Fuel Economy Issues Make New Holden Monaro Program "Highly Unlikely", Says Lutz

[dratnol]

Originally Posted by jkennedy293

I didn't realize the platform was so different. Either way, I don't know why U.S. CAFE would affect selling the Monaro in Australia, and other markets. I bet the Middle East would love to have this car.

Oh well. It's a shame it won't be built, and if it does get built it will probably watered down.

What would the volume be for Australia and the Middle East (I guess Europe too)? Does the factory currently have the capacity to produce the Monaro/Coupe 60 along with the other Zetas?

[dratnol]

Originally Posted by Tony's BlkGTP

I'm sorry, but you are dead wrong!! I would way more rather have the Monaro based coupe than I ever would the Camaro!! The Coupe 60 is a personal luxury performance coupe which definitely fits the bill for me and I don't care for the cramped looks the Camaro will give it's owners. If that's the case, I would rather spend a little more and buy a Corvette which will be even better than the Camaro.

I really hate the fact that they showed a concept like the Coupe 60 only for Lutz to say that they are now focused on economy cars. Why not still build it in limited numbers for the customers that are willing to pay for it as well as all the costs that will be associated with it. I know that I can't afford it right at this moment, but I will not always be at this stage in life and plan to purchase a performance oriented luxury coupe in the future.

With what you described, I think Buick might be a better match for this car. GM could get a higher profit margin and the personal luxuary coupe fits with Buick much better.

What was the Invicta teaser shot based on?

[dratnol]

Originally Posted by 351E

somehow BMW can make a business out of only RWD cars and special coupes like this ... but GM can't leverage the Monaro off the same platform as Commodore? bunk.

BMW also pays CAFE fines every year and gets a decent profit from each car. GM is not in the shape to do that right now.

[crooner214]

This CAFE excuse parade MUST end. It is there, it is not going away, and whining does nothing but make you look bad, Mr. Lutz. Instead of crying foul every week, it is time for a paradigm shift. The Camaro with the LNF 2.0 is a great start, as is the ST as a full-size truck alternative (even though they won't sell many). Keep being innovative with the product plans!

Regarding the Coupe 60, I bet they could use a Commodore and make it into a coupe without changing the structure. Move the b-pillar back, use sheetmetal (aluminum) to make up the back door spaces, drop in the ZR-1 engine, and sell it as an HSV only Coupe 60 R. Limited production + high price = Dream Car.

[johnny smallblock]

I love Bob Lutz and GM, but he's got to just shut up about CAFE. The rules aren't going away. Start shoving the next gen BAS into everything with 4 wheels. Improve your 4-cyl engines so the Aveo gets more then 4mpg better then the Impala. And learn that you can put an efficient V6 into a car like the Monaro and people will still buy it. Geez. Is he trying to make GM look like they can't produce anything but guzzlers?

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by johnny smallblock

Improve your 4-cyl engines so the Aveo gets more then 4mpg better then the Impala.

Exactly! If they can get the same mileage that the competition gets out of their small cars their will be more breathing room for trucks and some V8s here and there. If the Aveo and Cobalt sold at Yaris and Corolla levels something like the Monaro (or at least a US version) would be that much more doable. GM is apparently concentrating on shoehorning a V8 into the Lambdas... is that really a priority over getting the Aveo to 45 mpg and the Cobalt to 35?

[MCGARRETT]

Statements like this confirm that Bob Lutz is a member on this forum somewhere, he makes statements like, "...maybe the next Corvette will be FWD.." and the runs to his laptop or PDA and just watches us freak out, he gets off on it, I am sure of it.

[tgagneguam]

Overall, I think Lutz has done wonders for GM. But like anyone, he has his flaws. I don't find his statements about CAFE especially useful. They do come across as whining, which in turn detracts from a company that is general moving in the right direction public image-wise.

Lutz, you've made it crystal clear that CAFE will negatively impact vehicle selection in the future. We get that. Now quietly set to the task of meeting the standards of the legislation.

[Tony's BlkGTP]

Originally Posted by dratnol

With what you described, I think Buick might be a better match for this car. GM could get a higher profit margin and the personal luxuary coupe fits with Buick much better.

What was the Invicta teaser shot based on?

Maybe to you, but I totally disagree. Buicks are not known to offer manual transmission and they would not be the same league of BMW's luxury coupes.

[Tony's BlkGTP]

Originally Posted by crooner214

Regarding the Coupe 60, I bet they could use a Commodore and make it into a coupe without changing the structure. Move the b-pillar back, use sheetmetal (aluminum) to make up the back door spaces, drop in the ZR-1 engine, and sell it as an HSV only Coupe 60 R. Limited production + high price = Dream Car.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't see why something like that could not be done and it would be huge penalty in retooling.

[dratnol]

Originally Posted by Tony's BlkGTP

Maybe to you, but I totally disagree. Buicks are not known to offer manual transmission and they would not be the same league of BMW's luxury coupes.

But Pontiac means luxuary to you and is in the "same league" as BMW?

[joshls]

Booooo!

[Tony's BlkGTP]

Originally Posted by dratnol

But Pontiac means luxuary to you and is in the "same league" as BMW?

Is there a problem with having luxury with your performance? I don't care to have all performance with no luxury amentities. If that's the case, I could settle for Chevrolet products. Yes, the whole line has been blurred with Cadillac going high in the performance areana, but I can't afford a Cadillac for now and I don't want a Buick. To me, Pontiac represents performance, but why can't they have some luxury features for the customers that want it.

[mmciau]

The more I hear of Lutz, the more I'm convinced that he is a supreme optimist working for a batch of faceless beancounters!

The designers trot out a new concept car, Lutz gets enthused and promotes it!

The faceless beancounters race up to Wagoner and "please shut Lutz up."

Lutz gets called into Wagoner's office and gets told, "Bob, to save face, get out there on the hustings and spell out CAFE for as as long as they will listen. We haven't got enough cash to develop a new car because that cash is earmarked for our annual performance bonuses!!!!"

So the Concept/Monaro will go the same way as the Commodore Diesel, the Pontiac G8 Wagon and so on and on and on!!!!!!!!!!


Mike

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Ford's comments on the upcoming CAFE regulations: "..."
Toyota's comments on the upcoming CAFE regulations: "..."
Honda's comments on the upcoming CAFE regulations: "..."
BMW's comments on the upcoming CAFE regulations: "..."
Chrysler's comments on the upcoming CAFE regulations: "..."
Mercedes' comments on the upcoming CAFE regulations: "..."

Some days GM's seems like a big crybaby of a company. Shut your trap Lutz and get back to building cars! Why do you feel the need to verbalize every single thought that runs through your head! Can't make a business case out of a large coupe? Build a smaller one! If there's a market for a large platform like Zeta with multiple variations worldwide, how is there not one for a smaller platform, also with multiple variations worldwide? There will be Holdens and Cadillacs and Pontiacs spun off of Alpha, as well as possibly Opels and Vauxhalls and Buicks and even Chevrolets. Get'er done man!

AMEN!

STFU Putz & get to work.....if you spent half as much time developing product and working on R&D as you do running your worthless mouth.....maybe we'd all be better off?