NAIAS 09: 2010 Cadillac SRX

[uboys]

Will it beat the new RX in reviews.
That is all that matters. It must trounce that thing.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by uboys

Will it beat the new RX in reviews.
That is all that matters. It must trounce that thing.

I would like to think so.
I would also hope that there is an SRX Platinum Edition waiting in the wings, should the RX continue with its Pebble Beach Edition.

[American_Muscle]

love the interior and rear taillights....ill have to see it in person though, to me it just looks like the equinox and vue too much.

[kuns83]

I like it!

Its much better than the 2010 RX and its wierd Teardrop-shaped center stack

[fp115]

Originally Posted by AdmiralViscen

I don't get why they didn't call this something else. If it had an available third row and standard AWD then SRX would have made sense, but it makes no sense now.

It also doesn't make sense to not offer a third row in this class, it is expected and it will cost it sales. Same goes for the Equinox. Cram one in there, even if it's only good enough for kids or short trips. People want it.

Uhhh why? Cadillac has the Escalade. Equinox has the Traverse.

[SullyND]

Originally Posted by AdmiralViscen

It also doesn't make sense to not offer a third row in this class, it is expected and it will cost it sales. Same goes for the Equinox. Cram one in there, even if it's only good enough for kids or short trips. People want it.

The RX and MKX seem to sell well enough without the third row.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I still don't think you're giving them enough credit.
It doesn't matter if OHC or OHV? But then you say "what they know is what they read..." GM's engines have been a sore weak point due to their age and lack of refinement. That helps the customer how?

They don't know DSG and SMG. But they know enough that the more gears a transmission has the more efficient the car is. Because they "read it somewhere."

They notice their friends driving imported cars and seeing just how green the grass is on the other side of the fence. And then they look at Cadillac and see.... brown patches of grass. Gaping... STUPID brown patches of grass that should never have been allowed in a Cadillac.

This is why stupid details like a push button start and a cool looking key fob that may sound inane matter so much. Yet CTS launched with ... no push button start.

People notice. Like how loose a GM ignition switch is compared to the imports. It feels cheap. Like how panels sound thin and flimsy in GM cars. This is how GM got is crappy reputation.

People notice and you don't give them enough credit.



SRX didn't do well in its first incarnation. Neither did the FX.
GM's solution was to make it cheaper so SRX could sell more.
Infiniti's solution was to improve the FX and fix what was wrong in the first incarnation.

There are 2 distinctly different methods of management here.
GM took the easy and cheap way out, losing brand equity in favor of the quick buck.
Infiniti chose to improve on FX's defects, which continues to build positive equity for the FX over time.

Like I said. If Infiniti was run like GM, the FX would have become a rebadged Murano. And there would be people like you defending the decision.

GM is dead wrong. And you are dead wrong.

This SRX should never have happened!!!



Cars might be a lifelong hobby of mine, but business is my specialty.
What they have done with SRX is a typical example of how GM fails to understand the market and understand product positioning and branding. And this is why GM will ultimately fail.

GM's competitors know how to build cars.

Tell you what, how bout you find GM a few billion to re-engineer Sigma II to accommodate the proper proportions for a crossover. The SRX failed because it's proportions were wrong. It was a wagon. FX failed because it wasn't a great car. GM poured money into the SRX to fix everything that wasn't cost prohibitive - interior is example 1.

Should the SRX have been built at all...NO - it tried to be a crossover and wagon at the same time and it flopped.
and GM learned from it by making a CTS wagon for current SRX owners - its virtually the same size! They DID improve the SRX. Its now called CTS Wagon. It was never a crossover to begin with and they corrected their stupid mistake.

Then they built a crossover - a necessary vehicle for luxury makers. Had they had billions to toss around, they should have used Sigma. Fine. No argument there - but we don't live in lala land. GM gives billions to the UAW in excess compensation that should go into cars.

