HHR SS Harbinger of CAFE-Driven Market

[stevecmh]

Originally Posted by johnriley

Might resemble the HHR, but I'm guessing it would be lighter.

yeah but being lighter is going to cost ALOT

[EldoFan]

Bob.......SHUT THE **** UP ALREADY!

[poncho1982]

Originally Posted by racy

Lutz needs to shut his mouth. His CAFE blathering is getting old, and frankly embarrassing.

Oh really?

Hmmmm...last I checked, this was the USA, and we can say whatever we want.

Granted, he has a corporation behind him, but he is not saying anything that ALOT of us haven't thought.

I say, good for him, and GM.

The Government just screwed us all with this CAFE.

[forsbach427]

if they want to get 35mpg or better put a 6th gear in it for manual and auto trannys and offer more diesel's to get the average mpg up.

[jzEllis]

Originally Posted by jkennedy293

The V8 in cars will be non-existent in American cars.

how is this any different from now? v8s have not been a mainstream engine in American cars for over 20 years...so whats new? for the record, I'm sure there will be v8 powered performance cars in the next twenty years too. for the life of me i just can't get my head around the assumption that V8s won't keep up with the latest state of the art tech that allows smaller displacement engines to be so efficient. even now we have 6.0+ liter displacement engines that equal engines not even half their size in fuel economy AND have 400+ hp.

if anything, i see a future with 500-600hp 4-6L v8s that get 35+ mpg!

it's not the size or even the cylinder arrangement of the engine thats at fault, it's the fact that even the smallest cars are fat pigs when it comes to weight management.

[jkennedy293]

Originally Posted by davidlane

Perhaps an injection of fact is in order. The following is a quote from an article published in Winding Road:

Presently, there are two vehicles for sale that have a 2008 EPA combined mileage rating of 35 mpg or better. Not surprisingly, both are relatively small in size and utilize hybrid propulsion systems.

Within the EPA’s small car class, the lone victor is the Honda Civic Hybrid, clocking in with a 42 mpg combined rating. The 110-hp 1.4-liter I-4, coupled to a 20-hp electric motor, helps the Civic return nearly 40 mpg in the city, 45 on the highway.

Moving up one rung to the family sedan category, the only winner is the ubiquitous Toyota Prius, carrying a 46 mpg combined average. The Prius, powered by infinitely-variable mixtures of its 76-hp, 1.5-liter I-4 and 67-hp electric mill, averages 48 mpg around town and 45 on the freeway.

Runners-up include hybrid versions of Nissan’s Altima and the Toyota Camry. Both score a combined rating of 34 mpg, and Ford’s trio of compact hybrid SUVs (Escape, Mazda Tribute and Mercury Mariner) which achieve the same average. With further refinement (e.g. elimination of excess mass), any could perhaps reach that magic 35 number. The same could be said for other small cars, including the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris and the Mini Cooper, all of which have combined ratings between 31 and 32 mpg.

I submit a fleet of these type vehicles bears no resemblance to today's fleet and these standards also apply to "light trucks."

http://news.windingroad.com/car-buyi...cafe-standard/

The author of this article is ignorant of the difference between CAFE and EPA. They say only two cars get over 35mpg based on '08 EPA standards, but these standards have absolutely nothing to do with the way CAFE is figured. This is not all that uncommon, as most people don't realize there are still multiple ways to test a cars fuel efficiency.

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by davidlane

Perhaps an injection of fact is in order. The following is a quote from an article published in Winding Road:

Presently, there are two vehicles for sale that have a 2008 EPA combined mileage rating of 35 mpg or better. Not surprisingly, both are relatively small in size and utilize hybrid propulsion systems.

Within the EPA’s small car class, the lone victor is the Honda Civic Hybrid, clocking in with a 42 mpg combined rating. The 110-hp 1.4-liter I-4, coupled to a 20-hp electric motor, helps the Civic return nearly 40 mpg in the city, 45 on the highway.

Moving up one rung to the family sedan category, the only winner is the ubiquitous Toyota Prius, carrying a 46 mpg combined average. The Prius, powered by infinitely-variable mixtures of its 76-hp, 1.5-liter I-4 and 67-hp electric mill, averages 48 mpg around town and 45 on the freeway.

Runners-up include hybrid versions of Nissan’s Altima and the Toyota Camry. Both score a combined rating of 34 mpg, and Ford’s trio of compact hybrid SUVs (Escape, Mazda Tribute and Mercury Mariner) which achieve the same average. With further refinement (e.g. elimination of excess mass), any could perhaps reach that magic 35 number. The same could be said for other small cars, including the Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris and the Mini Cooper, all of which have combined ratings between 31 and 32 mpg.

I submit a fleet of these type vehicles bears no resemblance to today's fleet and these standards also apply to "light trucks."

http://news.windingroad.com/car-buyi...cafe-standard/

For god's sake, don't look for an injection of facts from Winding Road.

