NASCAR wrestles with 'stock' terminology

[327]

By Ed Hinton/The Orlando Sentinel

BRISTOL, Tenn. - Now that the Car of Tomorrow no longer can be called that, there is a terminology conundrum in covering NASCAR.

What do you call these things? What can you call these taller (by 2 inches), wider (by 4 inches), boxier vehicles with their adjustable air "splitters" in front and their adjustable rear wings?

In sports-car racing, such cars have long been called prototypes. But that would be a blatant admission by the National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing of the decades-old truth: that its race cars no longer are in the same technological universe with "stock cars."

NASCAR has begun its preferred spin cycle for the new design, of course.

"We would prefer that the car, once it races (March 25), be called Chevrolet, Dodge, Toyota (or) Ford," Jim Hunter, NASCAR's vice president of corporate communications, said during the two-day testing marathon that Thursday's rain mercifully ended.

Of course NASCAR would prefer that. So would the car manufacturers who will rent advertising space on NASCAR's uniformly designed rolling billboards.



But is it accurate? The carmakers will stick on logos such as the blue oval of Ford and the "red bow tie" of Chevrolet. But NASCAR developed, and owns, the entire car design.

Detroit and Osaka also are allowed purely cosmetic dressing of the nose and grille area to simulate the looks of street models they want to market through NASCAR.

For "brand identity," they're actually happier with the Car of Tomorrow than with current Nextel Cup cars, which look so much alike that no brand identification other than the logos meets the naked eye of the layman.

But at least with the current cars, the manufacturers' engineers get some leeway with aerodynamics in the noses and tails. The noses of the new cars all produce identical aerodynamic effects, so the cosmetics are "branding" and nothing more.

So I couldn't resist:

"Would you frown," I asked Hunter, "on the term `kit car?'"

"Yes," he said, not frowning but not smiling either.

Nextel Cup director John Darby was more pragmatic when he said, "When those cars clear inspection we put a sticker on them that says, `NASCAR race car.'"

And that's as fair a description as there is for the new design.

NASCAR cars have not, of course, been remotely "stock" for decades. Teams long have built their own engines, custom-made piece by piece, albeit on a basic block configuration designed by the manufacturers. So it's still not entirely unreasonable to say Jeff Gordon won in a "Chevrolet-powered" or Matt Kenseth in a "Ford-powered" car.

To say either won "in a Chevrolet" or "in a Ford" has been a reach for some years. Now, with the all-NASCAR design, the media and public must decide whether our arms can reach that far.

All told, never in major motor racing have I seen the margin for innovation by teams so limited as it is with this new car. And that makes the experiment vaster even than NASCAR's stated goals of safety enhancement, closer racing and cost control.

Racing without innovation is uncharted territory. We shall see how it sells.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...ines-motorrace

[Swahili]

How about NASCAR returns to requirements that companies have to build the car and engines that they use in the sport? Would add exclusivity to certain models, create a buzz, and make racing more realistic in terms of the cars. I'm sure safety concerns can be addressed in new cars too so it's not like it would be impossible. Maybe they don't reach speeds of 200mph, maybe they can only get up to 170-175mph on the long straightaways of of the big tracks, but to me, this makes more sense.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Swahili

How about NASCAR returns to requirements that companies have to build the car and engines that they use in the sport? Would add exclusivity to certain models, create a buzz, and make racing more realistic in terms of the cars. I'm sure safety concerns can be addressed in new cars too so it's not like it would be impossible. Maybe they don't reach speeds of 200mph, maybe they can only get up to 170-175mph on the long straightaways of of the big tracks, but to me, this makes more sense.

Exactly! If they are Stock Car racing, have them Race, "Stock Cars." Why does that sound retarded to lovers of NASCAR? Is it so logical, it's too logical?
I would rather watch the street versions of the Impala SS, Charger SRT-8, Fusion, and Camry racing, than a feild of the same thing, with stickers on them, which is what we have now, and will have more of. It might take a little bit for manufaturer's to catch up, but I say good. I don't care if Dodge wipes the track with the FWD phonies for a while. The Charger is the closest to it's stock, compared to the rest, except for the way it looks. The first season the Charger was racing, it had to be changed, because the aerodynamics sucked so bad. Either that, or chance the name to NAKCAR. Replacing "Stock" with "Kit"

[marinerbc]

Swahili and Uzzy, good points.

The fact though is that those that follow the sport aren't concerned with whether the rest of the public actually considers NASCAR "stock" or not. That just doesn't come up in conversation.

As for NASCAR itself, they don't seen to be concerned either, given the growth of the sport. They seem to feel that racing and concentrating on the drivers as the stars will continue to draw new fans, and keep the old ones.

I'll still watch, although like 327, I am disappointed that there is even less to differentiate the various makes come race day. And I still pull like hell for that Chevy that's always at the front of the pack, regardless of what it really is.

Some of my favourite ball players aren't who they portray themselves as, either. Life's tough.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

Swahili and Uzzy, good points.

The fact though is that those that follow the sport aren't concerned with whether the rest of the public actually considers NASCAR "stock" or not. That just doesn't come up in conversation.

As for NASCAR itself, they don't seen to be concerned either, given the growth of the sport. They seem to feel that racing and concentrating on the drivers as the stars will continue to draw new fans, and keep the old ones.

I'll still watch, although like 327, I am disappointed that there is even less to differentiate the various makes come race day. And I still pull like hell for that Chevy that's always at the front of the pack, regardless of what it really is.

Some of my favourite ball players aren't who they portray themselves as, either. Life's tough.

