Holden & Ford Fail Quality Test, Says New Survey

[JoeT]

Top Secret! The Quality Survey Every Car Buyer Must See

Richard Blackburn
11 May 2007
www.drive.com.au

The results of an independent quality survey conducted every six months for car makers have never been made public... until now.

European and Australian cars consistently lag behind their Asian competitors in quality, according to confidential industry figures obtained by the Herald.

The Australian New Car Buyer Survey, carried out on behalf of the industry by respected researcher ACNielsen, shows that the locally designed and built Holden Commodore and Ford Falcon have more faults in the first five months of ownership than their competitors in the large-car class, the Japanese-built Nissan Maxima and the Korean-built Hyundai Grandeur.

Half of all Falcon owners - and almost the same number of Commodore owners - will have a fault in their vehicle in their first five months of ownership, the survey reveals. But owners of a Mazda, Suzuki, Honda and Nissan are likely to be delighted with their purchase with lower than average fault rates.

The figures obtained by the Herald cover the period from January to June 2006. The Commodore figures tally with the experience of the Drive team, which found quality issues with the majority of the new VE models we tested. In Australia, the ACNielsen New Car Buyer Survey is carried out every six months and car companies share quality information with each other on the proviso that no one publishes the results.

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[spykebn]

Great...I hope that doesn't mean the zetas we get here in America are going to have subpar quality too. They do share engineering and most parts.

[carisi2k04]

bull crap, and here's my survey to say so!!!
1. Surveys in australia are notoriously done by the snooty side of town.
2. Only people who like complaining complete these surveys.
3. Most people in the western suburbs of sydney would prefer to spend the 15-20 minutes to work on their car instead of talking to someone about a survey.
4. To service my japenese or german vehicle it is going to cost me $500 in parts or $1000 at the dealers.
5. On a commodore or falcon I can do it with a friend on a weekend for $50-$100 parts and a case of beer for the mate.
6. current affairs programs put commodore and falcon into the lemon basket without realising the guy who is complaing is the one who broke the car in the first place.
7. Yes Holden has recalled vehicles when something is found to be wrong, but so has every other manufacturer in this country including toyota. In australia very rarely is anything newsworthy unless it is a Holden / Ford. The one exception being the Hyundai Excel saga a few years back, which only made it because hyundai denied the problem existed and was caught out.

[CRBoyd91]

I hope this is a big load of crap, because it's rediculous.

[TKR]

How can 'drive' link VE to the survey when they also mention it was done up till June 2006 which is before VE even went on sale? Holden aknowledged that they were intent on improving build quality on VE from VZ and from what I have seen, apart from a couple of minor recalls, they have succeded. There were some minor issues on release but from my understanding these were supplier problems and have been resolved.
One of the issues that VZ (and before) had was problematic diff units. For VE the both the diff type and manufacturer were changed - problem solved. The seat belt recall was initiated by a Holden engineer. This was a supplier problem also and once again has been resolved with little inconvenience to owners.
I cannot believe the Barina numbers as the 'new' model reliability has been much better than the old one. As it only went on sale in Jan 06, maybe there were some old Opel sourced vehicles in the mix. That's the problem with these survey results, you don't see a breakdown of the products by model year etc.
I note 'Drive' have never once mentioned the Camry head gasket recall from late last year but for some reason dig Ford and Holden when ever they can. I only found out by accident.
I do think it is a good idea to publish the results but you can do amazing things with statistical numbers.
I look forward with interest to the Jan 07 - June 07 figures. Maybe then we can see vehicles like Captiva included.
At the end of the day I would rather drive a RWD VE V8 (or V6) rather than the super bland Camry or Camry V6 (ooops - I did it again - Aurion).

[stevecmh]

hopefully they change that when ours come

[redTT]

If fords and Holdens were so fault riddled cars then why do private buyers continue to snap them up, why do fleet managers continue to buy up these large cars (they could just as easily buy a smaller medium sized Nissan Maxima or a Hyundai Grandeur). These Holdens and Fords are bought because of their reliability and their toughness, especially when driving them on unsealed roads.

