Saturn's hybrid SUV taken for test drive

[Proetus]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13839749/

The vehicle looks pretty normal inside, too. While a new indicator tells when the electric power is being charged or is being used to assist the gas engine, there’s no central graphic display on the dashboard showing the hybrid system at work, the way there is inside a Toyota hybrid.

And there’s no bar chart in a display on the dashboard to show a driver how his or her driving is affecting fuel economy, the way there is inside Ford’s Escape.

Indeed, because the Vue Green Line is based on an aging Vue SUV, with its old electronics communications “bus,” drivers of the Green Line don’t even have an onboard computer telling them the fuel mileage they’re getting.

They must figure this out for themselves — say, at the gas station when they fill the tank. They then can manually divide the gallons it took to refill the tank into the miles that they traveled on the previous tank and discover what mileage they got.

It’s not a sophisticated system especially considering that the majority of American hybrid buyers purchase their vehicles to boost their fuel mileage and want to readily see the mileage they’re getting as they travel.

Additionally, it seems odd that a hybrid, considered high tech, doesn’t include an on-board computer for fuel mileage when so many other, non-hybrid vehicles do.

Saturn officials did add an “Eco” light in the instrument cluster that goes on whenever the system detects that the vehicle at that moment is getting more than the government “average fuel economy ratings.” But this appears to be vacuum-operated, not computer-calculated, and comes on at predictable times — whenever a driver lets off the gas and is coasting, for example.

It's not all bad though.

During testing, I found the Vue hybrid’s engine on/off and supplemental electric power came on smoothly, while in some of the more complex Toyota hybrids there has been occasional roughness — a feeling as if the vehicle’s about to stall in transitions.

[Michael_S]

I often think cries of "import bias" are unwarranted, but I think there's some mild import bias here.

1. The author fails to mention that Honda's hybrids also cannot power the vehicle under electric power alone. He considers the Vue to be technologically inferior to the Escape and Highlander because they can run solely on electrical power.

2. The author says the Vue hybrid is based upon the "aging" Vue. The Vue was introduced in 2002 as a 2003 model, I believe. 4 model years is not a long time for any automaker.

There are two legitimate complaints, though:
1. The lack of an instantaneous mileage indicator guage. Including one of those makes it easier for the driver to learn how to conserve fuel when they drive.

2. The $23,000 cost for a Vue hybrid makes it the cheapest SUV hybrid but still leaves it more expensive than a Prius and a Civic hybrid. GM really should have a midsize sedan hybrid in production already. That's where the most efficiency can be gained.

[igor]

Yeah Toyota has been having that notchy problems forever... Ford solved it despite originally purchasing the software from Toyota.

but I think it's good GM finally got on the Hybrid boat and cut their own way to it, too,

I think the idea of semi-hybrid needs to settle into peoples minds a little ... the Escape for example is very satisfying... because you can hear the engine stop... and you can "hear" the motor take you from a stop sign etc ...

Finally (I do not want to argue but) we all know hybrids are not at all eficient when it comes to operating $$ and purchase $$ and all the other expenses one might hlave with their car.... it is a fashion statement, and the Vue might just not have fachionable enough drivetrain...

Igor

[01cavalier]

I can understand the criticism about knowing what mileage is being acheived, the electonics setup is not capable of that, and whether it just be too simple or a bit outdated, it should still have that. That one seems mote legitimate, though having a hybrid at such a good value is great. AT least it can undercut the price of other hybrids it competes with and still do quite well.

[goochman]

Does anyone think the onboard computer MPG is accurate? After a few years with one in my Grand Prix I stopped looking at it since it was usually off by 2~4 mpgs. My BMW one isnt that hot either. It might be good to show off to friends but its day to day usefullness to me was 0.

I once got my Grand Prix MPG indicator to get up to 99 mpgs!

[mjd1001]

Originally Posted by goochman

Does anyone think the onboard computer MPG is accurate? After a few years with one in my Grand Prix I stopped looking at it since it was usually off by 2~4 mpgs. My BMW one isnt that hot either. It might be good to show off to friends but its day to day usefullness to me was 0.

I once got my Grand Prix MPG indicator to get up to 99 mpgs!

We have one in our HHR, I tested it twice to verify how accurate the onboard computer was, and both times it was 100% the same as my own calculations, down to the tenth of a mpg.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

We have one in our HHR, I tested it twice to verify how accurate the onboard computer was, and both times it was 100% the same as my own calculations, down to the tenth of a mpg.