I can't believe they are just going to fueleconomy.gov and using those like that's what will go into the CAFE standards. For instance, the current Cobalt 2.2L 5-speed pretty much meets the 35 mpg standard. Since CAFE standards are judged by unadjusted EPA fuel economy generated by the 1975 test procedures, you have to take the 2007 window sticker numbers (since the procedures were changed for 2008), 25/34, and add in the 10% city/22% highway that was taken out of the window sticker numbers in 1984. This gives us 27.78 city/43.59 highway. Combining these in the 55/45 ratio, gives 34.88 mpg average.

It's pathetic that Winding Road doesn't seem to have a clue how this is calculated, yet they publish their stories for all to read.

Originally Posted by http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/cafe/legistlation.htm#

c) Testing and calculation procedures.--The Administrator shall measure fuel economy for each model and calculate average fuel economy for a manufacturer under testing and calculation procedures prescribed by the Administrator. However, except under section 32908 of this title, the Administrator shall use the same procedures for passenger automobiles the Administrator used for model year 1975 (weighted 55 percent urban cycle and 45 percent highway cycle), or procedures that give comparable results. A measurement of fuel economy or a calculation of average fuel economy (except under section 32908) shall be rounded off to the nearest .1 of a mile a gallon. The Administrator shall decide on the quantity of other fuel that is equivalent to one gallon of gasoline. To the extent practicable, fuel economy tests shall be carried out with emissions tests under section 206 of the Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. 7525).

I'm not suggesting that any of this is going to be easy or cheap, or that the automotive landscape won't look very different in 10 years, but it's best if we truly know what we are up against.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Originally Posted by jzEllis

how is this any different from now? v8s have not been a mainstream engine in American cars for over 20 years...so whats new? for the record, I'm sure there will be v8 powered performance cars in the next twenty years too. for the life of me i just can't get my head around the assumption that V8s won't keep up with the latest state of the art tech that allows smaller displacement engines to be so efficient. even now we have 6.0+ liter displacement engines that equal engines not even half their size in fuel economy AND have 400+ hp.

if anything, i see a future with 500-600hp 4-6L v8s that get 35+ mpg!

it's not the size or even the cylinder arrangement of the engine thats at fault, it's the fact that even the smallest cars are fat pigs when it comes to weight management.

I don't know if we'll get to that point... we are hitting diminishing returns in engine efficiency. But there is still a long way to go 500 hp V8 that gets 30 MPG in a Vette maybe

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by poncho1982

The Government just screwed us all with this CAFE.

Yeah, the government may be screwing us with CAFE, but Putz-o here is screwing us all in the name of selling more of his precious cash cow pickups/SUV's.........to him, if it means little to no RWD (other than what we know is coming), so be it!!

Heaven forbid, I think this idiot is starting to look like Roger Smith.......

[FoMoCo Fan]

Forget CAFE. It's going to be 40+MPG once CA gets their way with CO2 emissions regulations.

[TimR]

Originally Posted by kamandor

My parents bought a 2006 PT Cruiser in October and I was quite bothered that they did not take a look at the Chevy HHR. In combined driving we are averaging 13.5L/100km in the PT Cruiser, which is absolutely atrocious.

Wow thats bad!!! I'm averaging 12.5L/100km in my full size GMC RCSB 5.3L with mostly in town driving...

[FenwickHockey65]

I hate CAFE. So much.

[Parkwood60]

To quote directly from the NHTSA's web site:

"Do NHTSA’s CAFE values differ from EPA’s fuel economy data?

Three different sets of fuel economy values- NHTSA’s CAFE values, EPA’s unadjusted dynamometer values, and EPA’s adjusted on-road values exist. NHTSA’s CAFE values are used to determine manufacturers’ compliance with the applicable average fuel economy standards and to develop its annual report, the Automotive Fuel Economy Program Annual Update. The EPA’s unadjusted dynamometer values are calculated from the emissions generated during the testing using a carbon balance equation. EPA knows the amount of carbon in the fuel, so by measuring the carbon compounds expelled in the exhaust they can calculate the fuel economy. EPA’s adjusted on-road values are those values listed in the Fuel Economy Guide and on new vehicle labels, adjusted to account for the in-use shortfall of EPA dynamometer test values."

Does anyone know whee you can easily look up the fuel economy numbers the NHTSA is using, without doing the little math problem used earlier?

[04bonnie]

Going out on a huge limb here but: Has anyone thought about what NASCAR will do with the new CAFE regs.? They sure burn a lot of gas, will there be some sort of regulation on that sport?

They (government) are punishing the general buying public, so just wondering what else they will do

[igotzzoom]

Why not a nice turbodiesel like the one BMW is offering (201 hp and 295 lb/ft.) 40+ mpg? Maybe it doesn't fit the "traditional" SS mold, but as long as it can deliver the goods, I'm willing to give it a chance.