Cobalt's Radioactive Isotope

[THE_SMURF]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

The problem is...without an automatic transmission (even if it requires a detuned engine like the HHR SS), how many people will actually go out of their way to even check it out at the dealership, let alone test drive one to notice the new seats, the suspension tweaks...etc?

The Automatic will fit, GM really needs to offer one in this package. They can throw a bone to the "A sports car should only come with a manual transmission" crowd by having the manual have a few more Horsepower, but if this car is really so drivable and sporty and balanced feel...let more consumers see that.

The point is that the people who will want one of these usually want to shift their own gears

[mjd1001]

Originally Posted by THE_SMURF

The point is that the people who will want one of these usually want to shift their own gears

I totally disagree. In the late 90's and early 2000's, you could have said people who want a Z28 or Trans Am would want to shift gears...those who want automatics are more likely to get the V6 models or just not get that kind of car...yet Automatic LS1 and LT1's drastically ousold manual models, even with the disadvantage of being 4 speeds compared to the manual 6 speeds.

The current HHR SS's I see on the lots are mostly automatics (and I have seen a few sold in my area).

The same argument applies to the Corvette as does the F-bodies I made above.

The only argument this doesn't apply to is the import tuners, but there is a very good reason for this...cars like the Civic, the old Celica GTS's, etc, just about HAD to have a manual for their sporty model..because the engines put in there had to be revved so high, a 4 speed auto (which was just about all that was available at the onset of the 4 cylinder tuner popularity rise) wouldn't work. But even now that is reversing. The truly sport compact models by the imports are going to automatic, or manumatic type transmissions. If the engine has the torque for it..or if more gears are offered in an automatic, automatics work just as well...and in some cases better than manuals....and now that those things are avaialbe for sporty 4 cylinder compacts, other manufacturers HAVE moved toward offering them. It has nothing to do with "people who want that type of car want to shift gears"...that was just the easy explanation for it. Here are just some examples...and this list is growing:

-New Suburu WRX, 4 speed automatic offered (the engine now has the torque for it)
-New Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, 6 speed dual clutch automatic (engine with about 200lbs/ft torque)
-New Mitsubishi eclipse, 5 speed auto much more popular in the automatic than the manual is in terms of sales
-Mini Cooper S, 6 speed auto available
-New 2009 Corrola and matrix XRS, 5 speed auto avaialable
-Volkswagon GTI, Clutchless manual with auto mode available

it is mostly the domestic brands that are once again late to the game bringing automatics to their small, sporty cars...the imports have taken the lead in this area. Many of the cars listed above have the automatic version outsell the manual version. It seems that GM is also holding onto that notion of "those who want this car will want to shift gears themself", while some of their competitors are mating automatics or cluthless manuals to their under $30,000 (and sometimes even between $20-$25k) compact cars and selling them.

I would be willing to bet..that if an automatic were offered in a couple and sedan Cobalt SS, that in terms of sales it would match or exceed the manual versions. The people who would buy the automatics may not be lurking on these (or other) message forums on the web...but history has shown us in the examples above...you get sales from automatics...ESPECIALLY if you give people a sporty car without a huge drop in fuel economy.
Sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out.

[HoosierRon]

People who would buy an automatic 4 cylinder turbocharged car that goes 160 mph and 0-60 in 5.7 seconds obviously are mentally impaired and should not be driving.

[Sparta]

Originally Posted by K Dawg ONE

Give me a 4-door GXP G5 (id even settle for a 4-door SS Cobalt) and id have my new daily driver.
IMO, GM is missing the boat with guys in their mid 20's who started families young but still want a bit of a 'tuner' car. Insurance is still a tad high on a coupe for anyone under 25 (not to mention the need for easy back-seat access for child seats, etc). GM hit the nail on the head with the ION redline Quad Coupe.
I think not having a FI 4 door causes some buyers to look at SRT4, Mazdaspeed3, EVO's, WRX's and GOLFs...

...give me a damn Turbo sedan please Bob!

The 4-door is coming later this year

[Al465]

Originally Posted by jkennedy293

I don't know why everyone seems to keep ragging on GM for not putting a slush box in the SS. You can't get one in the MS3, but no one jumps down Mazda's throat.

Because the Japanese are immune to criticism. If only editorials could be a little more patriotic like the Japanese people are to their country, maybe the Americans would sell more cars in this country.

[DuSpinnst]

Needs new HVAC controls....

NOW.

[CobaltSScrazy]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Needs new HVAC controls....

NOW.

but GM only has the HHR ones which are 100X times nicer, but can't use them in the Cobalt even though they're on the exact same platform.

Sounds like another STS can't use china interior BS excuse on the way to me

CobaltSS

[TJ95GAGT]

I would buy one with an automatic, I'd probably have one of the supercharged models if it came with auto. Call me a pansi, girl, whatever you want but why would I want to row my gears mostly driving to and from work? Sure if I was track goer I would want a manual but I'm not and I cannot possibly be alone. Then why buy an SS? Because I want a sportier car with more power than the non SS Cobalt. Instead I move up to a mid size coupe with a V6 when I would be just as happy with an Cobalt SS Automatic. Mazda lost my fiancee's(and I) interest in a MS3 for the same reason. Such is life, we can take our money to numerous amounts of dealers/private sellers to buy what we want.

