Five Diesels from Europe that will out-eco a Prius

[Kowalski]

Your Prius may be rated at 60 mpg in the city and 51 mpg while cruising the countryside, but chances are you’re not realizing those numbers the EPA obtained by strapping Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive to a dynamometer. In Europe, where fuel economy is calculated by actually operating an engine on the road while it’s under the hood of a vehicle, the Prius returns a more realistic 47 mpg in the city and 56 mpg on the highway, or 5.0L/100km city and 4.2L/100km highway in the continent’s native metric.

This more realistic fuel economy rating lowers the bar enough for a handful of European small cars to beat the Prius in a game at which many Americans believe it’s indomitable. And guess what, these cars from the old world all use highly fuel-efficient diesel engines.

(All mileage numbers represent official European rating converted into miles/gallon via this conversion site)

Audi A2 1.2 TDI


city: 65.33
highway: 87.11
average: 78.4


Smart fortwo CDI


city: 60.31
highway: 75.87
average: 69.18

Peugeot 107 Urban 1.4 HDI 54


city: 44.38
highway: 69.18
average: 57.37


Citroën C2 HDi 70 SensoDrive


city: 48
highway: 61.9
average: 56


KIA Picanto 1.1 CRDi EX


city: 48
highway: 31.9
average: 56

If many in this country are so concerned about eeking the most amount of miles from a gallon of fuel, why hasn’t the modern diesel enjoyed the same success here as the hybrid? The easy answer would be the ghost of diesel’s past, particularly a bad batch of oil burners designed by Oldsmobile in the 1980’s.

The more complicated response is that Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel fuel hasn’t been readily available in the U.S. like it is in Europe. This special blend of diesel contains less sulfur, which reduces emissions, but also allows for better emissions control systems to be used on a diesel engine. Fortunately ULSD will be the new standard in the U.S. come this fall. Some companies, like DaimlerChrysler, are waiting in the wings with 50-state approved diesels that are powerful, clean and get grand gas mileage. Will diesels finally become the eco-peer of hybrids? Who will be the first to marry the two in an ultra-efficient diesel hybrid production car? Time will tell, but we can all breathe easier knowing more green options are sprouting up every year.

[Kowalski]

Although these Euro Diesels are no lookers. They still look much better than a Honda Insight or Toyota Prius.

[BobLikesBunnies]

Or the Lupo 3L TDI with 78mpg 3L of diesel fuel for every 100km though the lupo is now gone it shows that Diesel is the superior of the two technologies. But here in america the best we can get is a 1.9L TDI my dads hwy gets in the 50's city 40's But at least you can get them in a regular Golf or Jetta and even the beetle these cars would stick it to the Japanese cars here and the false american perseption about there superiority esp when it comes to repairs and longevity its true most americans think of Diesel as smelly with a plume of smoke out the back end of the car when its far from the truth.


78MPG

[Toto]

city: 48
highway: 31.9
average: 56

[genjy]

Originally Posted by Kowalski

And guess what, these cars from the old world all use highly fuel-efficient diesel engines.

That's because diesel has been around for soo much longer than gas-electric hybrid, especially in Europe. The hybrid technology we have now is putting up a pretty good fight versus diesel even though diesel has had more development. I think we still need to give hybrid at least another decade of R&D to understand its full potential.

[richb65]

So here's an obvious question... why not marry a small diesel engine with a hybrid?
On a different subject, I think consumers should focus on "life cycle costs" rather than just MPG. I read that hybrids require battery replacement every 4 years, and that can cost as much as 25% of the original cost of the vehicle. Yikes! Based on life cycle costs, I would choose a diesel or high-mileage gasoline engine anyday over a hybrid.

[Mikkoo]

Originally Posted by BobLikesBunnies

Or the Lupo 3L TDI with 78mpg 3L of diesel fuel for every 100km though the lupo is now gone it shows that Diesel is the superior of the two technologies. But here in america the best we can get is a 1.9L TDI my dads hwy gets in the 50's city 40's But at least you can get them in a regular Golf or Jetta and even the beetle these cars would stick it to the Japanese cars here and the false american perseption about there superiority esp when it comes to repairs and longevity its true most americans think of Diesel as smelly with a plume of smoke out the back end of the car when its far from the truth.


78MPG

The Lupo looks incredibly old and dated looking. I don't care what mileage it gets, I wouldn't pony up money for this.

