Holden Dumps 2.0L Six, But Introduces Diesel & Six-Speed Auto With Epica Upgrade

[mikmak]

^^^ The Family...erm, family of engines have no where near the refinement of the I6. Take one for a spin Rick. They are seriously quiet. Not sure how the diesel will sound but in the Captiva it pulled okay for the average punter.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by Ssom

ZC's aren't that bad, hardly Honda-quality, but improved on the JS at least. Fords quality improvements (Reliability of the Focus and post '00 Mondeo has been more or less Japanese levels) that began with the Focus in 1999 have forced Opel/Vauxhall to lift their game, in the same way GM in the States had to.

The quality yardstick for the Insignia would be the AH Astra rather than the ZC Vectra. I recall you saying somewhere that you dealt with warranty claims for Holden, but I don't know of any serious ZC issues outside of dirty oil clogging the lubrication jet in 2.2's (And snapping cam-chain) and the infamous parking brake debacle on the manuals, perhaps you could enlighten me as to the rest.

Me too because Mrs. mak wants a CDXI and I'm quite partial as well.

[aball]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

That will still continue - the car is selling well both at home and in China as the Buick Excelle.

The Chinese Buick Excelle is the Holden Viva, not the Epica

http://excelle.buick.com.cn/

Originally Posted by mikmak

If this is the same as the Captiva and Astra diesel (which I assume it would be) this could be useful:
STEINBAUER

If I remember correctly, the Astra diesel engine (1.910 litre) was a joint development between Opel/Vauxhall and Fiat, whereas the Captiva's (1.998 litre) was a Daewoo design, albeit with very similar outputs (except for the Astra auto)

[BigAls87Z28]

Isnt the Epica going to be replaced by the Cruze? Will it be the Holden Cruze?

[nadepalma]

Wow, good to see GM putting further development money into this product til the next gen comes online. Excellent news.

I didn't get a chance to read all the posts - what happend to the 2.0L I6? Is it just a smaller brother to the 2.5L engine?

[aball]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Isnt the Epica going to be replaced by the Cruze? Will it be the Holden Cruze?

The Cobalt sized Viva (rebadged Daewoo Lacetti/Suzuki Forenza) gets replaced by the Cruze, not the (approximately) Malibu sized Epica

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Getting better.

II'm not a fan at all of the Epica's styling, but can't say anything else about it having never been in one. The styling looks distinctly Chinese (Even though it isn't), and this upgrade still only looks like it came from 2001.

I am definitely part of the 'Replace this POS with the Insignia!' crowd.
The diesel and 6 speed auto make me piss my pants though, they had just better be decent units, and hopefully also transfer over into the Commodore range.

If Holden are going to update their transmissions, why go for a 5 speed anyway if they'll want to replace that again within a couple years. Go 6 speed all around and possibly even a few 7's.

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by mikmak

I think you were in too much of a hurry to use your favourite cocked hat ref BBDOS. The petrol Epica gets 9.3l/100km. Diesel Mondeo is 7.3l/100km. Diesel Epica is actually less efficient at 7.6.

Fuel economy is one thing: cost to run is another. And the Epica does win out there, quite substantially, to the tune of a couple-three grand better a year according to RACV, NMRA, RACQ etc. And that's the petrol model. And unlike the Mondeo, the diesel is not going to cost $6-8K extra.

I'm not pretending for a moment the Epica is a momentous drive. I wouldn't own one. Neither would most people used to a Commodore. But they aren't going to buy a Mondeo, either. I suspect most Falcon buyers wouldm't. No-one is ever going to admit they spent thousands on a car and are dissappointed, but I don't see anyone used to the grunt of a Falc relishing the breathlessness of 2-something litres with a load on board. You wouldn't do it by choice.

The test of a car is how it sells for retail. Epica sold as many as they bring in with little/no discounting.

Cars like the Mondeo and Epica are there to catch the 30-something newcar buyers on their third-fourth car who've come from FWD econonoboxes and don't particularly care about driving, but aren't as boring as the 'Big Mac on wheels' Camry buyers who just automatically buy the next upsize beige box.