[Cadillac Nick]

Originally Posted by Ambalanche

Where's Cobaltsscrazy? He's gonna be stoked!

He's out there pulling on it.

[tkrelston]

GM has seriously improved many interior materials, especially in low-end cars; however, in most of them they have negated the improved materials with the use of cheap looking textures and graining. The color tones they have used also lends an air of cheapness that combined with the texture, makes them look cheaper than the old materials.
It is my guess this, combined with larger radiuses and flatter surfaces (price reductions) have lead people to still see the interiors as inferior. The Cobalt and HHR’s dash is a prime example of this. These same problems are what I see in new vehicles from many of the Japanese makes as well.
One area where GM excelled is the tan interior of the Aveo Sedan. Of course, this is only my opinion. As for this article, it seems a bit too enthusiastic, but a nice change from the normal negativity.

[THE_SMURF]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

I totally disagree. In the late 90's and early 2000's, you could have said people who want a Z28 or Trans Am would want to shift gears...those who want automatics are more likely to get the V6 models or just not get that kind of car...yet Automatic LS1 and LT1's drastically ousold manual models, even with the disadvantage of being 4 speeds compared to the manual 6 speeds.

The current HHR SS's I see on the lots are mostly automatics (and I have seen a few sold in my area).

The same argument applies to the Corvette as does the F-bodies I made above.

The only argument this doesn't apply to is the import tuners, but there is a very good reason for this...cars like the Civic, the old Celica GTS's, etc, just about HAD to have a manual for their sporty model..because the engines put in there had to be revved so high, a 4 speed auto (which was just about all that was available at the onset of the 4 cylinder tuner popularity rise) wouldn't work. But even now that is reversing. The truly sport compact models by the imports are going to automatic, or manumatic type transmissions. If the engine has the torque for it..or if more gears are offered in an automatic, automatics work just as well...and in some cases better than manuals....and now that those things are avaialbe for sporty 4 cylinder compacts, other manufacturers HAVE moved toward offering them. It has nothing to do with "people who want that type of car want to shift gears"...that was just the easy explanation for it. Here are just some examples...and this list is growing:

-New Suburu WRX, 4 speed automatic offered (the engine now has the torque for it)
-New Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, 6 speed dual clutch automatic (engine with about 200lbs/ft torque)
-New Mitsubishi eclipse, 5 speed auto much more popular in the automatic than the manual is in terms of sales
-Mini Cooper S, 6 speed auto available
-New 2009 Corrola and matrix XRS, 5 speed auto avaialable
-Volkswagon GTI, Clutchless manual with auto mode available

it is mostly the domestic brands that are once again late to the game bringing automatics to their small, sporty cars...the imports have taken the lead in this area. Many of the cars listed above have the automatic version outsell the manual version. It seems that GM is also holding onto that notion of "those who want this car will want to shift gears themself", while some of their competitors are mating automatics or cluthless manuals to their under $30,000 (and sometimes even between $20-$25k) compact cars and selling them.

I would be willing to bet..that if an automatic were offered in a couple and sedan Cobalt SS, that in terms of sales it would match or exceed the manual versions. The people who would buy the automatics may not be lurking on these (or other) message forums on the web...but history has shown us in the examples above...you get sales from automatics...ESPECIALLY if you give people a sporty car without a huge drop in fuel economy.
Sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out.

I see your point and you back it up well, but I still believe that people who buy this type of car will shift their own gears. Perhaps the best course is the one that Subie has taken in the past, the limited WRX has a slush, and leather. The other packages give you cloth and a shifter.

[Smellhound]

If they made the new Cobalt SS with an automatic, then I would be interested in one too. The extra power is nice, but in all honesty, I prefer it for the suspension tweaks, the seats and the availablility of 18 inch wheels.

So chalk me up for a possible buyer this fall if they can find a way to put an automatic in it by the time the 2009's roll out.

[jzEllis]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

I totally disagree. In the late 90's and early 2000's, you could have said people who want a Z28 or Trans Am would want to shift gears...those who want automatics are more likely to get the V6 models or just not get that kind of car...yet Automatic LS1 and LT1's drastically ousold manual models, even with the disadvantage of being 4 speeds compared to the manual 6 speeds.

The current HHR SS's I see on the lots are mostly automatics (and I have seen a few sold in my area).

The same argument applies to the Corvette as does the F-bodies I made above.

