2013 Audi S8: Faster Than All of You

[germeezy1]

Well, Germeezy, the CTS V was mentioned. Being that we still have an STS V in the organization, i thought i would put my two cents in on this.
Is there a problem with this?

No problem at all, and truth be told the S8 is simply not competition for either of those cars. Realistically it's true competitors are the S63/65, XJR, and Alpina B7.

Cadillac (and Chevrolet with the Camaro and Vette) had better learn a little more about high performance AWD or they won't be able to compete into the future. Over 400hp to just the rear wheels is just pissing away the power.

I drive a RWD car quite regularly with very near to 400 hp, and 400 lb ft of torque. I can emphatically assure you that this car could easily handle another 100 horsepower, and that is utilizing a simply not notable in any way 255 mm width tire.

The A8/S8 is literally the last large luxury sedan that I would buy notwithstanding the Equus which I do not even consider a true luxury car. The 7 series, XJ, S class, and Range Rover for me shade it in nearly every way, and quite simply I have no desire for a car that is such a shrinking violet in this rarefied air.

[donmateo]

AWD performance vehicles would be really nice from GM. Something Caddy can easily pull off.

[mgescuro]

For $110k, it better be damn fast. For $126k as tested? That is A LOT of money for any car.

Should Cadillac chase after something that will sell less than 500 units in the US? It would be nice to have it but lets get something a tad more practical here.

I wish the S8 looked more the part. A bigger grill? Still, pretty awesome car but again, it better be. lol

For a performance flagship? $126,000 is on the lower end of the spectrum. A B7 Alpina is $135,000. ANd the S63 is $155,000-ish. I don't count the S65 because that's $210,000-ish.

Jaguar doesn't have an XJR at this stage, but an XJL SS SC is around $130,000. Of course, you can get an Ultimate at $160,000 with similar specs and far more luxury.


What this does show is the caliber and variety of competition a Cadillac Omega must face. Corvette-level speed and performance in a full-sized sedan.

[bballr4567]

For a performance flagship? $126,000 is on the lower end of the spectrum. A B7 Alpina is $135,000. ANd the S63 is $155,000-ish. I don't count the S65 because that's $210,000-ish.

Jaguar doesn't have an XJR at this stage, but an XJL SS SC is around $130,000. Of course, you can get an Ultimate at $160,000 with similar specs and far more luxury.


What this does show is the caliber and variety of competition a Cadillac Omega must face. Corvette-level speed and performance in a full-sized sedan.

Once again, does Cadillac NEED a sedan like this? How many sales does this translate into? Is it worth the investment? I doubt it at this time. In 5-7 years? Maybe.

Everybody loves to dream but a Cadillac like this should stay a dream until they get the lineup better sorted out.

[Mr. Burns]

Once again, does Cadillac NEED a sedan like this? How many sales does this translate into? Is it worth the investment? I doubt it at this time. In 5-7 years? Maybe.

Everybody loves to dream but a Cadillac like this should stay a dream until they get the lineup better sorted out.

No it doesn't. The A8 as a whole barely breaks the 500 unit mark month after month, and this S8 version certainly won't help it much. If a Cadillac Omega can double those numbers then that's what really matters.

I'm struggling to see where a car like the S8 or S63 would make sense. You can't even remotely take advantage of its capabilities on public roads. You can take it to the track, but then why would you take a full size luxury sedan to a track?

[mgescuro]

Once again, does Cadillac NEED a sedan like this? How many sales does this translate into? Is it worth the investment? I doubt it at this time. In 5-7 years? Maybe.

Everybody loves to dream but a Cadillac like this should stay a dream until they get the lineup better sorted out.

You want to be competitive and respected in the luxury market? YES.


You want to be a spreadsheet driven car brand with no reputation for making image-laden luxury cars? THen no.

Perhaps the real answer is "No" because, after all, why would anyone want to own a Cadillac?


FFS!!! Cadillac **NEEDS** cars like this!!!

[bballr4567]

Cadillac doesnt need a car like this. Its quite simple. Why divert resources into a special, special, special edition when there isnt a full size car yet?

Would it be nice if Cadillac had a car like this? Hell yes. Sadly, Cadillac needs to become a better brand before they do a vehicle like this.

FFS, keep calm and chive on.

Once again, you are sadly mistaken in why a Cadillac is a Cadillac despite your supposed image laden life.

[mgescuro]

Cadillac doesnt need a car like this. Its quite simple. Why divert resources into a special, special, special edition when there isnt a full size car yet?

Would it be nice if Cadillac had a car like this? Hell yes. Sadly, Cadillac needs to become a better brand before they do a vehicle like this.