So, they took the best platform they had for the money they had and built the car. If it had been Haldex AWD standard - I would have said great. Time will tell if it can really keep up with the RWD folks - but frankly, I've driven the BMW X5, and would not buy it - too rough, and not opulent. If TE solves that while offering near the same performance in AWD - perfect. Thats a win in my book (and I opposed to you would actually consider purchasing this vehicle)

FWD was the mistake because it was totally unnecessary and damaged the brand. GM should have made AWD standard and called the platform something else. Why GM doesn't just stretch the truth a little is beyond me. Swap a few suspension parts and give it a different name and standard AWD.

Again, its incredibly easy to come up with ideal lineups. Why I've never bothered. What is hard is to use fixed, finite resources to build a brand. We'll see about this SRX - if the AWD lives up to performance expectations.

The reviewers will give it (AWD model) high marks if it earns them. The bias is gone with the economy. Picking on american cars isn't cool anymore. Which way the engine is pointing will not wreck the reviews, and again the public is too stupid to believe anything but what the reviewers say in the last paragraph.

[63GrandSport001]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I would like to think so.
I would also hope that there is an SRX Platinum Edition waiting in the wings, should the RX continue with its Pebble Beach Edition.

I think that Cadillac should have a platinum edition of all of their vehicles with super nice interiors and nice touches to the outside.



Something along these lines.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

I think that Cadillac should have a platinum edition of all of their vehicles with super nice interiors and nice touches to the outside.



Something along these lines.

Aaaahh yes. I remember this SEMA SRX very well!!!
It was designed by Dana Buchman -- a high end fashion designer.

She definitely added a bit of class to this design.

I'd really like to see the Platinum Editions put some sort of specialty designs, like this SEMA SRX, with high end leathers, suedes, wood choices, etc. Something to put it truly heads and shoulders over the standard fare.

[nsap]

New live shots added to first post.

[uboys]

But will it beat the RX in sales? That's a tough one.

[bhoppes]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I would like to think so.
I would also hope that there is an SRX Platinum Edition waiting in the wings, should the RX continue with its Pebble Beach Edition.

Honestly after reading that the new SRX would not compete with the Pebble Beach Edition really baffles me. When I went to the Lexus website, the only additional items added to the Pebble Beach addition are a chrome grille, exclusive wheels, and different packages you can choose from that involve golfing or traveling. I don't see anything more special with the Lexus compared to the Cadillac, unless I'm not looking hard enough.

[jasaero]

Originally Posted by Docray1

Sigma is dead, for sure. Too heavy and expensive. Zeta II was the foundation for the now-cancelled DT7. It is unlikely to be resurrected due to weight issues. No decision yet on what will underpin the next sedan, but at this time, it seems an Epsilon variant is most likely. But this will be years from now.

This is all to bad. Particularly the news that Alpha is stalled out. Really as soon as the gas crunch hit though and GM sales in general started to tank because of the heavy truck focus, I think most should have understood Cadillac plans would get messed up as the need to develop more fuel savvy vehicles became the primary focus. Now the fuel crisis has transitioned into an all out recession with GM and the rest of the auto industry taking the brunt of the blows.

I really think Lutz's comments that Alpha type car is just a glimmer in the eye now is probably pretty true. He made it sound like that is all it ever was which is probably a bit miss leading. Also he said Global Zeta is dead in the new CAFE world, but I am not totally convinced that is how this will pan out. I think large cars are right now not at all a priority of any sort at GM. In the CAFE world if you neglect the biggest vehicles and basically scare buyers away from them while you focus heavily on smaller vehicles you will transform your sales bell curve down to the smaller vehicles. It would be best if you just didn't have large vehicles like Honda. This particular focus is why I figure Alpha will happen, but will probably just be after all the pedestrian volume cars are worked out as it will not be a volume product. I really think volume vehicle focus to make sure CAFE is met will really be what kills Cadillac more than anything else. It's not really miss management of the brand as most are trying to call it here. It's just lack of a sound reason to invest in it when most of the cars that will sell well with such a brand aren't gonna be efficient ones. It's already know MB and maybe BMW will probably just pay the CAFE fines. So, obviously this segment isn't about to start buying efficient models that will help MPG averages.