They are under the illusion by driving a big four instead of a big six they're going to save reams on running costs when in fact the Camry costs virtually as much on the motoring organisation's figures to own as the Aurion, and only $5-10 a week less than a Falcon or Commodore for a lot less car.

If the Insignia is a good car I'm all for it coming here - I liked the last Vectra but it was a worse bomb than the Epica, sold in similar numbers, made Holden precious little money as it only sold when discounted. All we have of the Insignia at present is pictures - the AH Astra looked very nice close up until we got a good look at it, too.

The interior and stupid coupe rear, and poor performance/economy due to weight with no power upgrade made many repeat buyers like my missus turn their nose up. If the diesel auto had the same motor/economy of the manual, or didn't cost nearly 40 large she'd have one of them.

She took a coupe for a drive - hated almost everything about it compared to her TS, numb electric steering, undecipherable controls, crap dash fascia. There's no guarantee the Insignia won't be the same - pretty face, ordinary drive.

[Black AH CDX]

JoeT can you please post a pic of the MY09 Epica in your first post, instead of the old model?

So these came into work the other day and I took one (petrol) for a spin. So much better with the 6 speed. The thing actually moves now. Gear box holds red line in manual mode too. Much nicer to drive.

[teamkiwiracing]

Originally Posted by Black AH CDX

JoeT can you please post a pic of the MY09 Epica in your first post, instead of the old model?

So these came into work the other day and I took one (petrol) for a spin. So much better with the 6 speed. The thing actually moves now. Gear box holds red line in manual mode too. Much nicer to drive.

Good to hear. Just wondering though, has the dash/speedo been updated as well, similar to that in the Daewoo Tosca? Also have the other changes such as the touch screen audio control unit carried through to the Epica as well?

[Dr Terry]

Hi Guys.

Has anyone noticed that Holden still refer to the new Diesel models as CDX & CDXi in their media release, but that picture clearly shows a CDTi badge on the boot !!

Dr Terry.

[Ssom]

The CDTI is the branding name for the diesel engine in GM cars, whilst the CDX/CDXI is the trim designation.

On the topic of names, I'm hoping the Viva gets a new name when the new car comes out, because naming a car after a POS Vauxhall and then marketing it to people who remember the POS Vauxhall (That being the 40+ bracket) is a face-palm worthy idea.

[teamkiwiracing]

Originally Posted by Ssom

The CDTI is the branding name for the diesel engine in GM cars, whilst the CDX/CDXI is the trim designation.

On the topic of names, I'm hoping the Viva gets a new name when the new car comes out, because naming a car after a POS Vauxhall and then marketing it to people who remember the POS Vauxhall (That being the 40+ bracket) is a face-palm worthy idea.

It is possible that it will be renamed Holden Cruze if GM follow through with there policy to give all its new generation global cars, global names. Cruze is better than Viva though may cause some confusion with the previous Cruze.

Anyway heres an interesting article in the NZ Hearld stating the "Slight" possibility that we could in fact get the new insigma (Very Small but possible chance) Insignia pins hope on Europe

[TKR]

Originally Posted by aball

If I remember correctly, the Astra diesel engine (1.910 litre) was a joint development between Opel/Vauxhall and Fiat, whereas the Captiva's (1.998 litre) was a Daewoo design, albeit with very similar outputs (except for the Astra auto)

The GM-DAT diesel was designed by VM-Motori and built by GM-DAT.
Of note is the fact that it is 'very' closely related to the Hyundai diesel.

[TKR]

Originally Posted by Ssom

The CDTI is the branding name for the diesel engine in GM cars, whilst the CDX/CDXI is the trim designation.

On the topic of names, I'm hoping the Viva gets a new name when the new car comes out, because naming a car after a POS Vauxhall and then marketing it to people who remember the POS Vauxhall (That being the 40+ bracket) is a face-palm worthy idea.

Yeah, I don't think anyone will mourn the passing of the 'Viva'. It really is the low point in the current GM-DAT lineup.
While using Cruze could be slightly confusing, at least the previous Holden Cruze was a pretty good, if slightly expensive, motor car.