A Proper Comparo: Cadillac CTS vs Jaguar XF

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by TriShield

Two losers fight and neither one wins.

What exactly is there to brag about here?

I fail to see how the CTS is a loser. It's one of the classes' top sellers and has fared well in other comparos.
On the other hand, Jaguars have not set the world on fire.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by eaton53

I fail to see how the CTS is a loser. It's one of the classes' top sellers and has fared well in other comparos.
On the other hand, Jaguars have not set the world on fire.

eaton53,

Cadillac's CTS first generation and second generation are extremely positive for Cadillac in terms of design and sales. But more important in my view is the improvements made with the second generation CTS. This new CTS model could have been very safe in its design, which generally happens when a car brand has success with a style or design. In this case with Cadillac's CTS, Cadillac and its designers pushed the envelope once again and the new CTS is stunning. And shortly the CTS-V and later the CTS Coupe. I am so impressed with Cadillac's future plans for this model. I believe Jaguar's XF and XK will perform the same impact for Jaguar as the XLR and CTS has performed for Cadillac.

JLM

[eaton53]

JLM,
I saw the CTS-V in Chicago and it was amazing.

I know the purists hate to hear this, but IMO the biggest difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 V is the addition of an automatic transmission. The audience for the car will be much wider.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by eaton53

JLM,
I saw the CTS-V in Chicago and it was amazing.

I know the purists hate to hear this, but IMO the biggest difference between the Gen 1 and Gen 2 V is the addition of an automatic transmission. The audience for the car will be much wider.

eaton53,

Yes again I agree with you and an additional feature is MRC (Magnetic Ride Control) of which almost all high end performance luxury performance cars are implementing in some form or another in addition to Cadillac. The new CTS-V incorporates the second generation MCR system. Both the auto transmission and MRC enhance the appeal to performance luxury buyers such as myself. The option at having both a manual and automatic transmission is fantastic with MRC.

I have not test driven the new CTS-V and would suspect that it will be nearly impossible in the first year of production. All I can say is I was very impressed with the specifications and style and design of Cadillac's CTS-V.

JLM

[PAULSTS1]

First of all it is requested that you completely overlook my previous post on this topic of comparison between the Cadillac CTS and the Jaguar XF. This appeal has been made because I have only recently been able to make an up close and personal evaluation of both cars, au natural. The experience was eye-opening, enlightening, and perception enhancing.

First: Cadillac CTS: The modern interpretation of Cadillac’s Sports Luxury car from the perspective of an STS owner is that the cabin is a bit snug. The upright seating position is not the most comfortable I have experienced during my multi vehicle evaluation (kudos in that regard would go to the Volvo S80). I don’t see the CTS winning a lot of praise from traditional Cadillac owners based upon the interior packaging.

Performance of the DI 3.6 V6 is satisfactory, neither as refined or powerful feeling (torque) as from the Northstar V8, but I concede it may be acceptable to owners of Asian or European midsized sedans, or persons of more diminutive stature. There exists perceptible NVH, in the drive train operation, that I am convinced will be eventually ignored by an owner over time.

What impressed me was the styling, and interior materials used, this was the first Cadillac in a long time to excel at the effort to make the interior luxurious. The feel of the switchgear could be improved, but to be fair for a car priced similarly to the Nissan Maxima, it rocks, freshly out. I give it 3 out of 5 possible stars.

The Jaguar XF is the more recent effort in this comparo, it represents a bold departure from the traditional styling mold of Jaguar. The cabin is luxurious and comfortable, and exuded that old fashioned British charm and aroma, in a contempory body. The switchgear was done with high quality materials, and appeared durable. I would not have felt cheated in this cabin as a daily driver.

Performance of the 4.2 normally aspirated V8 was adequate though at 300 Hp, could have used more power (the XF felt quite heavy). I did later discover that Jaguar has plans to replace the 4.2 with a 5.0 special duty engine as a running change shortly. The engine as tested was velvety smooth, and was supremely hushed; any luxury buyer would not find it objectionable.

While I liked the styling, I don’t know if it’s just because it is new and fresh or how the styling will weather over time? Perhaps here is where the previous S Type may provide some advantage, it still looks dignified.