[mtndrew1]

Well in response to point #1, it's because modern diesels are ridiculously expensive to manufacture, nearly on par with a modern hybrid.

The reason new diesels don't belch smoke or stink as badly as they used to is because of new, expensive technology. Fuel pressure systems that hold 20,000 PSI, for example, aren't cheap. Neither are particulate filters to keep soot from blowing out the tailpipe. Urea injection, the newest concept in reducing diesel emissions (injecting a portion of bovine urine into the exhaust stream to aid cleanup) is expensive. Plus the basic engine internals have to be far more robust (engine block, head, valve seals, pistons, timing chain, etc.).

So to mate the two would be wildly expensive. You'd end up with the expense of a modern diesel (remember, a TDI Jetta costs more than a hybrid Prius, while performing worse and using more fuel) plus the complexity and expense of a hybrid and its associated electronics.

Don't ignore that diesel economy comes primarily from two advantages. One advantage is that diesel fuel has about 30% more energy per gallon than gasoline. The second advantage is that diesels don't use throttling like a gasoline engine does, so they get the benefit of running at WOT in comparison to a gasoline engine. Well, hybrids use the output of the electric motors to keep the gasoline engine running at close to WOT most of the time too, so that diesel advantage mostly disappears when mating to a hybrid system. So you're left with the 30% better energy/gallon ratio, but that's not any more efficient, it's just playing with more energy.

Diesels and hybrids have similar performance characteristics too, which don't mate terribly well. The Prius has more low-end torque (300 lb/ft) than the current VW TDIs and uses the gasoline engine to keep power up in high-demand situations. So you end up with this nice, broad torque and power curve because just as the electric passes out of its peak performance area the gasoline engine is hitting it stride. Well diesels are good at one thing: low-end grunt. So if you stick a hybrid system with a diesel, you'll have so much low-end torque as to be almost unusable, with the vehicle really running out of steam as speed builds. Not really a happy marriage there.

So the bottom line is that a diesel+hybrid would be incredibly expensive, pollute more, have twice the reliability concerns (two complex systems instead of one) all while returning only marginally better economy for the end user.

As for the batteries, you're wrong there. Hybrid batteries are expected to last the life of the vehicle. Toyota warrants theirs (in clean air states) for 10 years, 150,000 miles with no deductible. In high-emissions states it's 10/100. Ford's and Honda's coverage are similar.

-Drew

Originally Posted by richb65

So here's an obvious question... why not marry a small diesel engine with a hybrid?
On a different subject, I think consumers should focus on "life cycle costs" rather than just MPG. I read that hybrids require battery replacement every 4 years, and that can cost as much as 25% of the original cost of the vehicle. Yikes! Based on life cycle costs, I would choose a diesel or high-mileage gasoline engine anyday over a hybrid.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Mikkoo

The Lupo looks incredibly old and dated looking. I don't care what mileage it gets, I wouldn't pony up money for this.

The Lupo is not longer available. VW Fox is the successor.

[Kowalski]

BobLikesBunnies

Good call on the VW Lupo TDI.

I always liked the Volkswagen Lupo. It really is great city-car. Funky looking and the GTI version is a blast to drive.

Sadly, Volkswagen went mediocre with the Lupo replacement. As far the reviews tell, the Brazilian developed new VW Fox is a rather poor car.

Long live the Lupo!

[jbernie]

As much as i love the efficency of these vehicles, i think i will stick with my grand pric here in Colorado, it is bad enough playing chicken to all the F350's and large SUVs in a decent size car, let alone something that small. EEK!

Although the Audi does look a decent size thankfully!

[member12]

87mpg in that audi? If I could fit in that car, I'd get one.

What is it about fuel efficient cars that make them so ugly? Those wheels on the audi and a little bit different grille would make it a decent looking econbox.

[Mischief007]

Originally Posted by richb65

So here's an obvious question... why not marry a small diesel engine with a hybrid?

Peugeot and Citroen are doing that and should be made available by 2010 or 2012. Can't remember which.

[Toto]

Originally Posted by Mischief007

Peugeot and Citroen are doing that and should be made available by 2010 or 2012. Can't remember which.

GM also.

http://www.gm.com/company/gmability/...ra_011005.html

[DuSpinnst]

With low sulfur fuel the diesel hybrid in small cars will be the epitome of fuel economy. Gas hybrids are fine for mid size cars and for small trucks, but both large trucks and small cars diesel hybrids are the answer.