FFS, keep calm and chive on.

Once again, you are sadly mistaken in why a Cadillac is a Cadillac despite your supposed image laden life.

FFS think it through.

Cadillac needs an Omega. No amount of arguing and bitching and spreadsheet manipulation from anyone here or at GM can change that FACT.

Now... what is the level of effort to drop a better engine... nicer seats... tighter suspension... and better features into Omega? Absolutely nothing.

That's how Audi and everyone else manages to do it!!! There is no excuse for Cadillac NOT to. Unless of course, you work for GM, and excuses are about as abundant as ants in an ant farm.

[bballr4567]

So, you just want GM to just drop in stuff and charge more for it?

Once again, what is the point of this super duper special edition of a very low sales model? Nothing. Is it going to get more buyers to get into an A8? Nope. Is it awesome for magazines to rag the crap out of it just to prove its the fastest? Do people purchase an A8 in hopes that itll be the S8 of their dreams?


As I said, GM needs a complete lineup before attempting this type of super small niche. I never said for it to not happen.

[Tone]

These cars are not about sales: they are about building the brand. The demonstrate the capabilities of their manufacturers. Certainly a car like the S8, which according to testers is not just really fast but also quite a good drive, set the tone for the rest of the line-up. Don't kid yourself, the CTS-V does a similar feat for Cadillac, but at a class down. People who care about cars would not take Cadillac as seriously as we do if the CTS-V weren't so capable. And people who don't care as much as we do, DO care about people's perception of the brand. With Cadillac, the styling and the growing performance reputation opens some doors.

That said, in the uber-class, the really impressive cars (to me) are the big Rolls and Bentley. Sure they're fast, but they are extraordinary in so many ways: speed, style, materials ... they aren't trying to be "performance cars" so much as doing everything very, very well. That's what you expect at that price class, but it would be great to see Cadillac aim that high for its flagship, even though price-wise it will likely be a class down.

[mgescuro]

So, you just want GM to just drop in stuff and charge more for it?

Once again, what is the point of this super duper special edition of a very low sales model? Nothing. Is it going to get more buyers to get into an A8? Nope. Is it awesome for magazines to rag the crap out of it just to prove its the fastest? Do people purchase an A8 in hopes that itll be the S8 of their dreams?


As I said, GM needs a complete lineup before attempting this type of super small niche. I never said for it to not happen.

It's to build the brand!! Cadillac cannot be a respected global luxury brand WITHOUT these types of cars!!
Of course it's all about the awesomeness of a magazine cover shot or fold out. Of course it's about proving which is fastest.

An S8 (or even an RS8) won't get more people into an A8... but it will make Audi a more recognizable brand! Who give a schnit if it only sells 500?



What's the point of a ZR1 Corvette? Couldn't they just make do with a standard Corvette Coupe? Why bother with a GS or Z06 as well!


Complete lineup? Cadillac will never have a "complete lineup" without a flagship -- no matter how many SUVs and CUVs Cadillac thinks they can stuff into a luxury lineup.

With Omega MUST COME a Performance variant. Now I believe it's already been said that Cadillac will have a V or a PE but not both. Personally, I think that's problematic and short-sighted.

[germeezy1]

FFS think it through.

Cadillac needs an Omega. No amount of arguing and bitching and spreadsheet manipulation from anyone here or at GM can change that FACT.

Now... what is the level of effort to drop a better engine... nicer seats... tighter suspension... and better features into Omega? Absolutely nothing.

That's how Audi and everyone else manages to do it!!! There is no excuse for Cadillac NOT to. Unless of course, you work for GM, and excuses are about as abundant as ants in an ant farm.

In a way the Omega/ ULS sedan has already been confirmed, and his point was that every manufacturer does not need to do a super large sports sedan in the vein of the S8. I would emphatically agree with that, and also remind many that BMW refused to make an M variant of the 7 series for a myriad of reasons.

So, you just want GM to just drop in stuff and charge more for it?

Once again, what is the point of this super duper special edition of a very low sales model? Nothing. Is it going to get more buyers to get into an A8? Nope. Is it awesome for magazines to rag the crap out of it just to prove its the fastest? Do people purchase an A8 in hopes that itll be the S8 of their dreams?


As I said, GM needs a complete lineup before attempting this type of super small niche. I never said for it to not happen.

I think that his commentary initially was in direct regards to the ULS/ Omega in general , and not specifically as to the need for a super sport luxury variant of it.