Comparisons: First off is the Price, at about 38000, the CTS is impossible to beat, and definitely is the better buy over the $57,000 XF. The XF does offer more luxury and amenities, but for almost a $20000 premium. That stratospheric statistic removes the XF from favorably comparing with the CTS. I felt the XF is better comparable to the STS, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, and Volvo S80. I rated the XF also 3 stars. One point was deducted for the lofty cost this is what kept the XF from winning a decisive victory over the CTS.

What do you think of this Camparo?

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

First of all it is requested that you completely overlook my previous post on this topic of comparison between the Cadillac CTS and the Jaguar XF. This appeal has been made because I have only recently been able to make an up close and personal evaluation of both cars, au natural. The experience was eye-opening, enlightening, and perception enhancing.

First: Cadillac CTS: The modern interpretation of Cadillac’s Sports Luxury car from the perspective of an STS owner is that the cabin is a bit snug. The upright seating position is not the most comfortable I have experienced during my multi vehicle evaluation (kudos in that regard would go to the Volvo S80). I don’t see the CTS winning a lot of praise from traditional Cadillac owners based upon the interior packaging.

Performance of the DI 3.6 V6 is satisfactory, neither as refined or powerful feeling (torque) as from the Northstar V8, but I concede it may be acceptable to owners of Asian or European midsized sedans, or persons of more diminutive stature. There exists perceptible NVH, in the drive train operation, that I am convinced will be eventually ignored by an owner over time.

What impressed me was the styling, and interior materials used, this was the first Cadillac in a long time to excel at the effort to make the interior luxurious. The feel of the switchgear could be improved, but to be fair for a car priced similarly to the Nissan Maxima, it rocks, freshly out. I give it 3 out of 5 possible stars.

The Jaguar XF is the more recent effort in this comparo, it represents a bold departure from the traditional styling mold of Jaguar. The cabin is luxurious and comfortable, and exuded that old fashioned British charm and aroma, in a contempory body. The switchgear was done with high quality materials, and appeared durable. I would not have felt cheated in this cabin as a daily driver.

Performance of the 4.2 normally aspirated V8 was adequate though at 300 Hp, could have used more power (the XF felt quite heavy). I did later discover that Jaguar has plans to replace the 4.2 with a 5.0 special duty engine as a running change shortly. The engine as tested was velvety smooth, and was supremely hushed; any luxury buyer would not find it objectionable.

While I liked the styling, I don’t know if it’s just because it is new and fresh or how the styling will weather over time? Perhaps here is where the previous S Type may provide some advantage, it still looks dignified.

Comparisons: First off is the Price, at about 38000, the CTS is impossible to beat, and definitely is the better buy over the $57,000 XF. The XF does offer more luxury and amenities, but for almost a $20000 premium. That stratospheric statistic removes the XF from favorably comparing with the CTS. I felt the XF is better comparable to the STS, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, and Volvo S80. I rated the XF also 3 stars. One point was deducted for the lofty cost this is what kept the XF from winning a decisive victory over the CTS.

What do you think of this Camparo?

Greetings PAULSTS1,

I like your review and agree with many of your points. From a comparison perspective, I only compared Cadillac's CTS from a style perspective. The Jaguar XF is featured and rides more in segment with the Cadillac STS /STS-V.

There is so much I appreciate about Cadillac's new CTS from a style and design perspective, that at times it overshadows some of the features I have come to appreciate in Cadillac’s STS.

What impresses me most about Jaguar's XF style and design, it is not retro in the least. I was not a huge fan of the S Type style and design when compared to the new XF. This new design language for Jaguar has been needed for years. In my view, it will transform Jaguar into the modern seductive luxury brand that exemplifies Jaguar's feel and textures of materials.

For my taste, Cadillac and Jaguar have taken the lead in style and design in the segment of performance luxury premium mid size sedan and luxury performance sports car. Cadillac's CTS/CTS-V, STS/STS-V, XLR/XLR-V and Jaguar's XF/XF Supercharge, XK/XKR appeal to me the most today. Other luxury brands have some very engaging designs, such as Audi and BMW, but they simply are not as compelling as Cadillac and Jaguar to my eyes.

Cadillac remains my first preference for luxury car purchase, but clearly I now have an alternate in Jaguar.