Well then, what is the relevance? Why have auto manufaturers involved at all? Or at least to the degree, that they are. Of course auto manufaturers will involve themselves, as with any racing league, but why call them Chargers, Impalas, Fusions, and Camrys? Ferrari isn't racing a Fiorano in F-1, but the race car could share more componentry, (and I'm certain it does) than the NASCAR shells that are covered in Fusion stickers. I say, they should move to more of an F-1 type relationship with manufaturing sponsorship, rather than pretending they are racing Stock Cars. That would help their credibility in my opinion, and could help grow their fanbase, further. I'm not against homoginization for racing, and safety purposes, but putting headlight stickers, and calling it a Camry, is just plain stupid.

(note: I hit post #327, in a thread started by 327, spoooky)

[ctaylorzl1]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I would rather watch the street versions of the Impala SS, Charger SRT-8, Fusion, and Camry racing, than a feild of the same thing, with stickers on

You would like to watch stock Impala SS's SRT-8's, race Camrys & Fuzions? They are in nowhere near the same class in anyway. You have 425hp RWD V8's against 300hp FWD V8's aginst 250hp FWD V6's. Atleast now all the cars are competitive. I do not know why everyone (most people who do not even watch or care about NASCAR) haas problems with them using the term "Stock Car"? What does it really matter? Its racing, plain & simple. Big 750hp V8's screaming around a track at crazy speeds. Why is such a big deal what they call it?

[AdmiralViscen]

NASCAR is a joke.

[marinerbc]

I agree with cytaylorzl1. Uzzy, the engines et al still come from the manufacturer; GM supplies 5.7 litre V8s for the purpose. They are Chevrolet powered, despite what people say. GM wants a piece of that, and do do the other manufacturers, otherwise they wouldn't supply the engines in the first place.

As for the name "Stock Car", it seems to be an issue only with those who don't follow the sport. I don't understand that, though. What difference can it make to them? They don't watch the races anyway.

Originally Posted by AdmiralViscen

NASCAR is a joke.

This is an example of the above, and truly adds much to the discussion.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by ctaylorzl1

You would like to watch stock Impala SS's SRT-8's, race Camrys & Fuzions? They are in nowhere near the same class in anyway. You have 425hp RWD V8's against 300hp FWD V8's aginst 250hp FWD V6's. Atleast now all the cars are competitive. I do not know why everyone (most people who do not even watch or care about NASCAR) haas problems with them using the term "Stock Car"? What does it really matter? Its racing, plain & simple. Big 750hp V8's screaming around a track at crazy speeds. Why is such a big deal what they call it?

Well the Impala is at least available with 303HP V8, but obviously, the 4 cars on the track are not in any way related to the cars they are supposed to represent. Why keep pretending? They want the name out there, it's for advertising, but seriously, why are they taking something, that has almost zero resemblance to an Impala, saying it's an Impala, then getting people to buy something that is nothing like what won on Sunday. Winning on Suday does not mean selling on Monday anymore, it hasen't for a long time.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

I agree with cytaylorzl1. Uzzy, the engines et al still come from the manufacturer; GM supplies 5.7 litre V8s for the purpose. They are Chevrolet powered, despite what people say. GM wants a piece of that, and do do the other manufacturers, otherwise they wouldn't supply the engines in the first place.

I understand that, and I supported that with my Ferrari analogy, but they do not supply the engine that goes in the Impala. They supply a race spec GM, or Chevy engine. I say stop pretending these are mid-size cars people can buy, they are not.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

I understand that, and I supported that with my Ferrari analogy, but they do not supply the engine that goes in the Impala. They supply a race spec GM, or Chevy engine. I say stop pretending these are mid-size cars people can buy, they are not.

Fair enough. So each of the 4 manufacturers should be forced to take their names off the vehicles? Is that what you mean?

Because they won't, as long as they supply engines of some kind. Especially Toyota, who went to great lenghts to:

a) build a pushrod V8, which they had never done, and likely couldn't have done without outside help;

b) enter NASCAR so that people would see them as a "wrap yourself in Old Glory" "good ol' boy bubba" American car manufacturer.

You MIGHT get GM and Ford (by embarressing them; I give the GM Robot commercial as an example) to bow out, but never Toyota. Ever. They don't back down from anybody.

[1BadPig]

They can still call it NASCAR... the "S" now stands for "STICKERS."

[HoosierRon]

Why don't GM, Ford and DCX issue an ultimatum: stock bodies and engine blocks, or we are starting a new league. NASCAR has no choice but to give in. And what does the public get? Instead of watching a bunch of kit cars with stickers, we would actually see a track full of G8s, Falcolns, Camaros, Challengers, 300Cs and a FWD V-6 Camry.

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Do you not know how to read, or just didn't actually read what I wrote?

So this is how to carry on a civilized discussion with someone who asked you a question pertaining to the topic at hand?

Ok, then I presume I am required to respond in kind, so here goes.

Were you born in a barn and still live there? Are you inbred? Can you recite the alphabet through one good belch?

Now see how that advances the discussion?

Grow up. I was on your side...until now.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

Were you born in a barn and still live there? Are you inbred? Can you recite the alphabet through one good belch?

Funny, I was going to ask you the same. I never once said that manufacuter's names should be taken off of the cars, why do you keep insisting that is my point? That's why I got bent.

Model names have become entirely irrelevant. As long as the manufacturers are supporting the race teams, and suppling parts, of course, they should still be on there. If it's got a Chevy engine, call it a chevy, but if it doesn't share a single unique component with an Impala, don't call it that.