NAIAS 08: 2009 Cadillac CTS-V

[1487]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Oh I'm still here.
I said my peace on the CTS-V's engine months ago.
And it still needs to be a high-powered turbo DOHC V8.

Is this the engine XLR-V will get? If so... it needs to have 575-625HP to be competitive. Though 550 might be OK.

competitive with what? What are you talking about? The XKR and SL63 do not have 575hp, they arent even close. The M6 only has 507.

to say this car "needs" a turbo DOHC V8 is beyond ridiculous considering the numbers we have on the 6.2L V8. This will leave the C63 and M3 in the dust and should be right on top of the more expensive E63 and M5.

[jkennedy293]

Pretty awesome stats so far. Now all we need is pics and pricing!!

[bcjohnso99]

Is it possible that Cadillac will evolve the CTS into the top sedan in the lineup and keep inserting new, less expensive models under it (as it grows in size and price)?

Why try to recover the STS's image when the CTS is clearly taking on the world's best?

Consistent with the cancellation of the Ultra-V8 program?

[1487]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

This should be a superb vehicle from just about every perspective and represents a useful halo vehicle for a brand. The only concern-and it's a pretty minor one, all things considered-is that there's no mention of a two-door CTS/"CTC." Ugh.



I guess I was unaware of the extent of your influence. Shame on me!

if they had really listened to him it would havea DOHC V8 instead of the "inadequate" OHV unit it has now. when will Cadillac ever learn?

[jasaero]

As far as RPM for Torque, that can be ignored. This is a marketing people write up I am sure anyhow. They atleast said "estimated". I am sure it is like the ZR1 and final SAE HP and Torque numbers will be held until closer to the actual release of the car. Hopefully they are low balling these HP numbers for this car as insiders are saying on other forums about the ZR-1. I have read some things that suggest the real meaning of the 620hp prelim or estimated figure for the ZR-1 really means ATLEAST 620hp and that 650hp is closer to what the final number will probably be.

[CADILLACSIXTEEN]

Originally Posted by blank disk

Impressive numbers for sure, but who the heck can afford to buy, insure and use this beast, and where are you going to drive it without AWD? Any moisture on the ground at all and it sits in the garage.

I like the idea of an everyday MKS with AWD and Eco Boost. I bet it costs $15K less to buy and certainly to ensure as well. Better FE is not exactly a bad word these days too.

People in the market for this car do not care about any of your concerns what so ever.....
who can buy, insure, and use it???? What are you arguing here!?!?!?!
Obviously the same people who bought the last generation and the same people who buy M's, AMG's, etc, etc.

And nothing here said it wasnt going to be offered in AWD, but even if its not, I dont think these people will care about that either.... Most buyers put amazing cars like this up for the winter.

how the f**k can you compare a Lincoln MKS to this car...how?
You're right it prolly does cost 15K less with AWD, which makes it perfect for your needs.
Fuel economy... this is a PERFORMANCE VEHICLE!!!!!!!
I'm sure a Turbo V6 would have went over realllyyyyyy well when all of the competition has V8's, and not to mention the last generation V had a V8.... Infact, one of the last generation CTS's high points was its power.... this is a no brainer....

Turbocharge the regular CTS...that's fine and probably welcome.... but the letter V actually stands for more than a few hp gain and a couple badges.

Lincoln MKS.... wow, I cant believe you used that name in a comparison to the new V... this is a whole different league here, my friend. The MKS couldnt even fill the last generations CTS's shoes let alone the new.

[jasaero]

Thanks for moving this to the front page promptly MG. Although it seems to be bumped off the front page again now? Also want to credit 1487 for pointing out GM had an unprotect page with the info. Now when are the locked up GM Media pictures going to leak?? GM leaked the info themselves. I want to see the Interior!

[61BelAir]

Originally Posted by 1487

if they had really listened to him it would havea DOHC V8 instead of the "inadequate" OHV unit it has now. when will Cadillac ever learn?

Inadequate? okay...this is where you should have said, "well it may have more HP and it maybe be faster but it will never match a BMW/Mercedes/Porsche because those cars are pieces of art.

[61BelAir]

Originally Posted by blkwrxsti

Exactly what I was thinking, how many pieces are actually different between an LS9 and an LSA anyways? It'd be really nice if it were just a cam and controller software...

I'm sure that motor is dieing for more air. Lots of people think they are smoke and mirrors, but a good air intake system by itself would probably get a 5% increase minimum. On a 550HP motor thats 27HP.

[atomicshark]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Oh I'm still here.
I said my peace on the CTS-V's engine months ago.
And it still needs to be a high-powered turbo DOHC V8.

