Confirmed: Hybrid Holden Commodore By 2010!

[mmciau]

Originally Posted by Cortazzo

I bet they are overcharging for the 2 mode in the SUVs to quickly amortize the R&D even though they claim they are taking a loss. I think they realize they can't charge $10k more for a hybrid large sedan.

I'll wait and see if this is on line in 2010!

IF, I say again IF Holden are give a "free hand" to get this up and running, it is a possibility, but I fear GMHQ will keep shifting the goal posts!


Mike

[BBDOS CV8]

I'm all for having hybrid for export versions of the Commodore - it might even make it a goer as a Opel in Europe. But I want to see the VM Motori diesel offered as an option here. Diesel in Oz, unlike America has good acceptance. And back to back testing of the Prius and other cars like the Civic hybrid against small diesels show the oilers knock the Everreadys into a cocked hat for consumption, even around town. When that penetrates the consciousness - and it will - hybrids will be seen as second-rate, especially when the costs outweigh the cost of a diesel option seemingly.

The article on V8s in the Age on the weekend showed that diesel passenger vehicles have increased by 377% since 1997. That is one area the Commy will lose out, especially if the Falcon has one available.

In fact, the real reason for the decline in big cars sales is nothing to do with small cars, which haven't really sold more as a proportion of the market. It is the rise of SUVs from almost nothing to 20% of the market. Along with a change of families, with less large families and more single parent or plain adult singles, the demand for large cars has dropped.

That artilce made it clear: people still like big cars and V8s especially, just they don't need them so much. Holden sold 11,480 V8s last year in Oz which is a record, and HSV well over 5,000 cars, nearly all V8s, too.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

I'm all for having hybrid for export versions of the Commodore - it might even make it a goer as a Opel in Europe. But I want to see the VM Motori diesel offered as an option here. Diesel in Oz, unlike America has good acceptance. And back to back testing of the Prius and other cars like the Civic hybrid against small diesels show the oilers knock the Everreadys into a cocked hat for consumption, even around town. When that penetrates the consciousness - and it will - hybrids will be seen as second-rate, especially when the costs outweigh the cost of a diesel option seemingly.

The article on V8s in the Age on the weekend showed that diesel passenger vehicles have increased by 377% since 1997. That is one area the Commy will lose out, especially if the Falcon has one available.

In fact, the real reason for the decline in big cars sales is nothing to do with small cars, which haven't really sold more as a proportion of the market. It is the rise of SUVs from almost nothing to 20% of the market. Along with a change of families, with less large families and more single parent or plain adult singles, the demand for large cars has dropped.

That artilce made it clear: people still like big cars and V8s especially, just they don't need them so much. Holden sold 11,480 V8s last year in Oz which is a record, and HSV well over 5,000 cars, nearly all V8s, too.

I actually agree with you

Falcon and commodore still have a relevant market, they just need to offer more options.
Diesel will be a major bonus for commodore and falcon, a pity they don't have them here and now.

Interesting to note that Holden is thinking about small car manufacturing, just like Ford is with focus come 2011.
Just goes to show you can't count any option out, yet Ford was being questioned about it's decision to bring focus locally...

[mikmak]

I was wondering what the new marketting campaign was all about. I couldn't really see too much that related to Commodore being particularly green, but it would lead me to believe that something is coming sooner rather than later.

Falcon also has a good opportunity to stick a diesel in the Wagon as this would surely have a big impact for their Fleet contracts.

+ for both, it would be a significant contributer to regaining a sizeable share in the user chooser lease market.

[BBDOS CV8]

Here's the companion article, about a four-cylinder.

Four cylinder Commodore

Commodore's traditional six-cylinder engine could soon be joined by a new four-cylinder engine - the first for Holden's large car since 1984.

Personally, I think it is a lot of trouble for little gain especially compared to performance, but what do I know.

Actually the TDi four out of the Captiva might make a very good unit and produce some real savings, and seeing as that car is already made with a east-west HFV6 it should simplfy the reverse engineering to retrofit it back into the north-south Commy. And I bet it would be a lot cheaper engine to use, it's Euro IV compliant already. Judging from economy of the Captiva, you could get a 8L/100km VE. From all reports it does a good job moving that thing, so a Commodore would be a cakewalk.

[VB3.3]

[quote=Rick_VT;1402242]But doesnt that cost nearly $10,000 for the trucks?? thats a huge extra cost onto a Commodore,

A big price difference doesn't stop people bying a prius over a corolla. I think a big part of the success acheived by the Prius is its differentiation from normal models. People want to be seen as being green.

Alot of Victorian government departments are now uising the Prius.

I don't think hybrids as they exist wil be the final answer, but I think in the medium term you have to be in the market. I think it will be great if Holden can provide a full suite of solutions

[djo165]

Originally Posted by uvaeeman

but given the increasing prices the sensible side of me is smacking the "I want a fraking fast car!" part of me for not considering a more efficient vehicle...

Same feeling here. I like the new G8, but even with a short commute to work, I can't afford to go back to a V8. But a 3.6 V6 paired up with the two-mode hybrid system sure would be nice.