[kgratton]

Originally Posted by carisi2k04

bull crap, and here's my survey to say so!!!
1. Surveys in australia are notoriously done by the snooty side of town.
2. Only people who like complaining complete these surveys.
3. Most people in the western suburbs of sydney would prefer to spend the 15-20 minutes to work on their car instead of talking to someone about a survey.
4. To service my japenese or german vehicle it is going to cost me $500 in parts or $1000 at the dealers.
5. On a commodore or falcon I can do it with a friend on a weekend for $50-$100 parts and a case of beer for the mate.
6. current affairs programs put commodore and falcon into the lemon basket without realising the guy who is complaing is the one who broke the car in the first place.
7. Yes Holden has recalled vehicles when something is found to be wrong, but so has every other manufacturer in this country including toyota. In australia very rarely is anything newsworthy unless it is a Holden / Ford. The one exception being the Hyundai Excel saga a few years back, which only made it because hyundai denied the problem existed and was caught out.

You forgot:
8. Cultural cringe - people prefer to knock the locally manufactured product over the import, especially if it's a company car they're forced to drive.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by redTT

If fords and Holdens were so fault riddled cars then why do private buyers continue to snap them up, why do fleet managers continue to buy up these large cars (they could just as easily buy a smaller medium sized Nissan Maxima or a Hyundai Grandeur). These Holdens and Fords are bought because of their reliability and their toughness, especially when driving them on unsealed roads.

I have to agree. I work for a large auction company and we find problems with EVERY make and model, including Toyotas.

I think you could find people who do drive the falcon and commodores maybe a little more critical when something does go wrong, also dealership experience could be playing a role here and i would say thats where Ford and Holden do need to improve.

i've seen people have problems with hondas, mazdas, toyotas and when they do, they more inclined to go 'easy' or dismiss problems as a 'one off'
as where if it's a falcon or commodore they instantly complain or comment that its 'just a holden or ford'

Heck the other day we had an 03 accord, the american version that had it's dash cluster replaced 3 times, the problem was then traced to the wiring loom, which will cost in excess of $4,000 and they are still having problems pin pointing the actual cause. yes a one off, but i have never seen a commodore or falcon with such an expensive electrical problem.
The Honda service devision has indicated this is not an uncommon problem.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by kgratton

You forgot:
8. Cultural cringe - people prefer to knock the locally manufactured product over the import, especially if it's a company car they're forced to drive.

Correct, thats where it gets hard to judge the actual truth to these stats.

[Ssom]

Originally Posted by TKR

I cannot believe the Barina numbers as the 'new' model reliability has been much better than the old one. As it only went on sale in Jan 06, maybe there were some old Opel sourced vehicles in the mix. That's the problem with these survey results, you don't see a breakdown of the products by model year etc.

I can believe it, seeing as the Viva did not score very well.


Actually this whole survey bought no surprises. Australian vehicles do commonly have niggly faults. They're very reliable and durable, but quality isn't quite Japanese level.

[Slick_Holden]

Originally Posted by spykebn

Great...I hope that doesn't mean the zetas we get here in America are going to have subpar quality too. They do share engineering and most parts.

Don't fear even with faults it's still a class above the U.S GM build quality you can take that to the bank.

Originally Posted by Ssom

I can believe it, seeing as the Viva did not score very well.


Actually this whole survey bought no surprises. Australian vehicles do commonly have niggly faults. They're very reliable and durable, but quality isn't quite Japanese level.

My friend owns a Viva and it's never been back to holden with a single issue as yet. She has owned it for 8 months now and it's driven daily.

[Ssom]

Originally Posted by Slick_Holden

My friend owns a Viva and it's never been back to holden with a single issue as yet. She has owned it for 8 months now and it's driven daily.

At the same time my Uncle has never been back to Peugeot with a single problem on his 307 in the last 6 years, yet look at a reliability survey and see where that particular car finishes.

I'm only going on what the particular survey the thread poster has provided, the Viva scored 57, not a good score.

[Robert Ryan]

Don't fear even with faults it's still a class above the U.S GM build quality you can take that to the bank

After driving US vehicles in the US. How very very true.

[redimpss5]

Originally Posted by Robert Ryan

After driving US vehicles in the US. How very very true.

HEHEHEHE!!