But my guess is that GM intends to keep large and competitive vehicles upto date in non-CAFE markets like China and Australia. If they just invest a bit of extra time as they mature those products in ensuring they can easily be certified for use in this country you could easily re-intro large cars here that will actually sell when you finally understand how many your CAFE averages pan out to allow. I really don't think they are serious about any particular large car direction other than asking the development groups to brain storm ways to do better than the current Zeta, which is really the only direction they had before the CAFE changes came about. In the end I figure funding for larger sedans in particular will be near non existent until all the small and medium sized sedans are modernized with the most efficient powertrains and such. When that is finally starting to near completion I figure the CAFE question will be more concisely understood and probably have room for RWD large cars again.

The Cadillac Story sure is going to be a sad one for awhile though! The CTS line and this SRX could do the brand well in the interim though I think. Even the Slade will probably soldier on with OK success. They might just be best off dropping STS and DTS abruptly at CTS MCE to focus on it. They would loose some in doing that, but it could help the brand in general if you only offered products you could make sure were the best possible. Some would say that means you drop everything but the CTS since this new SRX doesn't do good to the brand.

I don't agree with this though as I think the CUV segment is better served by FWD/AWD vehicles than vehicles like the X3/X5/X6 or FX. The Slade is probably profitable enough they could afford to keep it and move it to Lambda in a very unique way compared to other Lambda's with V8's and such. This could make it a more proper competitor to X5, range rover, and others than the Slade currently is while retaining current slade customers. I really think Lambda is a better basis for this type of vehicle also just like TE is probably better in the long run for a smaller SUV/CUV than Sigma or FM or other such RWD car platforms. I also think that the current slade isn't cross shopped much with LR, X5, and the Porsche is more due to it being more truck oriented than those vehicles than because those vehicles are more performance oriented. LR's used to be much more truck oriented before they became primarily a premium brand. They now look more like oversized Mini's than a Land Rover. This more car like appearance I think is preferred by a lot of Premium SUV buyers. I think Slade could be somewhere closer to car looks while holding traditional Slade looks and pull both camps when moved to Lambda. I think the only reason the RWD car based sporty CUV/SUVs seem more premium to characters like Mg is more because of this car like aura along with a modern DOHC V8's actually fitting in them while they won't fit in any transverse vehicles easily. I think this could be resolved with a LSx powered Lambda Slade as most don't know the Long vs Trans aspect, particularly if the Slade could retain similar look and presence into moving to Lambda as I am sure it could. It just couldn't retain TOO much of that presence. Really I think something somewhere between GMT900 Slade and Enclave with a V8 and labelled as a Slade really hurt a lot of the Performance oriented car based CUVs that currently compete at this price point. I think the unibody car based looks, ride, packaging and other attributes outside of handling are more the attraction than the dynamics of these vehicles. Actually the most common complaint about the X5 seems to be it's ride. I think a lot buy it for other reasons and are eventually scared away by the ride.

That was a bit long winded Cadillac analysis, but I have a lot of hope for this brand. It's just that I don't think it's in GM's best interest to focus on this brand for the time being. When they do get back to it though, I think it's important if they do read these pages that they realize some don't agree to a blatant rip off of BMW product positioning like people here such as Mg recommend. I think small and medium sized coupes and sedans need to focus heavily on how BMW positions such products, but in the SUV/CUV segment I think focusing on Lexus and Acura is more import. All the while they need to be Cadillac from a styling, content, and presence of the vehicle standpoint. I don't think a brand is defined by how it positions every individual vehicle so much as how it styles and identifies those vehicles in the market. You can have a sport focused model in one segment and comfort focused model in the next while having a very specific AND PREMIUM brand identity in the market. This is a FACT!!

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

She definitely added a bit of class to this design.

Where? I don't see any.

I think it's awful.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Where? I don't see any.

I think it's awful.

I like the leather diamond pattern in the seats and doors but the hard plastics and bland shapes killed the effort.

I think that an equivalent Dana Buchman treatment in the new SRX should work much much better. . .