The only argument this doesn't apply to is the import tuners, but there is a very good reason for this...cars like the Civic, the old Celica GTS's, etc, just about HAD to have a manual for their sporty model..because the engines put in there had to be revved so high, a 4 speed auto (which was just about all that was available at the onset of the 4 cylinder tuner popularity rise) wouldn't work. But even now that is reversing. The truly sport compact models by the imports are going to automatic, or manumatic type transmissions. If the engine has the torque for it..or if more gears are offered in an automatic, automatics work just as well...and in some cases better than manuals....and now that those things are available for sporty 4 cylinder compacts, other manufacturers HAVE moved toward offering them. It has nothing to do with "people who want that type of car want to shift gears"...that was just the easy explanation for it. Here are just some examples...and this list is growing:

-New Suburu WRX, 4 speed automatic offered (the engine now has the torque for it)
-New Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, 6 speed dual clutch automatic (engine with about 200lbs/ft torque)
-New Mitsubishi eclipse, 5 speed auto much more popular in the automatic than the manual is in terms of sales
-Mini Cooper S, 6 speed auto available
-New 2009 Corrola and matrix XRS, 5 speed auto avaialable
-Volkswagon GTI, Clutchless manual with auto mode available

it is mostly the domestic brands that are once again late to the game bringing automatics to their small, sporty cars...the imports have taken the lead in this area. Many of the cars listed above have the automatic version outsell the manual version. It seems that GM is also holding onto that notion of "those who want this car will want to shift gears themself", while some of their competitors are mating automatics or cluthless manuals to their under $30,000 (and sometimes even between $20-$25k) compact cars and selling them.

I would be willing to bet..that if an automatic were offered in a couple and sedan Cobalt SS, that in terms of sales it would match or exceed the manual versions. The people who would buy the automatics may not be lurking on these (or other) message forums on the web...but history has shown us in the examples above...you get sales from automatics...ESPECIALLY if you give people a sporty car without a huge drop in fuel economy.
Sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out.

you forget one very important fact! NO TRUE foreign sports car that comes as a auto AND a stick sells more autos than sticks. ya know why? because ONLY in a drag race will a Auto offer any kind of a advantage from a performance stand point! thats why Auto T/A's and Z28s out sold the manuals, because in America drag racing is most the average person knows about "high performance". but even then, if autos are such a better thing for performance cars, why are Manuals sports cars ALWAYS more desirable and better at holding their value when used?

also, a paddle shift/true sequential Manual is NOT a automatic. it's simply a Manual that has hydro/electric clutch actuation.

no matter what anyone says, as "sporty" as the eclipse, matrix, corolla, and Golf gti or ANY other FWD performance car is, by their nature they are NOT sports cars...are you serious?

and as for people who want Sport cars not wanting a manual, you were playing right? i live, breath, eat, drink, and sleep cars and going fast, and even among casual performance heads; a sporty car has NO street/track cred if there's no manual option! with the exception of the drag strip, having ANY type of auto but some type of sequential is just embarrassing!

i'm sorry, but the if you claim to love "performance" driving and you prefer a auto, you aren't really "driving", you're just going along for the ride....

[jzEllis]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

The problem is...without an automatic transmission (even if it requires a detuned engine like the HHR SS), how many people will actually go out of their way to even check it out at the dealership, let alone test drive one to notice the new seats, the suspension tweaks...etc?

The Automatic will fit, GM really needs to offer one in this package. They can throw a bone to the "A sports car should only come with a manual transmission" crowd by having the manual have a few more Horsepower, but if this car is really so drivable and sporty and balanced feel...let more consumers see that.

i guess, i personally think this highlights one of the most ANNOYING problems with the US auto industry. whenever any domestic auto company finds and or awakes a really great performance niche, they immediately proceed to dumb down their perfectly designed product for that market in a insipid and ham fisted desire to get either broader sales appeal or to pursue customers who were never in that small niche anyway!

just about EVERY great foreign car maker has a hardcore loyal following with the performance crowd! do you know why? because they ruthlessly cater and listen to that small fanatical group of enthusiast because they in the end are the ones who most greatly appreciate their products and give the best PR to others who may be in the market for their cars. there are so many money loosing great performance models that honda, toyota, nissan, BMW, AND MERCEDES (to name just a few) had released on the market to UNIVERSAL acclaim; that it's amazing that they even bothered to make those models at all. but they did because they wanted to please EVERY corner of the automotive market.

GM, for every person who whines about not getting a auto in the Cobolt SS, theres probably 3 more who either would buy it but they don't offer it as a stick, or are watching from the sidelines to see just how serious GM really is, or think, "as usual GM just doesn't get it" when GM drops another supposedly really great "performance car" on the market yet saturates the market with autos for "posers" or not even offer a manual in the first place.

offer the auto in the sedan, but make a statement AND show you have some dignity and leave the SS coupe manual only. lord knows yall sell 100000+ auto cobalts of ALL types anyway! sheesh, it's not like cobalts are a hard sale anyway! [end rant]

[TJ95GAGT]

Originally Posted by jzEllis

offer the auto in the sedan, but make a statement AND show you have some dignity and leave the SS coupe manual only. lord knows yall sell 100000+ auto cobalts of ALL types anyway! sheesh, it's not like cobalts are a hard sale anyway! [end rant]

They are making the statement, you can only get an SS with manual, coupe or 4 door, whats the ranting about? To me it makes no sense NOT to have auto as an option( pay more for it), that goes for other manufacturers of cars in this segment not just GM. The true sporty car seekers wont care that there is a automatic option, they just wont check that box on the option list. But the people that want auto as an option will be sent elsewhere or will have to downgrade from the SS. I just hope that they don't come out with the "SS" appearance package, thats worse for the SS image than offering an auto IMO!