Is this the engine XLR-V will get? If so... it needs to have 575-625HP to be competitive. Though 550 might be OK.

What makes the CTS-V's engine inadequate besides the fact that it is a OHV design?

I think we should actually drive one before judging it.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by CADILLACSIXTEEN

People in the market for this car do not care about any of your concerns what so ever.....
who can buy, insure, and use it???? What are you arguing here!?!?!?!
Obviously the same people who bought the last generation and the same people who buy M's, AMG's, etc, etc.

And nothing here said it wasnt going to be offered in AWD, but even if its not, I dont think these people will care about that either.... Most buyers put amazing cars like this up for the winter.

how the f**k can you compare a Lincoln MKS to this car...how?
You're right it prolly does cost 15K less with AWD, which makes it perfect for your needs.
Fuel economy... this is a PERFORMANCE VEHICLE!!!!!!!
I'm sure a Turbo V6 would have went over realllyyyyyy well when all of the competition has V8's, and not to mention the last generation V had a V8.... Infact, one of the last generation CTS's high points was its power.... this is a no brainer....

Turbocharge the regular CTS...that's fine and probably welcome.... but the letter V actually stands for more than a few hp gain and a couple badges.

Lincoln MKS.... wow, I cant believe you used that name in a comparison to the new V... this is a whole different league here, my friend. The MKS couldnt even fill the last generations CTS's shoes let alone the new.

Apples and oranges. MKS competes with the plain jane STS, and is not meant to be a performance vehicle in any way. But let's not go too far here... the last generation CTS couldn't even match a 3 year old Lincoln LS in any category, and the MKS is a superior vehicle to the current CTS in some ways. Apples and oranges when we're talking about the V.

The MKS is a luxury sedan for normal people who have enough money to afford a nice car, seeing as even with the turbo engine, it won't eclipse $55,000 fully loaded, and it's a full 2 sizes bigger than the CTS. A thinking person's luxury car, if you will.

The CTS-V is a hardcore sports sedan for speed maniacs, such as those who reside on these forums, who have an absolutely ridiculous amount of money sitting around. You cannot drive a CTS-V every day, because once the weather turns nasty, you're in the ditch. A CTS-V will likely share a driveway with an Escalade or an all-weather vehicle of some kind. Commuting is a losing proposition unless you have the cash for the gas bill.

[CaptainDan]

Lincoln is still in business? I thought they were gone.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by 1487

competitive with what? What are you talking about? The XKR and SL63 do not have 575hp, they arent even close. The M6 only has 507.

to say this car "needs" a turbo DOHC V8 is beyond ridiculous considering the numbers we have on the 6.2L V8. This will leave the C63 and M3 in the dust and should be right on top of the more expensive E63 and M5.

Competitive with what?
Please check the HP ratings again. SL65 is 604HP. CL65 is 604HP.
It's already rumored that Jaguar is working on a new high output V8 that will be "500+ HP."

M6 might be 507HP now... but what will it be 2-3 years from now?
M6 is a supercharger away from 600HP.

And we don't even know what the final HP numbers will be for LF-A.

EDIT: Oh and by the way, CTS-V will not compete with C63 or M3. It will compete with M5 and E63 and RS6 (In Europe).

Originally Posted by atomicshark

What makes the CTS-V's engine inadequate besides the fact that it is a OHV design?

I think we should actually drive one before judging it.

I didn't say it was "inadequate."
I said it needs to be OHC.
Infer what you want.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Competitive with what?
Please check the HP ratings again. SL65 is 604HP. CL65 is 604HP.
It's already rumored that Jaguar is working on a new high output V8 that will be "500+ HP."

M6 might be 507HP now... but what will it be 2-3 years from now?
M6 is a supercharger away from 600HP.

And we don't even know what the final HP numbers will be for LF-A.

All hypotheical issues that Cadillac can solve rather easily. The LSA is a detuned LS8, so it can get into the 600+ HP range rather easily.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by nsap

All hypotheical issues that Cadillac can solve rather easily. The LSA is a detuned LS8, so it can get into the 600+ HP range rather easily.

Oh I'm weeelllll aware of that.

I'm kind of interested in seeing if GM will "protect" its precious ZR1. Not that XLR-V would ever compete with ZR1 in the first place, but seeing it is the crown jewel of GM, and there's that "Corvette rule" in place, one never knows.

It just shows what I've been saying for quite some time. Corvette might remain the performance king at GM... but Cadillac will have to match or exceed all models of Corvette in order to play in the segments Cadillac needs to compete in to be relevant.

But like you said, it's "hypothetical." But the numbers are realistic, given the competition of XLR-V.