The HHR uses the "Gen III" version of the DIC. The Grand Prix has the "Gen I" System, the Malibu and G6 have the "Gen II" and A LOT of GM cars have the "Gen III"

The "Gen I" was VERY bad at MPG, the "II" is better, but I notice mine can be off a few times mostly becasue these systems do not keep track down to the .1 marker. For example mine (a "II") goes from 24.5 to 25 to 25.6 to 26.1 to 26.7 to 27.4 etc... with no intermediate stops. The "III" is a VERY good system and it is usually spot on.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by igor

Yeah Toyota has been having that notchy problems forever... Ford solved it despite originally purchasing the software from Toyota.

Did they purchase the software?

As far as the hybrid powertrain goes, Ford developed one all on their own. When they went to patent it, they discovered that Toyota had patented identical technology for their own hybrids much earlier. So Ford was forced to license the technology from Toyota even though the developed it independently. Toyota did not charge them anything for the license.

A lot of people have read that Ford licensed the technology from Toyota and thought that Toyota did all of the research and development and Ford simply purchased the results. That's not what happened.

Finally (I do not want to argue but) we all know hybrids are not at all eficient when it comes to operating $$ and purchase $$ and all the other expenses one might hlave with their car.... it is a fashion statement, and the Vue might just not have fachionable enough drivetrain...

Igor

But the Vue's price tag is attractive. A regular 4-cylinder Vue is cheaper, but you can get the hybrid in place of the Redline. You lose a lot of acceleration, but get great mileage.

The Highlander Hybrid, by comparison, is entirely a fashion purchase. It costs so much more than the regular Highlander that your financial argument for the purchase is very weak.

[Butz]

Well a new Vue is on the way, and hopefully all of his complains would be fixed.

[jwrebholz]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

2. The $23,000 cost for a Vue hybrid makes it the cheapest SUV hybrid but still leaves it more expensive than a Prius and a Civic hybrid. GM really should have a midsize sedan hybrid in production already. That's where the most efficiency can be gained.

The Civic and Prius are small cars. The Vue is an SUV. It's a physically LARGER vehicle, so of course it's going to cost a little more. I don't think it's unreasonable. Comparing the Vue to the Civic and Prius is apples and oranges. They have nothing in common aside from a hybrid drivetrain--and even those are fundamentally different.

That said, a trip computer would've been a nice addition to even the regular Vue.

[Steel4ring]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

We have one in our HHR, I tested it twice to verify how accurate the onboard computer was, and both times it was 100% the same as my own calculations, down to the tenth of a mpg.

My 2005 Suburban's MPG computer is spot on, right down to the tenth of a mile.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by jwrebholz

The Civic and Prius are small cars. The Vue is an SUV. It's a physically LARGER vehicle, so of course it's going to cost a little more. I don't think it's unreasonable. Comparing the Vue to the Civic and Prius is apples and oranges. They have nothing in common aside from a hybrid drivetrain--and even those are fundamentally different.

That said, a trip computer would've been a nice addition to even the regular Vue.

I should have been clearer. I didn't mean to criticize the Vue for being more expensive than the Prius and Civic hybrid. I agree, it's a much larger vehicle and it's perfectly reasonable to cost more.

I mean to criticize GM for not producing a Prius-sized hybrid first. People who are serious about wanting superior fuel economy are going to buy a fuel efficient compact car, a hybrid sedan, or a diesel sedan. (Or, I suppose, a diesel hybrid sedan. But nobody is selling those yet.) I think if GM wants to make Saturn hybrids, it would have been better to produce an Ion or Aura hybrid before bothering with a Vue hybrid.

[Elk]

So they tested the VUE hybrid and never listed what mpg they got. That’s some good reporting right there.

[K-1]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

I mean to criticize GM for not producing a Prius-sized hybrid first. People who are serious about wanting superior fuel economy are going to buy a fuel efficient compact car, a hybrid sedan, or a diesel sedan. (Or, I suppose, a diesel hybrid sedan. But nobody is selling those yet.) I think if GM wants to make Saturn hybrids, it would have been better to produce an Ion or Aura hybrid before bothering with a Vue hybrid.

That's the back-asswords way to make a hybrid. Why strap a hybrid system to a vehicle that would get 40+ mpg without it? The large cars and SUVs are the ones that actually NEED the mpg boost.

$3,300 more than gas-only Vue
In addition, the Vue Green Line is $3,300 more than a comparable, four-cylinder-powered gas-only Vue.

WRONG-O! Looks like Ann didn't do her research (big surprise there). The VUE GL is actually about $900 more than a comparatively equiped non-GL VUE.

[Elk]

Originally Posted by K-1

That's the back-asswords way to make a hybrid. Why strap a hybrid system to a vehicle that would get 40+ mpg without it? The large cars and SUVs are the ones that actually NEED the mpg boost.

GM doesn’t make anything that gets 40+ mpg. The most fuel efficient vehicle GM makes with an automatic is the Cobalt and it only gets 32 mpg. GM needs to do something because right now they don’t have anything that is competitive with the 40 mpg Civic and the 38 mpg Corolla.