NYIAS 08: 2009 Pontiac G8 GXP!

[phantomssv]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

^^And what is that suppose to mean??
I will never buy a Kia.

The G5 is rubbish, I agree w/you there. it was a mistake from the start & the outcome of a lie in which Pontiac head/leaders said that they didn't want an entry level car. This was post Sunfire & before G5 went into production.
The G6 needs new skin & a real name. Presumably on Alpha.
The Vibe should have a model where it takes on the Mitsubishi Evolution & the Subaru WRX/STI w/much more HP/TQ & AWD standard. Its time for Pontiac to crash this dance between these two!!
The G8 needs to be renamed w/a real name & get its own skin which looks american in its design/styling & NOT be a blatant rebadge.
Blatant rebadges are cars w/very poor-bad badge engineering. Such as the G8, G5...I would have to include the Outlook & the Acadia.
A person should not be able to see blatantly obviousness 2 models from the same company(GM as a whole)...The G8 should not at all look like the Commodore or any other incarnation of the Commodore under any other badges throughout the world.
The Outlook & Acadia should be more distinctive than they are. The Enclave doesn't look anything like the Acadia/Outlook twins. Good badge engineering gives the given pair(or more) of vehicles exterior distinction between the 2(or more) Such as the Enclave vs. both that of the Outlook & Acadia. This distinction should also include design language respective of its brand & line up & its country of origin. Meaning that a Pontiac(in the case of the G8, G8 ST) should not at all look foreign but look American. The G8 looks & IS foreign & is not a true Pontiac. Nor should it be one.

I will agree that the G8 as it is, is a nice car, has the power & performance that Pontiac had been known for & should again. But the looks of it while handsome or even sexy to some, does not scream or say Pontiac at all. I have no beef w/platform sharing among models. Its something that nearly ever car maker is doing to cut cost & that is fine. Its just that the exteriors have to be distinctive between brands & the interiors have to be up to par or better for every class of car out there that each model is apart of. GM is not the only one doing poor badge engineering w/blatant rebadges. Ford & Chrysler as well as other car companies are guilty of this too.
If I didn't care about what GM is giving us, then I wouldn't make posts like this one among several others. I, like many of you have deep passion for cars & it is this passion that drives me to make these ranting posts.

Have a good day/evening!

I agree with most everything you have said especially that it the G8 is not as differentiated as it should be from the Commodore, but i think that as far as model rebadging goes (which in Australia almost always means literally taking off the other brands small logo and putting on a Holden logo... or if they are really adventures they may even change the name of the car on the back as well) Pontiac is lucky to get a whole new nose\bonnet altogether (of which i am seriously thinking of putting on my car as i love the nostrils sooooo much which is s a Holden Commodore SSV (V8)).

I do think that the new Pontiac G8 nose is a way more convinceing design than the GTO (Monaro) that they tried last time.... Pontiacs GTO design apart from the nostrils was so wrong!!

Im actually hoping that an G8 after market products will start appearing downunder when people start to individualise there G8's.... im hoping for mostly visual changes.

As it is my car is different to the one that came out (Dual 3" exhaust, Lowered Suspension, 22" inch wheels and i took off the spoiler) because i want to differenciate ... I totally understand what you are saying...

Im glad your passion for GM was well intended in your previous posts, even if it may have not been fully explained or understood!! (me for one)

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by phantomssv

I agree with most everything you have said especially that it the G8 is not as differentiated as it should be from the Commodore, but i think that as far as model rebadging goes (which in Australia almost always means literally taking off the other brands small logo and putting on a Holden logo... or if they are really adventures they may even change the name of the car on the back as well) Pontiac is lucky to get a whole new nose\bonnet altogether (of which i am seriously thinking of putting on my car as i love the nostrils sooooo much which is s a Holden Commodore SSV (V8)).

I do think that the new Pontiac G8 nose is a way more convincing design than the GTO (Monaro) that they tried last time.... Pontiacs GTO design apart from the nostrils was so wrong!!

I'm actually hoping that an G8 after market products will start appearing down under when people start to individualise there G8's.... I'm hoping for mostly visual changes.

As it is my car is different to the one that came out (Dual 3" exhaust, Lowered Suspension, 22" inch wheels and i took off the spoiler) because i want to differentiate ... I totally understand what you are saying...

I'm glad your passion for GM was well intended in your previous posts, even if it may have not been fully explained or understood!! (me for one)

Thank you very much, PhantomSSV!!!

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by SCCA1995

Read it & weep. http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/ev...20Truck_OR.htm

"The G8 sport truck significantly stretches Pontiac’s commitment to style and performance and is expected to arrive in dealers’ showrooms in late 2009."

