Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan - Page 2

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Thread: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

  1. #16
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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by from_oz View Post
    Here's my beef with the new 'Astra' sedan.

    Holden have been actively working the Chevrolet design language with their small cars. Spark, Barina and Trax are all working the large lower intake (as is the Commodore sports, Captiva and Colorado). The Astra hatch didn't have that option so they went the OPC line body kit.

    But here, Holden have been given the option to give the sedan a bespoke look and they've chosen a bumper that is a blend of the standard Opel Astra and the new Commodore.

    I genuinely don't know what Holden is trying to achieve with their corporate look anymore.



    I have a similar issue.

    I don't understand why the hell you wouldn't just get the Cruze hatch if there's no Astra sedan. It's not like the Cruze hatch will be terribly popular and doesn't need a little bit of extra juice from and potential Holden sales.

    I mean, at this point, you have no less than THREE different brand looks mashed into one lineup.

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    GMI Australia Correspondent Premium Member mikmak's Avatar
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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    I just wish they would sit back and look at it, external to the requirements of the global constraints of the organisation, to see how it looks to everyone else.

    It's a shamozzle. I feel bad for the folks at GM Holden and GMIO trying to herd the cats right now. If this is what we can see, the reality must be like trying to eat only the strawberry in a bowl of melted neapolitan.
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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    It really is the same car, same platform, same powertrains, Holden gets to tune its suspension for Ausies

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by mikmak View Post
    I just wish they would sit back and look at it, external to the requirements of the global constraints of the organisation, to see how it looks to everyone else.

    It's a shamozzle. I feel bad for the folks at GM Holden and GMIO trying to herd the cats right now. If this is what we can see, the reality must be like trying to eat only the strawberry in a bowl of melted neapolitan.
    Think about it, the best way to make sense for Holden is to produce the car in Korea, not Germany, this is a cheap car with not great margins, in Astra or Cruze form, and believe you me Astra is not that much better than Cruze..
    If you get North American features, Its probably superior to a European Astra.

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Holden have never cared about any other product except the "standard" size models, and this cynical mish-mash is nothing more than a continuation of the past half-century of Holden small car mismanagement. Holden have to be THE most inept company selling cars in Oz. Those sunburnt ockers couldn't manage a chook raffle...

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by mbukukanyau View Post
    Think about it, the best way to make sense for Holden is to produce the car in Korea, not Germany, this is a cheap car with not great margins, in Astra or Cruze form, and believe you me Astra is not that much better than Cruze..
    If you get North American features, Its probably superior to a European Astra.
    You're kidding right?
    Do those "extra features" include a sunglass holder?

    I heard it's one of those items they left off the American Cruze
    Who the hell approved this abomination? Hidden Content

    I bet it was some dumbarse in Detroit Hidden Content

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rexx View Post
    Holden have never cared about any other product except the "standard" size models, and this cynical mish-mash is nothing more than a continuation of the past half-century of Holden small car mismanagement. Holden have to be THE most inept company selling cars in Oz. Those sunburnt ockers couldn't manage a chook raffle...
    This has basically happened over the last 10 years

    Mooney killed Holden before Mary drove the final knife in

    But you're right about their small and median cars they just havent had anything decent for a long time

    LIttle bursts of decency here and there but by and large they have had rubbish to choose from

    Mainly because GM has had rubbish to give them
    Who the hell approved this abomination? Hidden Content

    I bet it was some dumbarse in Detroit Hidden Content

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rexx View Post
    Holden have never cared about any other product except the "standard" size models, and this cynical mish-mash is nothing more than a continuation of the past half-century of Holden small car mismanagement. Holden have to be THE most inept company selling cars in Oz. Those sunburnt ockers couldn't manage a chook raffle...
    The single high water mark was the TS Astra which ruled for years, in sedan, coupe and hatch (there was a convetible but it had issues), with 1.8, 2.2 and a 2 litre turbo engine. The AH never seemed to pick up despite a strong start. Using the same 1.8 that was peppy in the TS, was underwhelming in the AH, and the beginning of the end when replaced by the Viva (ironically with equally disparate design cues between teh sedan and hatch). There entered the shamozzle.




    I was told (by an internal chassis eng) that these were actually fantastic on the dirt.

    On second thought these two are pretty much identical.... if you only look at the wheels.
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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    I can see why Holden have done this. The Astra nameplate is strong in Australia. I am in Australia now, and there are still large numbers of TS Astras (i.e. Astra G) still zipping about on Australian roads, in both hatchback and saloon body styles.

    By having the same name, it simplifies marketing. It helps that they are the same vehicle underneath.

    Disparate styling between body styles and interiors is done at Honda (Civic) and Toyota (Corolla) and nobody raises a fuss, nor does the market seem confused by it.

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    Yes but my beef comes from the fact that they were supposed to be trying to head up market with the Astra with the Cruze allowing them to feed the bottom end without affecting the Astra name.