[Aych Es Vee]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTT a minute!!!
Werent diesels 'confirmed' about 6 months ago?


what the hell is going on here???????????????? Are we getting both?

[Generation IV]

Originally Posted by Aych Es Vee

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTT TTTTTTTT a minute!!!
Werent diesels 'confirmed' about 6 months ago?


what the hell is going on here???????????????? Are we getting both?

Yeah, I was just thinking the same. Holden has confirmed that a diesel Commodore will be here by 2009, along with the introduction of the VF, then in 2010, a hybrid will join the line-up with a minor model refresh (VFII?)

So far, what is most likely to happen is:

pre-VF (2008) - cylinder shutdown technology for V8s, W427 introduced

VF (2009) - Direct Injection V6, 6-speed auto for V6, Diesel (3.0L turbo-diesel likely), updated exterior and interior, engine modifications

Uncertainties that are possible - supercharged V6 (possible VF introduction)

To be honest, we all should of seen this coming. Doing nothing for the market for a couple years now and with loads of rumours swirling, its no surprise that its all coming out now. A diesel and a hybrid and a more efficient but more powerful V6 will definitely boost sales and help Holden catch Toyota back up.

What Ford needs to do now is begin to announce plans and get a move on with a diesel. Forget a twin-turbo V6 as the most important engine for now, a diesel is more important. Get them on the market and I gurantee you, the Australian car industry will change forever.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by Generation IV

....

So far, what is most likely to happen is:

pre-VF (2008) - cylinder shutdown technology for V8s, W427 introduced

VF (2009) - Direct Injection V6, 6-speed auto for V6, Diesel (3.0L turbo-diesel likely), updated exterior and interior, engine modifications

Uncertainties that are possible - supercharged V6 (possible VF introduction)

Good luck with that, unless you meant 5 speed for Omega/Berlina and 6spd for Calais/SV6/Statesman(which should already have it IMO).

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by BBDOS CV8

......

Actually the TDi four out of the Captiva might make a very good unit and produce some real savings, and seeing as that car is already made with a east-west HFV6 it should simplfy the reverse engineering to retrofit it back into the north-south Commy. And I bet it would be a lot cheaper engine to use, it's Euro IV compliant already. Judging from economy of the Captiva, you could get a 8L/100km VE. From all reports it does a good job moving that thing, so a Commodore would be a cakewalk.

I drove the Diesel Captiva about 3 weeks ago. It got along okay and would have some potential for long commutes, but I wouldn't want to go up any significant mountain ranges *flashback alert*harks me back to sitting in the back seat of mum and dads Renault 12 with the 2 other children of the corn, loaded up for a day at rosebud (from Bittern for those in the know), barely getting up the hill, picking up scary speed down the next slope than running out of steam half way, then repeat /flashback. The diesel captiva is only 1 passenger heavier than the Commodore, so I would expect similar performance. It ain't flattering.


Renault 12 - The first "world" car for when the world was flat .

[jlt0x]

Using the 2-mode hybrid system would be great! There shouldn't much difference b/t Zeta and Lambda versions of the 2-mode system. That would drop costs to re-engineer and manufacture the 2-mode overall and update for higher output limitations and AWD systems.

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted by jlt0x

Using the 2-mode hybrid system would be great! There shouldn't much difference b/t Zeta and Lambda versions of the 2-mode system. That would drop costs to re-engineer and manufacture the 2-mode overall and update for higher output limitations and AWD systems.

Lambda is FWD based and Zeta is RWD based, there is a huge difference. The Zeta should be a able to use something very similar to the Tahoe/Silverado 2-mode system however.

[jlt0x]

Originally Posted by WishIhadatruck

Lambda is FWD based and Zeta is RWD based, there is a huge difference. The Zeta should be a able to use something very similar to the Tahoe/Silverado 2-mode system however.

Thanks, I forgot that Lambda is FWD-based. You're right, I should've said GMT-900s (Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade). But if CAFE standards are at issue, GM should be looking to really build off the Denali XT concept to make future large SUVs using a revised Zeta platform and including the 2-mode hybrid system in both RWD and AWD formats.

Either way, the 2-mode hybrid system is the way to go whether you're using an I4 (regular or turbo), V6 (DI), V8 (multi-displacement), or diesel engines of any size. The hardware can be tweaked to handle the various outputs and the software must be tweaked to recognize the various engine characterisistics when determining the best method to maximize powertrain efficiency for the various driving dynamics.

[Slick_Holden]

Good news indeed.

But 4cyl engine.. Please not in a commodore, Size will kill fuel..
Compare the Aurion and Camry, Both use around the same fuel..

We need to introduce a 4cylinder turbo diesel then they are talking.

A 4cly turbo sounds alright, But honestly it will need that turbo.

Four-cylinder Commodores are nothing new. Responding to the oil crisis of the 1970s, Holden produced a Commodore four-cylinder from 1980 to 1984.
The idea never caught on and slow sales led to the demise of what was a sluggish car to drive.

My brother owned a VH 4cylinder.. I drove it plenty and my 2 cylinder blown Gemini motor still beat it's arse.

What ever happen to the 2.8-3.2lt V6 options?.