Ok, I've read it. Though I won't weep. I'll grumble & rant a bit more instead.

NEW YORK –The 2010 Pontiac G8 sport truck blurs the line between cars and trucks and is creating an all-new segment in the North American car market. This dramatically different vehicle blends the sporty handling of a performance coupe with the cargo capabilities of a light truck.
Based on the all-new Pontiac G8 performance sedan, the newest member of the G8 family has a longer wheelbase and a cargo bed suitable for either work or recreation. The G8 sport truck significantly stretches Pontiac’s commitment to style and performance and is expected to arrive in dealers’ showrooms in late 2009.
“Pontiac has never shied away from offering segment-defining vehicles, going back to the original GTO,” said Jim Bunnell, Buick-Pontiac-GMC general manager. “There’s simply nothing else like the G8 sport truck on the road today, and we definitely believe that there are customers who will be excited by its distinctive design, performance and cargo capabilities.”

The 2 points I have a problem with of this article above are the 2 that I have italicized & underlined.
The 1st one, This segment that the G8 ST will be in is not anything new. Its an abandoned niche segment that GM & Ford both have been apart of before here in the US/NA. Also I would consider the old Subaru Brat to be part of this niche segment. Which brings me to the 2nd one, Doesn't GM know that Subaru has their modern day Brat, known as the Baja these days & for a few years now?? It is clear to me that Mr.Bunnell has no knowledge that this segment was around before or that Subaru has had a model in this very segment for awhile now or perhaps that they had one before the Baja.

[Puzzel]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

The 1st one, This segment that the G8 ST will be in is not anything new. Its an abandoned niche segment that GM & Ford both have been apart of before here in the US/NA. Also I would consider the old Subaru Brat to be part of this niche segment. Which brings me to the 2nd one, Doesn't GM know that Subaru has their modern day Brat, known as the Baja these days & for a few years now?? It is clear to me that Mr.Bunnell has no knowledge that this segment was around before or that Subaru has had a model in this very segment for awhile now or perhaps that they had one before the Baja.

Your first point is correct -- Pontiac marketing could focus on "recreating" the niche, but maybe they want distance themselves from that past or more specifically the Chevy product.

Your second point is invalid however. The Baja was never marketed as a performance "coupe" -- its a 4 door -- even tho it received a turbo engine in the last few years. And it was cancelled in 2007 -- you cannot buy a new 2008+ Baja.

And rebadging is not the ultimate evil. The G5 has been a sales success in Canada, out selling the Cobalt. And I bet that at least 75% of those sales would not have gone to the Cobalt if the G5 didn't exist. The dealers demanded a small car, and it seems they were more right than the corporate management.

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

I wish this thing in all its trim models would go back to Australia & stay there!!!
I am damn sick & tired of seeing Pontiacs & possible Buicks becoming in part or all blatant rebadges of Holden cars. GM needs to give Pontiac its own design language instead of using the one that Holden is using. The Solstice was a very good start & they wasted it!
I hope that the G8 ST gets the RED light!

Always with the negative waves, Moriarty!

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by Puzzel

Your first point is correct -- Pontiac marketing could focus on "recreating" the niche, but maybe they want distance themselves from that past or more specifically the Chevy product.

Your second point is invalid however. The Baja was never marketed as a performance "coupe" -- its a 4 door -- even tho it received a turbo engine in the last few years. And it was cancelled in 2007 -- you cannot buy a new 2008+ Baja.

And rebadging is not the ultimate evil. The G5 has been a sales success in Canada, out selling the Cobalt. And I bet that at least 75% of those sales would not have gone to the Cobalt if the G5 didn't exist. The dealers demanded a small car, and it seems they were more right than the corporate management.

It(the Baja) wasn't a performance coupe its a 4dr as you stated. The Holden Ute on which the G8 ST is based on does have 4dr models. Whether we get those here in NA remains to be seen. Getting back to the similarities of between the G8 ST & the Baja, the vehicle configuration was basically the same idea. It was a essentially the same thing the El Camino was but smaller & as all Subaru's do, offer AWD, as standard equipment.

Pontiac possibly attempting to distance itself from its past is not a good thing though looking forward to better things is fine & should be the way to go but looking back on ones past to go forward isn't necessarily a bad thing. Sometimes its the best thing. If this possible distancing is from Chevy as well, the G8 ST is not the vehicle to do it with. The majority of people will associate this model w/the El Camino, which is already happening.
It is clear from the public's view that this model should be in Chevy's line up, period!

Thank you for correcting me on the production of the Baja. I had not read or heard that this model was discontinued.

