Autoextremist on NASCAR's decline

[uboys]

http://autoextremist.com/page3.shtml#fumes

It's simple, really. What goes up must come down eventually. As I said just last week, Brian France needs to realize that nothing stays as red-hot as NASCAR has been forever. The declines in attendance and TV ratings should not be dismissed as a "little bit of a lull" but as a warning of dire things to come.

NASCAR has too many damn races, the cars have been regulated into mediocrity, manufacturer creativity and driver personality have been exorcised from the competitive equation - and the "Car of Tomorrow" will only accelerate fan apathy, not cure it. People aren't watching because the races are too damn boring, the new tracks are all the same, the old classic tracks have been deemphasized or jettisoned altogether, and the ticket prices and weekend expenses are out of reach for a lot of the hard-working people who supported the series when it wasn't the hottest thing next to NFL football.

Is he wrong?
Right?
Is his interpretation of the sslowdon in growth on the spot?

What is he not taking into consideration?

He elaborates. Click through to see.

Here is his conclusion:

If I were Brian France, I'd go spend a day with Humpy Wheeler, the president of the Charlotte (Lowe's) Motor Speedway and the smartest "Big Picture" guy in all of NASCAR. Here is what he told Nate Ryan about the effect that the death of Dale Earnhardt had on the sport: "A lot of those Earnhardt fans just aren't coming back and have lost interest. We can't forget that this has always been a middle class sport...We must continue to appeal to them with colorful personalities and the drama that has always engaged the American sports fan." Amen, Humpy - Amen.

[chakis24]

"1. Bring back manufacturer diversity. Turn back the clock and let 'em build what they want to race in your series and make sure they look as much as the cars you can buy down at your local dealer as possible. Repeat after me - bone stock body shapes. If the manufacturers have to resort to building NASCAR "specials" like the glory days of the Super Birds and the Daytonas, then so be it.
2. Do what you have to do to take the restrictor-plates off. If you have to go to 2.4-liter V8s, then do it. The racing is too predictable and too boring - and they're too damn long too. Only three races should be eligible for the magic "500 mile" length - Daytona, Talladega and Darlington. Charlotte can keep its 600-mile distance, but the rest of the races should be no more than 400 miles, and 300 would be preferable.
3. Cut the prices to go to your races. If that means everybody takes a 15 percent pay cut across the board, then do that too.
4. And finally, cut that damn schedule, bring back some of the traditional dates, and add more road races while you're at it too. At least they actually race on the road courses. This isn't 1970. You must shorten the NASCAR schedule, and you must do it asap, not in NASCAR time. To that end, I will give you a bit of inspiration to do that (see below).
5. And finally, stop promoting the "weenie" factor with your drivers. You have turned what once was a pretty wild group of characters into a sniveling gang of briefcase-sporting weasels who frankly are boring and unappealing. This painfully politically correct stuff has got to stop. Encourage the drivers to speak out, disagree and get heated if they want to - and do whatever else is necessary to allow these personalities in the garage area to surface. Promote the rivalries, because without them no one gives a damn. You need more Tony Stewarts, not fewer - a whole starting field full of 'em, as matter of fact."




here's one from me:
6) get rid of "the chase" stupidest thing ever. only 10 drivers are qualified, yet all 40 are in the races??? if it has to stay, at least have only 10 drivers participate.


all are good points BRING BACK THE OLD TONY STEWART!!!

[doh]

Originally Posted by chakis24

all are good points BRING BACK THE OLD TONY STEWART!!!

The old Tony was the closest thing to Dale SR, we had since his passing.

Willing to voice his opinion and do almost anything to win a race. But he has been told to hush up, before he learnt the poise that Dale SR had.

SR drew alot of people to the track every week, to see what would happen next, who knows maybe Tony will someday finish the race after his car has been on it's roof.

[327]

Dale earndhart JR put it right in his interview,

make all the races except the daytona 500, 300 miles long Only (170 some laps). After so many hundred laps there is no reason to have so many, by that time, All that wins is the that can hold up the longest.

ditch the restrictor plates, they arent helping when 43 cars are bunched together and cant pass each other at 199mph.

and something about the nextel cup chase, I think he said to ditch it and go with something more NHRA points style.

He even said he would be willing to have his teams make a little less a year, if they had a few less races to go to!



Last, didnt anyone comprehend what the car of tomorrow is supposed to do? apparently not even this moron got it!

The new cars ARE going to put the bodystyle back to the manufacturer, and giving back driver control


QUOTE RICHARD PETTY INTERVIEW
You're one of the few owners that have gone forward with building a Car of Tomorrow. Why is that?

Petty: We went ahead and did it just because of the safety deal. Working with NASCAR and working with Dodge, if this is going to happen, let's put our two cents worth in. We feel that by working with them, as they come up with an idea and we come up with an idea, then together they get more ideas. If you just get one idea out of the corner, then everybody else cuts them down. If everybody is involved they can't cut them down. That's why they want more teams involved in it.


But some owners say they're not going to spend the money building the cars until they get NASCAR's final product, saying it's a waste to build something only to have to tear it apart and start over?


