Driving Northwest: The Pontiac Vibe's secret

[Gary Valente]

Why is Pontiac or GM for that matter, screwing around with Toyota for the Vibe in the first place? Note to management: Take the HHR, design a DECENT looking modern body for it, drop in the Solstice GXP powertrain, add AWD, Brembos and Recaros. Presto! An American WRX! Now you're talking!

[crooner214]

Originally Posted by 91 s-10baja

Almost live is still airing (albeit reruns) every week here after SNL
Also, you should see Jean Enerson in HD, YIKES

No kidding!

[bobojay]

Just goes to show how ill informed the American consumer is. You can sell them anything just because it's been printed in the newspaper or magazines.
That makes it correct....

[LAChevy24]

worst kept secret? i didnt know that they were trying to keep it secret. and this just shows that most of american doesnt know crap about cars. and i have seen a few vibes on the road, they are alot better looking in person. i have seen the new corolla, ugly, but not one matrix

[mrbig]

Pictures do the Vibe no justice. It actually looks pretty nice in person.

[GMusa]

Originally Posted by 91 s-10baja

See, that is the difference between us enthusiasts and ............. regulars.

Thats exactly what i was gonna say.

[GMusa]

Originally Posted by Gary Valente

Why is Pontiac or GM for that matter, screwing around with Toyota for the Vibe in the first place? Note to management: Take the HHR, design a DECENT looking modern body for it, drop in the Solstice GXP powertrain, add AWD, Brembos and Recaros. Presto! An American WRX! Now you're talking!

I kinda agree.. There is no reason why GM cant do the Vibe on their one. Cobalt platform with the more powerful engine chocies from GM. But I would MUCH rather see a WRX STi/Evo fighter in the next-gen G6 Sedan GXP - with Saabs XWD.

[member12]

Pontiac Vibe: Toyota mediocrity held back by a Pontiac badge.

Same thing with the G6..A nice Chevrolet when it came out, but the brand name and lack of smarter features and updates combined with the Pontiac badge really hurt it.

Pontiac raises images of muscle cars, mullets, and crummy re-badged (heavily cladded) Chevrolets. It goes totally against the "fuel efficiency" image that Pontiac should be.

The reality is that Saturn is better at being sporty than Pontiac is and it's probably going to be better at being upscale than Buick will be. I honestly believe that with better dealer access, Saturn would be the 2nd best selling brand easily. It already has an arguably better Vibe in the Astra. The Aura is a bit better than the G6, the Vue is a great product that registers well with consumers despite the weight problem and lack of dealers. The Sky IS the Solsice.

Pontiac needs some kind of clear focus. I really don't know what they are trying to be now. Should they flood the lineup with cars like the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Scion TC, and the Solstice or should they offer simply sporty versions of cars that are or should be Chevrolets or Buicks? (Pontiac G6, G8, and G8 ST).

The Vibe is a good example of a decent product that follows the Mitsubishi/Scion school of thought. I don't see it registering with may people since it's not terribly fuel efficient, though it does look better than the Matrix.



Uncertain times....not sure what to think about Pontiac. Cars like the Vibe make Pontiac seem less focused. The only brands that seem to stick to their intendend marketing segment is Chevrolet, Hummer, and to a lesser extent, Cadillac. Saturn is staring to move towards the Acura/VW/Audi segment but I am sure GM will change plans 10 times this week alone...which I think leaves Pontiac to go against girly sporty products and Buick to fight Mercury, Lincoln, and lower end Lexuses.

GM's brand focus changes faster than they can put new products on the market. It's in a perpetual state of chaos.

[johnnyl321]

Originally Posted by ByTheLake

Perception is reality, however. GM must wrestle with this every day.

I'm wondering if the perception issue affects the resale value? Does a Matrix hold more value after 5 years than a Vibe?

I'm not sure. I work at a Pontiac store. Those Vibes do get a good trade in. Here's an example from last year. We had a lady with an 03 Vibe with 50k on it. Automatic trans, power windows and locks and a sunroof and fairly clean. She was given $9000 in actual cash value for the car!! Take this salesmans word for it, I've been selling GM products for a long time now. This car stickered new at $18,000 and after 5 years it retained half its value. A Grand Am of same year and mileage would be worth $6000 and that would have had a higher MSRP.
You're dead on with your quote that Perception is Reality. Our manager is always harping that we need to change peoples perspectives of GM one customer at a time. That's getting harder and harder as more people form their perceptions on what they read online. For the most part, they don't bother even visiting a GM store....they just go straight to the Honda and Toyota store and plunk down their hard earned cash.
It's definitely going to be interesting in seeing what happens in the next 5 years. I was speaking with a GM service manager who said that in 2007, there were over 100 GM dealer closures in the Northeast part of the USA (from Maine to the south end of Virginia) and this year there will be 200 more closing. That number alone is 25% of Toyotas total dealership base!!! The GM, Ford and Chrysler dealerbase is simply too much for the diminishing demand. I am glad to see that Toyota is building plants over here, and I notice they're NOT being built in Michigan, but rather in the south. I guess there aren't as many union issues to deal with there.
Ok...I'll get off my soapbox now.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by logansowner

I think it's safe to say...the general public dun be unedumacated.

Actually it illustrates the success of what I refer to as Toyota's Spin and Misinformation network.

Also their above ground programs - Public Relations and Brand perception management etc.

Don't forget Toyota is the pioneer of the advertorial - which is just a fancy name for - 'here, I'll do business with you and or pay you to write an advertising piece - as long as you make it appear to the public as regular 'journalism'.

