NAIAS: 09 Toyota Venza

[Squachy]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

LOL no.

Hey I'm at 5009 posts! I never noticed.

cmon let the kid have his fun.

If he can see the obvious copy between these Im sure he can see an obvious copy between the Toyota Logo and the Borg Cube.

[Squachy]

Originally Posted by Driveshaft

I'm sorry but I don't see the risk that Toyota's making by putting this thing out there. The front looks like a Camry. The back? Eh, I think it's a little bit better looking than the Camry's, but overall I feel it's pretty safe and dull, so more of the same...

The back end actually looks closer to the Aurion's.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by b4z

How is a 4 cylinder going to move that thing if it is based on the Avalon?

There is a good probability that the new 2.7L I4 announced in the press release will be almost 200 hp plus/minus depending on the level of technology they give it. Not bad but nothing like the 3.5L which may end up being the primary engine. The 2.7L I4 would allow them to keep the base model price in the $25000 range. You get what you pay for.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by ponchoman49

Okay so Toyota claims it needs 4 sport utility vehicles to compete with manufacturers who have but 2 choices. Does the thought "old GM" come to mind with way too many model offerings.

Actually it's two offerings with 4 bodies. The RAV4 is unique. The Venza, Highlander and RX350 are all on the same Camry/Avalon/ES350 frame. It allows them to have a different trim level for every buyer from $18000 to over $50000.

That's the key point. Buyers, whether conscioiusly or not, slot themselves into one or two price catagories. 'I'm looking for something in the $25000 range.' 'I expect to pay $30000-$35000 for my next vehicle.' A $35000 buyer doesn't want to think that he/she is buying the same vehicle as a $25000 buyer. If so why pay $10000 more?

[ericmvest]

Originally Posted by skylark68

Does the world really need ANOTHER Toyota crossover???

The Matrix, RAV4, Highlander, and now a Venza, how many cross-over SUV's does Toyota need? I am sure these SUV's cannibalize sales off each other. Fixed costs such as tooling and design will have to be amortized over fewer units. If Toyota keeps segmenting the market into smaller and smaller segments they will depress their profit per vehicle because their fixed costs will be amortized over fewer units. General Motors seems to be rationalizing its product line such replacing the Century and Regal with the LaCrosse and the LaSabre and Park Avenue with the Lucerne. Toyota seems to be going in the opposite direction.

[dagr382]

It's an answer to a question no one asked. Another old maids' special from Toyota.

[vsd]

Originally Posted by ericmvest

The Matrix, RAV4, Highlander, and now a Venza, how many cross-over SUV's does Toyota need?

The Matrix is not a crossover suv, it is a a 5 door Corolla, a small station wagon.

[F14CRAZY]

Originally Posted by Whitesky

Gross, but I guess Toyota owners have never really cared about styling anyway.

Well put.

I do see a lot of Edge in it, but most importantly, the grill's gotta go

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by ericmvest

The Matrix, RAV4, Highlander, and now a Venza, how many cross-over SUV's does Toyota need? I am sure these SUV's cannibalize sales off each other. Fixed costs such as tooling and design will have to be amortized over fewer units. If Toyota keeps segmenting the market into smaller and smaller segments they will depress their profit per vehicle because their fixed costs will be amortized over fewer units. General Motors seems to be rationalizing its product line such replacing the Century and Regal with the LaCrosse and the LaSabre and Park Avenue with the Lucerne. Toyota seems to be going in the opposite direction.

The problem in having only two vehicles that go from $22000 all the way up to $47000 is that the upper one always suffers price-wise. The RAV4 is in noway similar to the Highlander in ride, feel or amenities. Thus a $28000 buyer who doesn't like the RAV has to step all the way up to $$32000 to get into nicer amenities. There is nothing inbetween.

Rather than let the buyer walk, what will end up happening is that the Highlander will be discounted down to the buyer's $28000 level. With an inbetween product there is no need to discount the Highlander. It's all about product support, the xB & Matrix support the RAV; the RAV supports the Venza; the Venza supports the Highlander; the Highlander supports the RX350. Frankly this is one of the reasons that Toyota is so profitable and doesn't have to offer huge discounts on it's cars and crossovers.