Petty: Then they're going to complain because this wasn't done like they wanted it, or they think it needs to be done that way. So they're not really helping the process. NASCAR came out and said, "Help us with this process. We're not the only ones that's got ideas.'' Two-thirds of the ideas on these cars, probably 90 percent of the ideas, came from the crews and drivers and mechanics and NASCAR picked them up.

You talk a lot about not having as much money as some big teams. Is there a concern you're putting so much money into this now without knowing the final product?

Petty: We've already built two cars. After we built the first car they changed everything. It's an exercise good for me and my boys from the standpoint of working with NASCAR. We can throw in some ideas. There's a lot of ideas that came from us, Junior Johnson. That's really the reason they wanted people to help.
It seems like there's a lot of people that want a new car. They're pretty happy with what they've got and want to stay with it.

Does the boxier style remind you of some of the cars you drove back in the day?

Petty: It's a whole lot more like the truck deal as far as when they get together and run. The way the cars are now, they're so aerodynamic. They're great by themselves. They use air to keep them on the track. When you get in a pack of cars there's no air pushing those cars down and it's hard for them to race because the cars are skipping all around the racetrack. With the square cars, there's not a lot of wind holding the things down when you're by yourself, so when you don't have wind in a crowd it don't change the car as much. You've got to keep the competition where people can race with each other instead of just running with each other.

Some say it's not a pretty car, saying the rear wing they're looking at is getting too far from the street car. Do you agree?

Petty: You go out and watch cars go up and down the road. You never see a car with a straight spoiler like we've got. But you see from time to time little wings. It looks more stock to me than what we've got.
No, this is not a pretty car. This is not a pretty car we're running now, but we've got used to it.

How much does it cost you to build one of these cars versus today's car?


Petty: Somewhere around $80,000 to $100,000 a car. It's no different than what we've got today from that standpoint. It's still got four wheels, a chassis, roll bars and sheet metal. Just because it's shaped different don't mean it cost more to get it done.

One of the big deals is right now we've got 15 to 20 cars and once we get the new car we can't use them anymore. But the deal is, they're building new cars all the time. They're replacing these cars because they keep finding something better. So what's the difference?

Right now we've got special cars for Daytona, special cars for short tracks, special cars for intermediate tracks and road races. If they do a square car(Car of Tomorrow) , then the car will be able to run everywhere, so you won't need as many cars. I don't think that's sunk in with the majority of people. Instead of having 20 cars you can get away with 8 or 10.

Sounds like you should be the poster child for the Car of Tomorrow.

Petty: I'm sold on it because of the safety deal. I've seen all the different things they've done to the car. We went through the conversion in 1981. Up until 1980 all the cars were 115-116 inch square base. Then they went to the intermediate cars, 110-inch base cars. We went to Daytona, they didn't have an advance car. Everybody went down there, they didn't work real good. They just put more spoiler on them and they worked good and everybody accepted them.
They just made a change. They didn't have to drift into it. At that time the best teams didn't have but three or four cars. So it didn't make a lot of difference and they didn't look at it from that financial part of it. Now they look at is as we've got $2 million worth of cars sitting over here in the corner that we can't use.
But there's so many cars that they can use. ... We've got these guys hired, and they're going to do something. Whether they're working on this year's model or next year's model, we've still got the same amount of expense.

Will the Car of Tomorrow help less funded teams, including Petty Enterprises, be more competitive?

Petty: Yeah, it will. We won't need all of those cars, so the expenses wouldn't be there. If you've got to have 20 cars, most everybody thinks you've got to have 20 rear ends. If you don't have but 10, you don't have to have but 10 rear ends.
The changeover I can't see is going to cost you a whole lot because you're building new cars anyway. Two or three years down the road it's going to be cheaper because you don't need that much equipment to maintain a smaller fleet of cars.
Today's well-funded teams can win on any given Sunday, and technological advances have decreased mechanical woes dramatically. Drivers often mash the gas and turn left without repercussions, a luxury not available 30 years ago.

With today's team parity and mechanical technology, NASCAR has turned its eye toward improving competition, and some say the Car of Tomorrow will combine the best attributes of both eras.
"[It has] gotten so aerodynamic that you can't draft," said Benny Parsons, who competed full time from 1970 to 1988. "You can't slingshot by like they did 25 years ago. NASCAR realizes they have a problem. We believe that these cars can race side-by-side, lap after lap. The Car of Tomorrow is the way to go."
The Car of Tomorrow will be boxier and slower than the current model, which was introduced in 1981. The current cars are extremely sensitive to aerodynamics, often turning the race into a battle of perfection vs. track position.
"I just feel strongly that opening up a wider space of air will help the competition, help the drivers be able to pass better than they are able to now," said Ned Jarrett, who won two titles in 1961 and 1965.

[uboys]

That whole "Car of Tomorrow" thing should be scrapped. Every time you try to pin it down, people yell "But, you don't really understand it!".
What is it then?
It's still nothing like traditional stock racing.
More restrictor-plate sameness.

Are we supposed to wet our pants that they will now be allowed to make the cars "look boxier"?
Is this what will catapult NASCAR to new heights?
Do say!