These cars are not about sales: they are about building the brand. The demonstrate the capabilities of their manufacturers. Certainly a car like the S8, which according to testers is not just really fast but also quite a good drive, set the tone for the rest of the line-up. Don't kid yourself, the CTS-V does a similar feat for Cadillac, but at a class down. People who care about cars would not take Cadillac as seriously as we do if the CTS-V weren't so capable. And people who don't care as much as we do, DO care about people's perception of the brand. With Cadillac, the styling and the growing performance reputation opens some doors.

That said, in the uber-class, the really impressive cars (to me) are the big Rolls and Bentley. Sure they're fast, but they are extraordinary in so many ways: speed, style, materials ... they aren't trying to be "performance cars" so much as doing everything very, very well. That's what you expect at that price class, but it would be great to see Cadillac aim that high for its flagship, even though price-wise it will likely be a class down.

Rolls Royce does not presently offer a super sports sedan variant to match Bentley with their Speed variants, and truthfully there are benefits to Rolls Royce's as well as Bentley's approach to his quandary.

It's to build the brand!! Cadillac cannot be a respected global luxury brand WITHOUT these types of cars!!
Of course it's all about the awesomeness of a magazine cover shot or fold out. Of course it's about proving which is fastest.

An S8 (or even an RS8) won't get more people into an A8... but it will make Audi a more recognizable brand! Who give a schnit if it only sells 500?



What's the point of a ZR1 Corvette? Couldn't they just make do with a standard Corvette Coupe? Why bother with a GS or Z06 as well!


Complete lineup? Cadillac will never have a "complete lineup" without a flagship -- no matter how many SUVs and CUVs Cadillac thinks they can stuff into a luxury lineup.

With Omega MUST COME a Performance variant. Now I believe it's already been said that Cadillac will have a V or a PE but not both. Personally, I think that's problematic and short-sighted.

Keep in mind if you will that Cadillac does not need a performance variant of the Omega if they have a luxury variant, and also that Audi being a global brand will have a far easier time justifying a car that will not sell in high volume in the US but is offered in many markets globally. It will simply go down to the product's intended purpose, and perhaps the ULS/ Omega will be positioned as a true luxury car not a sports luxury sedan. Cadillac up to this point has maintained the Ethos of the V sub brand, and at this point V has far more brand clarity than M. If the ULS will not be positioned as a sports luxury sedan , and it will be marketed based on it's cossetting ride as well as traditional Cadillac comfort than why sully the V sub brand?

I sincerely hope that Cadillac has higher aspirations than the Audi A8 because it is a product that in many ways falters in this class. The ULS/ Omega should have aspirations for no less than a true S class/ XJ/ 7 series competitor.

[germeezy1]

Also the Cadillac CTS-V should be considered nothing less than a rousing success, and as a testament to it's excellence is a retail value that is not utterly divergent from the BMW M5, and Mercedes E63 AMG.

[JBsZ06]

At least the new Lincoln mkz is as fast!(mks)?


Good to see this 126 grand 4600 lb beast can roll out quick acceleration. Is the S7 as fast or Audi beautiful S5?


How does. It stack up to it's German and British rivals?

Jaguar xjR ......mb e or s63 or s65?.... BMW m series 5 which is rear wheel drive?

I d still take the cts V coupe over any of the vehicles if it were my money...


It's been said there is a lot more to performance from a roll than a dig and often times that's where all wheel drive is not the end all.....otherwise why are BMW m series all rear wheel drive cars?... The ultimate driving machine from Germany chides rear wheel drive over all wheel drive for what reason?

Or is the new much heralded M 3 coming in it's next generation as all wheel drive?

[goblue]

I drive a RWD car quite regularly with very near to 400 hp, and 400 lb ft of torque. I can emphatically assure you that this car could easily handle another 100 horsepower, and that is utilizing a simply not notable in any way 255 mm width tire.

I disagree, and also have experience with cars in mid 300hp RWD range.

In this country, unless you are taking it to a track, the operating speed is 0-80 or so. Once you pull second or third, you're right, 400 to the rear wheels, or even 500 is fine - and that's on near perfect pavement on a dry day. But while you're in first, this is just too much power and is pissed away by torque management (human or computer). Throw in our awful roads, etc and even 500 in second has to be limited. We don't have an autobahn - there's no public place to rocket to 150. That's why AWD is so key, it allows full torque to the wheels in first and second gear. That's where most Americans are going to get the thrill and use the power. Further, a touch of water, or a ripple in the pavement doesn't mess anything up. Forget the benefits in real weather where RWD just doesn't compare in any meaningful way (and you know that). Also, making the tires any larger adversely affects performance in weather. Also hurts fuel economy.

I'm surprised that Germany leads us in technology that is more applicable here, than there!