JLM

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

The Jaguar XF is the more recent effort in this comparo, it represents a bold departure from the traditional styling mold of Jaguar. The cabin is luxurious and comfortable, and exuded that old fashioned British charm and aroma, in a contempory body. The switchgear was done with high quality materials, and appeared durable. I would not have felt cheated in this cabin as a daily driver.

Performance of the 4.2 normally aspirated V8 was adequate though at 300 Hp, could have used more power (the XF felt quite heavy). I did later discover that Jaguar has plans to replace the 4.2 with a 5.0 special duty engine as a running change shortly. The engine as tested was velvety smooth, and was supremely hushed; any luxury buyer would not find it objectionable.

While I liked the styling, I don’t know if it’s just because it is new and fresh or how the styling will weather over time? Perhaps here is where the previous S Type may provide some advantage, it still looks dignified.

Comparisons: First off is the Price, at about 38000, the CTS is impossible to beat, and definitely is the better buy over the $57,000 XF. The XF does offer more luxury and amenities, but for almost a $20000 premium. That stratospheric statistic removes the XF from favorably comparing with the CTS. I felt the XF is better comparable to the STS, Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, and Volvo S80. I rated the XF also 3 stars. One point was deducted for the lofty cost this is what kept the XF from winning a decisive victory over the CTS.

Oh Paul Paul Paul....
I spent the afternoon at the Jaguar Dealership in San Francisco. And after a good 40 minute test drive among the twists and turns and a really blind Buick Park Avenue driver darting out of her garage (XF has a loud horn).... I can say the XF is more than a match for CTS. And I must re-iterate... CTS just isn't in this class of vehicle!!!

Yes, the V8 is supremely hushed, and there's just enough growl to let you know the cat can run when needed. I started in Sport Mode when it was my turn to drive. I simply wasn't ready for the amount of power that was at my command. The numbers might say 300HP... but it feels like 380HP. That's the truth.
The brakes will haul the car down 60-0 in short order. You can feel it when you touch it.

Oh.. and another thing... the Bowers-Wilkins audio system. I've never experienced an audio system with an audio stage quite like this in a car!!! I hold a great deal of respect for the Lexus Mark-Levinson system. I feel the STS Bose system is a tad better than the M-L system. And the B&O system in the Audi is quite impressive as well. But these systems don't hold a candle to the B-W system in the XF!!!!!!!!!

Is the XF worth $20,000 over a fully loaded CTS?? ABSO-FRIGGIN-LUTELY!!!!
Then again, the CTS isn't squarely competitive in this market segment as of this date!! And it is sorely lacking some basics that are a necessity in this segment. Cadillac has a lot of work to do.
There is no doubt in my mind that CTS needs the full luxury of the STS without STS's missteps in order to be competitive here.

Plus the service and attention I got at British Motors of SF was heads and shoulders and simply light years better than anything I've gotten from these Chevy-Cadillac combo dealerships.

I will post a more detailed review later.
As much as it pains me to leave GM, after a long history with them, I have found my next car purchase. And it isn't the Cadillac I've always dreamed of owning.

Jaguar has got a BIG winner here.

[PAULSTS1]

Weekend Salutations Mgescuro:

I did try to be fair in my comparison post. I never felt the CTS and the XF were true competitors. Because of the features, amenities, powerplant choices, the XF is a more highly evolved entity. I have assigned almost "life like" qualities to it as it conveys, the personality that Cadillacs of old used to have.

Mentioning the engine response please remember I own 2 Northstar powered STS models the tester XF was brand new and not yet "broken in." Also the news that Jaguar will be replacing the 4.2 V8 for a larger displacement engine (5.0 SD) does sorta indicate the factory believes a tweak might be necessary to bolster the "feline image." My test route was virtual straightaways, on good streets, I would have been interested to try it out on cobblestones, and potholes.

The only area I failed to test was the audio system, mainly because I seem to use mine for Talk Radio. When I have an occassional passenger, they always criticize me for not using the audio system to play music. I was out with a model whom happened to be carrying a new CD in her purse, She asked me to play rhe CD on my Bose systemt. When I did , she almost went into a spontaneous orgasm when the music queued up. One of my friends has the Mark Levinson system in his Lexus and classical music sounds great, however not as good as the 5.1 Dolby surround in my newer STS, though.