    Corolla stay at the bottom (pricewise) and the punters understand that. Likewise, Honda charge a premium and the market understands that.

    If the Astra sedan arrives with bare bones or appears to be Korean, the market is likely to point at it and say it's just another Korean Holden.

    That's something Holden don't need right now.

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Astra & Cruze are a conundrum when put together in the same market, as Chevrolet and Opel/Vauxhall found in Europe. The omission of an Astra saloon/sedan is a no-brainer for Opel/Vauxhall as the % of hatchback-saloon/sedan has been dwindling in Europe since the T-platform cars in the late '70s.

    If Holden were masters of marketing they could make this work - but of recent Holden are anything but.

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by mikmak View Post
    It's a shamozzle. I feel bad for the folks at GM Holden and GMIO trying to herd the cats right now.
    Holden are quickly transforming into a National Sales Organisation, a fancy term for a regional sales office. Holden don't have much input into their portfolio these days, usually they find out about their future products through a powerpoint presentation from GMI.

    I don't think anyone should be surprised by lack of a common design theme, it's like trying to sell a mix of VWs, Audis and Skodas under the Seat brand.

    Anyway, having looked at Holden's historical sales number all I can say is: OMG! From a peak in 2002 when Holden sold almost 180K vehicles (total market 900K), down to 94K in 2016 (total Oz market 1,178,133). So in 14 years Australian total market up 50%, while Holden sales down 50%.
    Last edited by GolfBravo; 01-11-2017 at 06:32 PM.

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by GolfBravo View Post
    Holden are quickly transforming into a National Sales Organisation, a fancy term for a regional sales office. Holden don't have much input into their portfolio these days, usually they find out about their future products through a powerpoint presentation from GMI.

    I don't think anyone should be surprised by lack of a common design theme, it's like trying to sell a mix of VWs, Audis and Skodas under the Seat brand.

    Anyway, having looked at Holden's historical sales number all I can say is: OMG! From a peak in 2002 when Holden sold almost 180K vehicles (total market 900K), down to 94K in 2016 (total Oz market 1,178,133). So in 14 years Australian total market up 50%, while Holden sales down 50%.
    Do that again and xref against tariff reduction.
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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by GolfBravo View Post
    Holden are quickly transforming into a National Sales Organisation, a fancy term for a regional sales office. Holden don't have much input into their portfolio these days, usually they find out about their future products through a powerpoint presentation from GMI.

    I don't think anyone should be surprised by lack of a common design theme, it's like trying to sell a mix of VWs, Audis and Skodas under the Seat brand.

    Anyway, having looked at Holden's historical sales number all I can say is: OMG! From a peak in 2002 when Holden sold almost 180K vehicles (total market 900K), down to 94K in 2016 (total Oz market 1,178,133). So in 14 years Australian total market up 50%, while Holden sales down 50%.
    Quote Originally Posted by mikmak View Post
    Do that again and xref against tariff reduction.
    Yeah, I don't think there was a chance that Holden could maintain that sort of market share. Times have moved on significantly - more competition, the existing competition upped their game etc.

    But without a doubt there was some real epic eff-ups by Holden management and GM can't be forgotten either. The whole SUV trend seemed to have caught them napping.

    In terms of the design theme, I don't know why it's a problem. Except for the Barina, there is a Opel bodied variant of every single one of Holden's passenger cars and the Trax as well. So they could quite easily have a significant portion of their passenger range with a single styling theme. But they've weirdly gone a 50/40/10 thing.

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    Re: Holden Readies Astra Lineup for Astra Sedan

    Quote Originally Posted by mikmak View Post
    Yes but my beef comes from the fact that they were supposed to be trying to head up market with the Astra with the Cruze allowing them to feed the bottom end without affecting the Astra name.

    Corolla stay at the bottom (pricewise) and the punters understand that. Likewise, Honda charge a premium and the market understands that.

    If the Astra sedan arrives with bare bones or appears to be Korean, the market is likely to point at it and say it's just another Korean Holden.

    That's something Holden don't need right now.
    I don't think that will be the case but... and your original post nailed it with the current mix of opposition models being very little different to the mish mash Holden will end up with. The sedan and hatch markets are very different to each other, and I can actually see the sedan being "loaded" to appeal to that market segment... especially given its lower cost base to start with.

    Holdens real stumble is trying to figure out how to be an importer. In it's rush to show how international it is, it's confusing everyone by trying connect back to Europe because it somehow thinks that helps. It's a messy ****fest that creates tenuous links for little reason.

    Personally I'd go with "fully imported" for everything bar Commodore. That's the model that will need Euro cache. It's the flagship and it'll count.

    As for the rest of the range they just need to stop over compensating.
    Last edited by Holdlion; 01-12-2017 at 05:31 AM.

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