a seatback, and home-made hession-sack panniers.

His average speed: 70km/h. He had to be 70 not out, with ancient leathers and an ancient full-face Ajay-pattern Arai Helmet. He was complaining bitterly about paying $20 for a new countershaft sprocket which dropped rpm with taller gearing, but cost him 5mpg - from 95, down to 90 from his previous trip!

He was going over to see his big (85 year old) brother in Preston, a Northern Suburb of Melbourne from Perth - just a little 2500 mile jaunt. This was his fourth trip across on the little 90!


From the looks of his swag he was sleeping under the stars - and by the smell, in his clothes! I'm sure some of the decomposing bugs down his front were from previous trips!

[Tex]

Originally Posted by SCCA1995

This kind of truck/car will help CAFE averages in the US. Hello!! GM!! Anyone home in the Ren Center?

Not when the EPA somehow can't reproduce those number that every normal citizen can... See the post above about my father's Corvette. He doesn't drive around trying to see how much mileage he can get out of the thing, just drives it normally and gets on it occasionally, and gets 23 MPG in the suburbs.