Holden Goes It Alone On E85, With Big Oil Uninterested

[JoeT]

Holden Goes It Alone On E85

David Hassall
29 July 2008
www.goauto.com.au

No support from Big Oil for Holden’s E85 plan, as fuel retailers stall on ethanol.

Australia's major petrol retailers have no plans to offer E85 fuel in the foreseeable future, despite GM Holden’s recent declaration that it will produce an ethanol-compatible Commodore as soon as 2010.

BP, Mobil and Shell this week told GoAuto that they have no plans to offer E85 – a blend of 85 per cent ethanol and 15 per cent petrol – at any of their service stations in Australia.

Their resources appear to be totally dedicated to the expensive roll-out of E10 nationally, starting with New South Wales (where it is legislated) and Queensland (where most of the ethanol is produced).

Supply of sufficient ethanol is also a source of concern because producers are already running at capacity to meet the growing demand for E10.

And there are long-term concerns for the growth in ethanol demand because, while the current relatively low level means that it can be produced from agricultural by-products, an increase in demand could force producers to use food crops.

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Confirmed: Holden To Build E85 Bio-Fuel Commodore

[redimpss5]

Since E85 is the worst thing ever, I am glad to see this posted!!

[redTT]

Go Holden and go ethanol, ethanol production will dramatically increase when companies start taking up the second gen ethanol production. Whatever fuel America uses the rest of the world tends to follow, in this case ethanol has been huge.

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by redimpss5

Since E85 is the worst thing ever, I am glad to see this posted!!

Perhaps you may wish to enlighten us why 'E85 is the worst thing ever'.

In South Australia, a leading Tuner has undertaken tuning studies (and outcomes) on E85 and has very promising outcomes.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=99917



In South Australia, the SAFF has several outlets that sell E85

www.farmersfuel.com.au

http://www.farmersfuel.com.au/Downloads/Bioethanol.pdf

Mike

[mikmak]

I have to admit surprise at such calculated and accurate assessment of the benefits of ethanol. I can't criticise Holden for giving it a go though (leading the way even) as the CSIRO has a history of creative solutions to alternative power source problems. Whilst big oil has said no at this stage, I think this is far from over.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by mmciau

Perhaps you may wish to enlighten us why 'E85 is the worst thing ever'.

In South Australia, a leading Tuner has undertaken tuning studies (and outcomes) on E85 and has very promising outcomes.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=99917



In South Australia, the SAFF has several outlets that sell E85

www.farmersfuel.com.au

http://www.farmersfuel.com.au/Downloads/Bioethanol.pdf

Mike

I think the main problems redimp is getting at refer to the use of land that would normally grow food for the masses, being resumed for the growth of ethanol. I would like to hear about the second generation ethanol though.

[nikivee]

Originally Posted by mikmak

I think the main problems redimp is getting at refer to the use of land that would normally grow food for the masses, being resumed for the growth of ethanol. I would like to hear about the second generation ethanol though.

Myth #1: It’s Food Versus Fuel—We Should Be Growing Crops for Starving Masses, Not Cars!

Because the U.S. grows a lot of it, corn has become the primary crop used in making *ethanol here. This is supposedly *controversial, since corn is identified as a staple food in poverty-stricken parts of the world. But 87% of the U.S. corn crop is fed to animals. In most years, the U.S. sends close to 20% of its corn to other countries. While it is assumed that these exports could feed most of the hungry in the world, the corn is actually sold to wealthy nations to fatten their livestock. Plus, virtually no impoverished nation will accept our corn, even when it is offered as charity, due to its being genetically modified and therefore unfit for human consumption.

Also, fermenting the corn to alcohol results in more meat than if you fed the corn directly to the cattle. We can actually increase the meat supply by first processing corn into alcohol, which only takes 28% of the starch, leaving all the protein and fat, creating a higher-quality animal feed than the original corn.

[Rick_VT]

Well i hope Holden decide to bring out direct injection and DOD and 6sp autos in their cars before they bring out a E85 engine, no point spending money on a technology that isnt goin to be supoorted by major Petrol companies

[377Z]

Originally Posted by nikivee

Myth #1: It’s Food Versus Fuel—We Should Be Growing Crops for Starving Masses, Not Cars!