What I may have failed to mention is that I too loved the Jaguar XF, however because my personal driving has become rather limited these days, I can afford to wait out the market, and may do so until Fall.

In your more detailed review, please elaborate on your color vs interior palet choices. I found that I gravitate towards the Blues, either Midnight or custom order Azure Blue.

I am waiting for your full review.




.

[asrapid]

When new 5.0 l v8 comes (i hope it will have more then 380 hp because some rivals already have more power than this) will V8 4.2 l be retired?. I mean Jaguar then will have v8 with 380+ hp and v6 with 240 hp which is not enough and there is too much gap between it.Is there any plans for upgrading V6.
Cadillac should really offer engine with 400+HP in their CTS lineup (something below V).

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by asrapid

When new 5.0 l v8 comes (i hope it will have more then 380 hp because some rivals already have more power than this) will V8 4.2 l be retired?. I mean Jaguar then will have v8 with 380+ hp and v6 with 240 hp which is not enough and there is too much gap between it.Is there any plans for upgrading V6.
Cadillac should really offer engine with 400+HP in their CTS lineup (something below V).

Hi Asrapid:

The engine equation hasn't been settled and communicated to the press as yet. It was only my speculation that Jaguar was concerned that at the $55K Plus level their car needed more power.

At this point with the fact that Jaguar is leaving FORD's hands and will be going to TATA Heavy Industries, how much of the future enhancements are "set in stone?" Personally I agree with your concern that 380 is easily attainable by various brands of lesser caliber, and that Jaguar releasing it's first all new car in a decade should put its best foot forward (engine).

The CTS is another issue given that it has been well received Cadillac needs to turn it's attention to releasing the other variants promised. Using the LS6 engine seems to work for the V model. I am concerned that the CTS is not fully equipped to fall into the mainstream Cadillac vacuum. The DTS and STS must be replaced and soon. Cadillac cannot afford to stagnate the brand as the personal sized CTS won't woo enough of the big dollar traditional buyers to really make the division highly profitable. I get concerned when a Company doesn't follow its marketing plan, and goes off on a tangent.

With the CAFE and fuel issues in the USA, the only reason to change a V8 engine is if one can be introduced that is better breathing, and more fuel efficient, I sincerely hope this is Jaguars plan.

BTW; if you obtain more information on Jaguars 5.0 replacement engine, please let it be known, there are others considering the XF for purchase.

Thanks,

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Greetings PAULSTS1,

I like your review and agree with many of your points. From a comparison perspective, I only compared Cadillac's CTS from a style perspective. The Jaguar XF is featured and rides more in segment with the Cadillac STS /STS-V.

There is so much I appreciate about Cadillac's new CTS from a style and design perspective, that at times it overshadows some of the features I have come to appreciate in Cadillac’s STS.

What impresses me most about Jaguar's XF style and design, it is not retro in the least. I was not a huge fan of the S Type style and design when compared to the new XF. This new design language for Jaguar has been needed for years. In my view, it will transform Jaguar into the modern seductive luxury brand that exemplifies Jaguar's feel and textures of materials.

For my taste, Cadillac and Jaguar have taken the lead in style and design in the segment of performance luxury premium mid size sedan and luxury performance sports car. Cadillac's CTS/CTS-V, STS/STS-V, XLR/XLR-V and Jaguar's XF/XF Supercharge, XK/XKR appeal to me the most today. Other luxury brands have some very engaging designs, such as Audi and BMW, but they simply are not as compelling as Cadillac and Jaguar to my eyes.

Cadillac remains my first preference for luxury car purchase, but clearly I now have an alternate in Jaguar.

JLM

Weekend Salutations JLM:
In defense of the Traditional styling of the Jaguar S Type I still like it. It reminds me of one of my favorite college professors, she had a 1962 Jaguar Mark II that she meticulously maintained and when on summer holidays, she would often drive it from Alaska to Terra Del Fuego (for those geographically challenged from the upper most point of North America, to the end of South America (on the Brazilian coast). She loved that car. The interior of the car was maroon leather and white exterior, it had wire spoked wheels. Even though at that time (1970) the car was already almost a decade old it was dignified.
While I am sure by now that you realize I am a Cadillac enthusiast, I am also becoming a nuevo automotive connoisseur, at least in my mind.
Last evening I was privy to a sneak peak of the 2009 Mercedes Benz CLS, and let me assure all, MB isn’t sitting down! For Cadillac to stay in the fight, they will have to really put on the boxing gloves, and be ready for battle.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