[Minnesota Nice]

Originally Posted by ericmvest

The Matrix, RAV4, Highlander, and now a Venza, how many cross-over SUV's does Toyota need? I am sure these SUV's cannibalize sales off each other.

And GM doesn't have vehicles that cannibalize sales off each other? Enclave, Acadia, Outlook. Equinox, Torrent, Vue. Cobalt, Astra, G5.

The list goes on.

There must be a reason why it's coming out. If Toyota couldn't profit from it, rest assured it wouldn't be made. I try to rationalize that about GM, too, but with the Traverse coming soon at a much lower sticker price than the others, I question how it will affect their sales. From what I've seen, Saturn dealers can barely move the Outlook (why, I dont know, I love how it looks).

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by montrealvue

GM killed the G8 wagon so this one is now on my radar...reluctantly.

I didn't see that...

[Joevette]

a 2.7l I4 is HUGE, like a big-block 4-cylinder. Have there been any similar or larger sized 4 bangers around in recent times?

[Squachy]

Originally Posted by Joevette

a 2.7l I4 is HUGE, like a big-block 4-cylinder. Have there been any similar or larger sized 4 bangers around in recent times?

Isnt the 4 bangers in the Tacoma's (yes i believe those exist) 2.7L also?

This new 2.7 would probaly put out 200hp, which gives it a good competitive number......
Cuz after the 2.4 158 weaksauce motor, theres nothing between that and the 3.5L 268hp beast.

[derrado]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

• Actually I like the interior the best.
• I think it IS a sporty wagon. At least the press release implies it with the tranny and a couple of other hints.
• I don't like brown anything except shoes
• There is a HUGE shift in public buying toward crossovers of all kinds. To make sure that they have enough supply to meet the current and future demand Toyota is building a plant in Ont to increase RAV sales by 50% and a plant in MS to increase Highlander sales by 50%. This one is supposed to sell about 75000 units.
• I think it will catch enough empty nesters coming out of SUVs that it will do well.
• They say it's on an Avalon platform ... but it's shorter. It's exaclty the same size as both the Camry and the Highlander. That's weird it looks like it should be smaller.
• Pricing is supposed to be between the RAV and the Highlander according to the press report. That would put it in the $25000-$32000 range. That's pretty solid and accessible for most buyers.
• Goofy name.

I think that the interior and the added toys will sell a lot of them. Add a hybrid version getting 30+ mpg and it will really sell.

The interior is awkward. The gear stick up on the dash is something that you'd usually see in a minivan. It's not sporty, it's not even SUV-like. It's silly. And to top it off, it makes it look like there's a chunk missing out of the dash. The rest of the interior is just Toyota bland, it's as though they felt they had to do just one thing different (think the Camry interior with that weird aqua coloured plastic)

It may be a sporty crossover, but it's not a sporty wagon. It's this awkward milieu of car and crossover cues. The interior is definitely attempting to appear somewhat rugged.

They may be crossover mad but do you think this is going to be any more than a niche player? The RAV4 and Highlander are their bread-and-butter models. They have relatively mainstream styling and sensible ambitions (plus Toyota's reputation), and that's why they have a big piece of the market pie.

If Toyota was desperate to cash in on the crossover market some more, they would have made this look more like a crossover. Jacked it up a little, made it look trucky or perhaps tried to make it look striking (in the vein of an Enclave or Murano) and not this weird car-crossover thing. This car may be pleasant visually to some or even attractive, but it won't get lingering stares or excessive compliments. That's the car's problem. For all its solid underpinnings, it has an odd exterior and in the crossover market that is not a good thing.

To top it off, if sales are off projections they can't lump it in with the Camry because it won't be called Camry Venza. AND the Solara is leaving so Camry's sales will fall. Of course, if Toyota does lump Venza sales in with Camry sales, we'll never know if it was a failure and Camry sales will be artificially boosted because Toyota does some sleazy sales manipulations (it's not a Corolla Matrix, so why are they counted as the same sales?!)

[svx92]

Originally Posted by montrealvue

GM killed the G8 wagon so this one is now on my radar...reluctantly.

I dont what shocks me more- Is the G8 wagon really dead?

or that however reluctantly you'd consider that toy-ugly monstrosity