Because the U.S. grows a lot of it, corn has become the primary crop used in making *ethanol here. This is supposedly *controversial, since corn is identified as a staple food in poverty-stricken parts of the world. But 87% of the U.S. corn crop is fed to animals. In most years, the U.S. sends close to 20% of its corn to other countries. While it is assumed that these exports could feed most of the hungry in the world, the corn is actually sold to wealthy nations to fatten their livestock. Plus, virtually no impoverished nation will accept our corn, even when it is offered as charity, due to its being genetically modified and therefore unfit for human consumption.

Also, fermenting the corn to alcohol results in more meat than if you fed the corn directly to the cattle. We can actually increase the meat supply by first processing corn into alcohol, which only takes 28% of the starch, leaving all the protein and fat, creating a higher-quality animal feed than the original corn.

Please stop spreading facts, or people are bound to learn something.

[redTT]

Originally Posted by mikmak

I have to admit surprise at such calculated and accurate assessment of the benefits of ethanol. I can't criticise Holden for giving it a go though (leading the way even) as the CSIRO has a history of creative solutions to alternative power source problems. Whilst big oil has said no at this stage, I think this is far from over.

Holden should forget about the major oil companies, Holden should start siding with interested investors, farmers, rural and interested petroleum industries like United who have a vested interest in the growth of ethanol blends.

Holden should also include Ford in the game. Both Ford and Holden engines has already been proven by tuning shops to easily handle E85 with very slight changes. Ford and Holden has enough muscle to change the Australian landscape. Have a look at the popularity of LPG, Holden and Ford taxis were the driving force in the change.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by nikivee

Myth #1: It’s Food Versus Fuel—We Should Be Growing Crops for Starving Masses, Not Cars!

Because the U.S. grows a lot of it, corn has become the primary crop used in making *ethanol here. This is supposedly *controversial, since corn is identified as a staple food in poverty-stricken parts of the world. But 87% of the U.S. corn crop is fed to animals. In most years, the U.S. sends close to 20% of its corn to other countries. While it is assumed that these exports could feed most of the hungry in the world, the corn is actually sold to wealthy nations to fatten their livestock. Plus, virtually no impoverished nation will accept our corn, even when it is offered as charity, due to its being genetically modified and therefore unfit for human consumption.

Also, fermenting the corn to alcohol results in more meat than if you fed the corn directly to the cattle. We can actually increase the meat supply by first processing corn into alcohol, which only takes 28% of the starch, leaving all the protein and fat, creating a higher-quality animal feed than the original corn.

That's all well and good, but this isn't the US. We are in a major drought so well irrigated land parcels are at a premium. I wasn't referring specifically to corn (though reading my post I can see how you got that impression), but your explanation was still interesting.

[Slick_Holden]

E85 will be good for cars that are built for it, But i still wouldn't trust E10 even in my cars..
I want more guarantee's about these anti corrosion additives before i even thought about it.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by redTT

Holden should forget about the major oil companies, Holden should start siding with interested investors, farmers, rural and interested petroleum industries like United who have a vested interest in the growth of ethanol blends.

Holden should also include Ford in the game. Both Ford and Holden engines has already been proven by tuning shops to easily handle E85 with very slight changes. Ford and Holden has enough muscle to change the Australian landscape. Have a look at the popularity of LPG, Holden and Ford taxis were the driving force in the change.

It may not even take too much muscle on the manufacturers side. E10 is very prevalent up here (like almost 1/3 of pumps in some stations) and seems to be claiming a fairly strong following due to the perceived saving of 2c/litre...which is a benefit you lose in economy. Of course, once more production comes on line, costs will go down further.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by Slick_Holden

E85 will be good for cars that are built for it, But i still wouldn't trust E10 even in my cars..
I want more guarantee's about these anti corrosion additives before i even thought about it.

Some of the independent servos don't even have regular unleaded. They have a 95RON E10 or 98RON E10. Today it was 140.9/l for 95 or 149.9 for 98.

[Slick_Holden]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Some of the independent servos don't even have regular unleaded. They have a 95RON E10 or 98RON E10. Today it was 140.9/l for 95 or 149.9 for 98.

I personally don't like it, But if i bought a car that was made to run it, Then i would use it.

Fuel was 1.48 today.. And expected to drop, Wonder what happen to make fuel dive like this?..

Lets hope car prices steady, People start reacting to large cars again, And lets hope overall prices for living drop to something more respectable.