Racing is not fun without the variation.
NASCAR needs that.
More variation in characters, road courses (trun right at least some times), bodystyles--something...anything.

[IROCNROL1]

Originally Posted by doh

The old Tony was the closest thing to Dale SR, we had since his passing.

Willing to voice his opinion and do almost anything to win a race. But he has been told to hush up, before he learnt the poise that Dale SR had.

SR drew alot of people to the track every week, to see what would happen next, who knows maybe Tony will someday finish the race after his car has been on it's roof.

Very true. I was a NASCAR fan from the early 80's until Earnhardt's death, although I must admit I was losing some interest from the mid 90's on. The more it was manipulated and sanitized, the more boring it got. If you look at it from a purely business standpoint, then everything they're doing at least makes some sense. They're just trying to make as much profit as possible, like any sensible business. The problem is that people want to see a race, not a well run entertainment event.

[327]

Originally Posted by uboys

That whole "Car of Tomorrow" thing should be scrapped. Every time you try to pin it down, people yell "But, you don't really understand it!".
What is it then?
It's still nothing like traditional stock racing.
More restrictor-plate sameness.

Are we supposed to wet our pants that they will now be allowed to make the cars "look boxier"?
Is this what will catapult NASCAR to new heights?
Do say!

Racing is not fun without the variation.
NASCAR needs that.
More variation in characters, road courses (trun right at least some times), bodystyles--something...anything.

You apparently havent looked at any pics of this years cars against the 2007s, or read my post. Or read any other publication about the nascar Car of tomorrow. I will not post any more pics or explain it either. Nascar hasnt ran Traditional stock cars since the 50s LOOK IT UP>

The next generation of nascar cars makes HUGE steps back towards the 80s sheetmetal stock look, when they only raced 1 style of car every track. and for 2007 they will be going for unleaded fuel, and working toward no longer needing restrictor plates for superspeedways.

[RamJet502]

Three words that would ignite NASCAR and the American auto industry

1. Camaro
2. Mustang
3. Challenger

[327]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Three words that would ignite NASCAR and the American auto industry

1. Camaro
2. Mustang
3. Challenger

have no fear padawan. They are in discussions to be entering the Busch series in 09!!! http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../60417030/1111

[darndot]

1. Each Track gets one race. Unless it is a Night and then a Day race.
2. They have to run on one dirt track.
3. They have to do one rally car path.

That would help.

[tholland]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Three words that would ignite NASCAR and the American auto industry

1. Camaro
2. Mustang
3. Challenger

And have them all look like a cereal box on wheels? No thanks. The problem for me is the name plate doesn't mean anything with standardized bodies... it's just a different graphics package.

[uboys]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Three words that would ignite NASCAR and the American auto industry

1. Camaro
2. Mustang
3. Challenger

Not if they look anything like the "Car of Tomorrow" they won't.
Only true stock racing will really ingite the passion. No plastic shells.

Originally Posted by tholland

And have them all look like a cereal box on wheels? No thanks. The problem for me is the name plate doesn't mean anything with standardized bodies... it's just a different graphics package.

Now, now...
Don't go making sense at all.

It is beyond me why NASCAR regulars just swallow the party line hook, line and sinker.
Sock car racing was exciting because it was stock car racing--"50 years ago" or not.

Standardization is the death of racing. When the drivers are muted and the races formulaic...
I can't even keep up with the sponsors anymore. Is there a Cingular Cup too? What's the difference between Busch and Nextel?

It's okay to question conventional wisdom you know...

[uboys]

Here is a lively discussion oin on at NBC. Most people agree with Autoextremist:

http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/th...hreadID=125468

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by tholland

And have them all look like a cereal box on wheels? No thanks. The problem for me is the name plate doesn't mean anything with standardized bodies... it's just a different graphics package.

No, I am talking about production versions racing each other. They are going to need a standardized race engine and drivetrain setup, but otherwise throw in some safety equipment and send them out on the track.

[327]

[quote=uboys]Not if they look anything like the "Car of Tomorrow" they won't.
Only true stock racing will really ingite the passion. No plastic shells.

Are you completely retarded? Do you even know how to read? I will post the pictures for the illiterate people


2006-previous Generation nascar FUSION Monte carlo( style started in 88)


2007 Ford Fusion nascar, IE the Car of tomorrow Generation.









Try thinking before posting your BS, and getting facts straight. They do now and will continue to Use oem sheetmetal parts. More 2007 as proven by my pictures.

Look up words like Template: tell me where you see that they will be using the same car body on every car. For the car of tomorrow generation?

STARTING IN 1988, EVERY TEAM/ MANUFACTURER USED 3 BODIES PER CAR. THEY HELPED AERODYNAMICS AT THE 3 different styles of race track that nascar uses. IN 2007 they will be using 1 body per car FOR EVERY TRACK( Strangely enough, exactly how nascar was back in the heyday 60s-80s, and what almost all of you morons complain about wanting today). HOW HARD IS THAT TO UNDERSTAND??? along with testing to no longer run restricers and using unleaded fuel. Hell look at the pictures!