The CTS is another issue given that it has been well received Cadillac needs to turn it's attention to releasing the other variants promised. Using the LS6 engine seems to work for the V model. I am concerned that the CTS is not fully equipped to fall into the mainstream Cadillac vacuum. The DTS and STS must be replaced and soon. Cadillac cannot afford to stagnate the brand as the personal sized CTS won't woo enough of the big dollar traditional buyers to really make the division highly profitable. I get concerned when a Company doesn't follow its marketing plan, and goes off on a tangent.

The biggest concern is the fact that Cadillac's line up is in transition again.

I hope Cadillac realizes that they are competing in what is probably the most cutthroat segment of the industry. Customers are far more demanding from their vehicles and customer experience. And thus far, Cadillac has been consistently hit and miss. This is a very dynamic segment, and stagnation spells death.

And if the CLS is as striking as you say it is.... Cadillac will have work to do. And Cadillac's continual "preview" of their future designs, while being slow to market, doesn't do them any favors. I would much prefer to see spyshots of some "unknown vehicle," and the Cadillac to hit the auto show circuit... and then release that fall.

Cadillac really hasn't been on par with Jaguar for prestige. Cadillac is working on restoring its image, but their strategy is meeting with mixed results, and I find myself not agreeing with their product strategy.
Ford loused up Jaguar's product strategy, but before they were sold, Ford managed to fix the fundamental problems that had plagued Jaguar. I firmly believe Jaguar is poised to storm the luxury world. With a new XJ, along with the XF, it can reassert itself as the "5th option" -- over Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and Lexus.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Weekend Salutations JLM:
In defense of the Traditional styling of the Jaguar S Type I still like it. It reminds me of one of my favorite college professors, she had a 1962 Jaguar Mark II that she meticulously maintained and when on summer holidays, she would often drive it from Alaska to Terra Del Fuego (for those geographically challenged from the upper most point of North America, to the end of South America (on the Brazilian coast). She loved that car. The interior of the car was maroon leather and white exterior, it had wire spoked wheels. Even though at that time (1970) the car was already almost a decade old it was dignified.
While I am sure by now that you realize I am a Cadillac enthusiast, I am also becoming a nuevo automotive connoisseur, at least in my mind.
Last evening I was privy to a sneak peak of the 2009 Mercedes Benz CLS, and let me assure all, MB isn’t sitting down! For Cadillac to stay in the fight, they will have to really put on the boxing gloves, and be ready for battle.

Hi PAULSTS1,

Yes, Mercedes-Benz's CLS is one of the bright spots from a style and design in my view. However, the refreshed 2009 CLS is very mild in its updates from a style and design perspective when compared to its current model. I do not think is bad thing at all considering how much I enjoy the current design. The CLS 55 AMG was my # 2 high performance sedan with BMW M5 as my third positioned with Cadillac's STS-V remaining my #1 preference. However now I have dropped both BMW's M5 and Mercedes-Benz's CLS 63 AMG from my purchase list and both were replaced by Jaguar’s XF Supercharged and it is all due to new style and design of Jaguar, it is that powerful in my opinion.

In my case, there is an added advantage to my enjoyment of Cadillac and Jaguar's stellar design language, they both offer luxury brand models that meet my requirements Cadillac's STS/STS-V,XLR/XLR-V and Jaguar's XF/XF Supercharged, XK/XKR. That is my current problem with Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus, Audi, Infiniti and Acura. I find some models within their lineup that are somewhat appealing, but the overall style and design theme fall far short of Cadillac and Jaguar in my view.

Jaguar's retro design language has an appeal for the classic Jaguar look and feel and that is a beautiful design, I just prefer the new design language so much more. There are other design themes that meet the level of appeal to me as Cadillac and Jaguar and they are, Aston Martin and Lamborghini. Cadillac, Jaguar, Aston Martin and Lamborghini in that order are my gold standard for style and design. All other luxury or exotic brands simply have a model here and there that are attractive to me. Cadillac is first in terms of style and design today and offers the most complete line of products of all of the brands that meet my requirements today.

JLM