Doubt Emerges Over Hybrid Commodore Program, With Holden Questioning It's Viability

[JoeT]

Doubt Emerges Over Hybrid Commodore

James Stanford
14 July 2008
www.goauto.com.au

Petrol-electric Commodore no longer a certainty as Holden boss questions hybrid tech.

GM Holden chairman and managing director Mark Reuss has cast doubt over the hybrid Commodore program, indicating last week that the petrol-electric large car in development might not be brought to market.

Responding to questions at the release of a CSIRO report into future fuels last Friday, Mr Reuss also questioned the viability of hybrid technology.

The position contradicts GM Asia Pacific president Nick Reilly who told GoAuto and other Australian media in May that the Commodore would be “one of the first hybrids you see” with a timeframe of “a couple of years.”

However, Mr Reuss made it clear that Holden’s priority was to develop dedicated-LPG technology, as well as leading with cars that run on E85 ethanol fuel (85 per cent ethanol, 15 per cent petrol).

When asked specifically about a hybrid Commodore, Mr Reuss indicated the car was far from a production certainty.

“We aren’t going to provide a solution, we are going to provide many solutions here,” he said. “One of the many solutions may or may not be a hybrid Commodore.”

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[Rick_VT]

I think it would be a big mistake if Holden didnt bring out a hybrid version of the Commodore and Statesman, the potential fuel economy benefits would be pretty big, specially in the stop/start of Sydney peak hour, given toyota have announced there goin to do a camry hybrid Holden would be stupid to let toyota take all the feel good news about having the only hybrid local aussie car on the market

[jbernie]

Certainly Holden needs to get hybrids to market, but not at the cost of killing the company.

I could see the BAS+ system being a good starting point, turning the engine off during stop/go traffic would be a good starting point.

2mode Hybrid is great, but just as things are over here in the US, they would be subsidizing the system pretty heavily to get it into anything less than a fully loaded Calais, Statesman or Caprice.

If GM can get the 2mode upfront cost down from around $10k (Lutz's "it is the cost of a small car" comment) to say $5k then they could move it down to a Berlina easily and potentially into the fleet vehicles.

[zete]

Originally Posted by jbernie

Certainly Holden needs to get hybrids to market, but not at the cost of killing the company.

I could see the BAS+ system being a good starting point, turning the engine off during stop/go traffic would be a good starting point.

2mode Hybrid is great, but just as things are over here in the US, they would be subsidizing the system pretty heavily to get it into anything less than a fully loaded Calais, Statesman or Caprice.

If GM can get the 2mode upfront cost down from around $10k (Lutz's "it is the cost of a small car" comment) to say $5k then they could move it down to a Berlina easily and potentially into the fleet vehicles.

Why not offer both. BAS+ as the base hybrid and the 2-mode for those feeling especially green -- and loaded with green .

[Ssom]

Good, hybrids are ****, should be focusing on diesel.

[mikmak]

Even the Diesel LPG injected System :nods: Every little bit helps.

[Robert Ryan]

Even the Diesel LPG injected System :nods: Every little bit helps.

Something that seemingly does not exist in the US. Getting a 40% increase in torque in some cases cannot be sneezed at and (at the moment) much lower costs in fuel.

[jbernie]

Originally Posted by Ssom

Good, hybrids are ****, should be focusing on diesel.

Not sure where you are Ssom, but your b'day is Australia Day there have been some reports in the Sydney Morning Herald in recent weeks about the total cost of ownership for diesels in the Australian market is higher than for regular petrol versions.

Now, this is just the Australian market, and relates more to how things are subsidized vs Europe etc. IIRC the additional cost of a diesel model over a petrol model plus the lack of subsidies, or is it higher taxes(?) on diesel fuel makes the long term cost worse.

All of this is made more difficult by the fact Australia is a relatively small smarket with some home based manufacturing, getting economy of scale on some systems isn't easy when you maybe talking all of 70,000 units per year max on a top selling model.

[BBDOS CV8]

The total cost of diesel is higher because most companies charge much more for it. But Jaguar, Mondeo and a number of other cars (Captiva) are selling at more than 50% diesel, even though the Mondeo is 20% more expensive with the oiler.

If they bought in the Captiva diesel in the Commodore it would not cost anywhere near as much as the VM Motori - the Cappy diesel is a similar mass to the Commodore and in fact uses the HFV6.

What do Hybrids get you? A much-reduced payload and towing capacity if the Denali and Camry Hybrid concept is any indication for a meagre consumption improvement.

Australia needs 1. cheap diesels and 2. good LPG versions, as the infrastructure is already here right across the country. Hybrids can stay in countries baffled by bullsh!t rather than dazzled by data.

P.S. Ssom is a K1W1 - don't oay any attention to him. Usually unlike a computer you need to punch the data into people from Un Zud twice!

[menace]

I don't see the point of a Hybrid Commodore. A Diesel and DLPG version is the answer... Seriously what percentage of car's sold in Oz are Hybrid?

[mikmak]

Err...compared to the percentage that are available in the market?