From both, the public (for decades) has been pounded full of incomplete and misleading information concerning Toyota - much like they have concerning things like the so called ( misnamed) 'Free Trade' issue.

The negative side of things is not presented and the positive gets spun up.

Then, the exact opposite is done concerning GM, Ford, and Chrysler - and the European makes as well.

Net result is really no surprise.

The blitz of BS from Mr T is funded thru the Yen subsidy - that's why Toyota can spend the 'extra' money behind all this.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by logansowner

Can't get it to load.

Lemme guess it sucks, has a bad interior and gas mileage is horrible, until it it revealed it's a Toyota, and then they were just joking?

*Never mind, loads in FF. Nice to see the testers being honest, but it makes me mad to see how god damn stupid every day people are. Regardless of who makes it, when you see a vehicle, you either like it or you don't. I wouldn't buy a Pontiac, but I'll buy the Japanese version? WTF?

I think it's safe to say...the general public dun be unedumacated.

Unfortunately, these people make up the majority. These are the people that GM, and Ford and Chrysler for that matter, have an uphill battle appealing to. At this lower end of the market, people buy on practicality, fuel efficiency, and reliability, and for many auto consumers, these are exclusive to Japanese cars. American cars seem to be more popular for style and image, but mostly the more expensive models.

Perhaps GM should tout the German/Korean engineering of their smaller cars to sell them to these particular consumers.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by LAChevy24

worst kept secret? i didnt know that they were trying to keep it secret. and this just shows that most of american doesnt know crap about cars. and i have seen a few vibes on the road, they are alot better looking in person. i have seen the new corolla, ugly, but not one matrix

And the job of the US automakers (and foreign ones) is to build and sell cars to people who don't know, and don't care, about cars, an appliance you don't have to think about.

[spidge]

Originally Posted by Gary Valente

Why is Pontiac or GM for that matter, screwing around with Toyota for the Vibe in the first place? Note to management: Take the HHR, design a DECENT looking modern body for it, drop in the Solstice GXP powertrain, add AWD, Brembos and Recaros. Presto! An American WRX! Now you're talking!

Sounds like a plan!

[Bravada]

It goes totally against the "fuel efficiency" image that Pontiac should be.

Why, of all brands, should Pontiac's image be about "fuel efficiency"?

The reality is that Saturn is better at being sporty than Pontiac is and it's probably going to be better at being upscale than Buick will be.

Pardon?

I honestly believe that with better dealer access, Saturn would be the 2nd best selling brand easily.

This is pure speculation, IMHO. Toyota has fewfold less dealerships in the US than GM and manages to get more retail sales. Moreover, let us compare apples to apples and check Mazda. But for a few fringe models (compact minivan, fossil pickup truck), their NA lineup is comparable to Saturn's, even if their imported compact is vastly more appealing to the American customer. How many dealerships do Mazda and Saturn have and how much does each sell p.a.?

It already has an arguably better Vibe in the Astra.

Fasho - let's try to pack all he stuff you can put in the Vibe in the 3-door Astra, preferably the universally-available AWD version...

The Aura is a bit better than the G6, the Vue is a great product that registers well with consumers despite the weight problem and lack of dealers.

The Aura is leaps and bounds better than the G6 - for one, it has an interior!!! The VUE, actually, is at the centre of the Saturn brand, and it is of course both a better Pontiac than Pontiacs and a better Buick than Buicks... COME ON!

Pontiac needs some kind of clear focus. I really don't know what they are trying to be now. Should they flood the lineup with cars like the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Scion TC, and the Solstice or should they offer simply sporty versions of cars that are or should be Chevrolets or Buicks? (Pontiac G6, G8, and G8 ST).

Pontiac does need a clear focus, for sure. The G8 is an example - it should NOT be either a Chevrolet or Buick - it is a perfect Pontiac. Let Chevrolet stick to bread and butter, even if it gladly had swallowed "performance" too. You can't be Fiat and Alfa Romeo in one and, let's face it, Chevrolet hasn't even got the emotion or styling to be Fiat. Not to mention serious small cars.

Yes, Pontiac could surely use something like the Scion tC or Eclipse in lieu of the G5, and the G6 is better served as the Aura or Malibu. The coupe and convertible could've stayed on the SWB though, which would've allowed them to be lighter, nimbler and better-looking.

The Vibe is a good example of a decent product that follows the Mitsubishi/Scion school of thought. I don't see it registering with may people since it's not terribly fuel efficient, though it does look better than the Matrix

The "Scion school of thought" is not a bad path to follow for Pontiac, given that they have the lowest average customer age of North American GM brands, IIRC. The fact that the Vibe is not terribly fuel-efficient is just an engineering fault on GM/Toyota's side, doesn't render the whole model useless. The VUE is a gas hog too, but what gives?

I also prefer the Matrix to the anonymous, old-looking Vibe, and I personally believe the Matrix looks more like a Pontiac and Vibe like a Toyota, but that's jusy me.

Cars like the Vibe make Pontiac seem less focused. The only brands that seem to stick to their intendend marketing segment is Chevrolet, Hummer, and to a lesser extent, Cadillac.

It depends on what you want Pontiac to be focused on. As concerns Chevrolet, they are still all over the place, and Cadillac is straying from the core business into competing with SAAB (BLS, BRX/SRX).

[oct1]

This only goes to prove what we have been saying here all along. There is a public hysteria around Honda and Toyota. What nobody mentioned is that he said it was Toyota and opinions changed but everyone failed to see a Toyota plant can make a car with loose fabric, flimsy plastic and all. And the guy even mentions, just like the Corolla. So much for the quality myth. Another very good point the guy says is that people really need to do their research as all cars have good quality these days. But these news people are not heard.