The G5 is a bad job of badge engineering, plain & simple. Though while its been a success in Canada vs. the Cobalt from which it is based, GM/Pontiac could have done a much better job on its differentiation of its exterior. The last gen Cavalier & the Sunfire had good, sufficiently different exteriors unlike the Cavalier & the Sunbird before them. The Dealers crying for an entry level vehicle when they still had the Vibe which served as the entry level model after the Sunfire ended production should have been sufficient enough. Esp. When GM/Pontiac heads said that they will not have a rebadge of the Cobalt in their line up.

[Orbit Orange]

Getting back to the similarities of between the G8 ST & the Baja, the vehicle configuration was basically the same idea.

Hmm....

4 door, tiny bed, AWD, 4 cylinder engine

2 door, large bed, RWD, 8 cylinder engine

Yep those are dead on even.

DON'T BUY THE VEHICLE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. GET OVER IT, IT'S A DONE DEAL.

[vandy0419]

After seeing this BRAND NEW G8 with 30 day tags run a 13.12...I can only imagine what the GXP will turn out!!

http://www.fquick.com/videos/Pontiac_G8_Track_Run/5298

[LeSabre]

Originally Posted by Orbit Orange

Hmm....

4 door, tiny bed, AWD, 4 cylinder engine

2 door, large bed, RWD, 8 cylinder engine

Yep those are dead on even.

DON'T BUY THE VEHICLE IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT. GET OVER IT, IT'S A DONE DEAL.

I never said they were even, Orbit. The Holden Ute has a 4dr model that I wouldn't be surprised if we get that as well as part of the G8 ST's model range! As I said before, the Baja is the same basic idea only smaller.
As far as I'm concerned your comparison doesn't hold any water!

Doesn't matter if its a done deal as it is or not. I'd say its a better than 50% chance that this thing is a mistake for Pontiac of which it does not belong under that brand. Holden makes rebadges the Commodore as a Chevy for the Middle East. GM could have very easily made this Ute a Chevy El Camino as it should have been/be in the 1st place!! GM/Chevy/Bob Lutz saying that Chevy's line up is full, is mostly true, But a vehicle like the G8 ST belongs in the Chevy stable not Pontiac. If not a Chevy it should be a GMC. Pontiac has no need for this vehicle. The public at large & esp. the Chevy fans know that this thing should be the El Camino.

As for liking it, I like it fine. Its just under the wrong brand & again the public at large knows this!

[Orbit Orange]

As far as I'm concerned your comparison doesn't hold any water!

That's because I was CONTRASTING the vehicles, not comparing them.

I don't care what you think or feel. I'm happy it's coming here as a GM product and it could be named the Saab Turdbucket and I'd buy it. You are getting far too caught up in brand managing to see what a helluva vehicle this is. Too many people get caught up in the minutiae (sp.) of a vehicle and it's positioning and forget to see it for what it actually is. I find it sad, your loss my gain. Besides this thread is about the G8 GXP anyway.

[SCCA1995]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

Ok, I've read it. Though I won't weep. I'll grumble & rant a bit more instead.

Whatever makes you happy...I guess.

Originally Posted by LeSabre

It(the Baja) wasn't a performance coupe its a 4dr as you stated. The Holden Ute on which the G8 ST is based on does have 4dr models. Whether we get those here in NA remains to be seen.

The Holden Ute does not have a 4-door model on the VE chassis. The previous model (VZ) did. Had that been sold here along with the GTO, I would have chosen that over the GTO. The idea isn't bad. People's perceptions about it may be. They see . What they don't see is the need for room, not weight carrying capacity. What if a buyer is unmarried. They can pick from more different vehicles without concerns of carrying their family or friends.

[LeSabre]

I would half expect or at least not put it passed Holden to make a 4dr model out of the VE Ute. Esp. if the previous 4dr model sold well or at least decently.

[phantomssv]

Originally Posted by LeSabre

I would half expect or at least not put it passed Holden to make a 4dr model out of the VE Ute. Esp. if the previous 4dr model sold well or at least decently.

Sales of the VZ based four door ute were not good at all... it was a bit of a flop really... they may make another one if the export potential is there though... but defiantly not just for the Australian market only.

[LeSabre]

I would say that there is potential for a 4dr "El Camino" here in the US/NA.
Hopefully GM will get their head out of their own hole & listen to the El Camino faithful.

But then again, GM is hard of hearing at times. Ya know it has that selective hearing thing. GM also tends to just offer things that people didn't want in the 1st place or too many versions of one car in each of the divisions....

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by phantomssv

Sales of the VZ based four door ute were not good at all... it was a bit of a flop really... they may make another one if the export potential is there though... but defiantly not just for the Australian market only.

gee i must live in Holden Central.
I see heaps of Crewmen daily. Success for mine.