Rumor Mill: Decision on GMC and/or Pontiac Coming in August

[FoMoCo Fan]

It's not about the product. It's about the marketing marketing marketing. GM cannot afford to spend the kind of marketing dollars necessary to support all of these brands. You can sell great products, (Saturn) but if you can't afford to market them (Saturn) no one will buy them (Saturn).

[TJ95GAGT]

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

I really don't see why killing either GMC or Pontiac or even both would be beneficial to GM. Having them increases their market share and also reduces the costs of sharing platforms and other components. As much as I like Saturns, I feel that they are redundent to Chevy. Pontiac has atleast the chance to go RWD and be different than Chevy. I also see Saturn as just exporting Opels so there is no new design or other costs needed, only shipping them across the pond. The same goes for Pontiac, only costs would be a new front/back clip and shipping them to the US. Costs should be relatively low. GMC are just better engineered Chevy's. The costs should be low as well. Does anyone have any reason why costs would be higher for these three brands? I'm just not seeing it.

I'm don't see it either. GMC and Pontiac are the #2 and 3 sellers for GM with the little marketing and development dollars they currently get. They can probably engineer several model years of cars for both brands for what it would cost to shut them down except they wouldn't immediately lose the marketshare.

I also don't understand the whole CAFE argument with Pontiac. The G8 V6 isn't THAT much worse than the V6 Malibu in the MPG departement. Surely a smaller Alpha G6 ( or whatever they want to call it) would do better than the G8, especially if they applied a BAS system to it. The G8 seems large enough to a version of the 2mode system.

Further more, what would GM's friends the CAW and UAW have to say about closing plants after brands are closed? They don't just go away. I just see money needing to be spent that they don't have, moreso then it costs them to develop a Pontiac/GMC version of existing cars/trucks.

[FierySolstice]

Originally Posted by TJ95GAGT

I'm don't see it either. GMC and Pontiac are the #2 and 3 sellers for GM with the little marketing and development dollars they currently get. They can probably engineer several model years of cars for both brands for what it would cost to shut them down except they wouldn't immediately lose the marketshare.

I also don't understand the whole CAFE argument with Pontiac. The G8 V6 isn't THAT much worse than the V6 Malibu. Surely a smaller Alpha G6 ( or whatever they want to call it) would do better than the G8, especially if they applied a BAS system to it. The G8 seems large enough to a version of the 2mode system.

I totally agree. Also, do the foreign brands, ie BMW, Audi, Mercedes have to go by CAFE too or is this just for domestics? If they can get better mpg with RWD, why can't Pontiac?

[MisterMe]

Originally Posted by FireFox89

This is stupid, as each one is like a artery to pbg, you either kill pbg or not. Neither saturn or chevy can absorb pontiac or gmcs sales as gmc and pontiac are 2&3 on gms sales charts. ...

I could not agree more. People here carry-on as though GM is forced to give away Pontiacs with an oil change when the exact opposite is true. Pontiac is second only to Chevrolet among GM passenger cars. In 2007, it outsold Buick and Cadillac combined or better yet, Saturn and Cadillac combined. GMC moved even more metal.

If you want to kill something, you don't go after your No. 2 and No. 3 brands. If GM were a horse race, then GMC and Pontiac both finished in the money. You would not send your moneymakers to the glue factory to make room for those that pulled up the rear.

[zabolots]

Unless bankruptcy is an option on the table that would allow them to bypass the state franchise laws, I just don't see how they'd be able to kill off a division. They simply don't have the cash to buyout the franchises.

I do think, however, that you'll see quite a bit fewer models in each brand. Pontiac may only have 2-3 cars (Solstice variants, G6 replacement and probably something smaller thanks to CAFE, though I'd rather have a lighter G8 replacement in lieu of a sub-G6 offering). I honestly don't know how to continue with GMC since they're all available down the road with a Chevy badge, but they'll have to do something to avoid killing it altogether and suffering the lawsuits from dealers.

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by Markld74

GM AT 12PM EASTERN TIME TODAY, HAD A SATELLITE MEETING WITH ALL ITS BPG DEALERS IN WHICH THEY TALKED ABOUT BPG MARKETING AND MOVING FORWARD, THEY ALSO TALKED ABOUT UPCOMING PRODUCT FOR PONTIAC AND BUICK (2010 LACROSSE, 2009 SOLSTICE COUPE, 200? G8 ST, SIERRA HYBRID AND REFRESH CHANGES FOR G6). Looks like BPG is in the plan for the future, well at least the BP part.

The Buick is shared with a Chinese product, so the volume is there. Those Pontiacs are already locked in, so its also no surprise that they'd say they will go forward. Kind of like Ford talking about future Mercury product, the question is whether GM decides to kill Pontiac in 2012 when more significant model changeovers would be likely to occur.

[Pontiacwheels]

Personally, I am not seeing how cutting a bunch of divisions is going to help GM. They are cash starved and cutting divisions would just alienate customers and cost a ton of money. That said, something needs to be done with Hummer, but what?

It made sense to kill Olds because all of their customers were like 80 years old and getting older each year. But what's the average age of the Pontiac and GMC buyer?

[Lichtronamo]

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

I totally agree. Also, do the foreign brands, ie BMW, Audi, Mercedes have to go by CAFE too or is this just for domestics? If they can get better mpg with RWD, why can't Pontiac?

All manufactures in the US market must meet CAFE. However, selling a 3-series from the mid-30s to mid 40s means that BMW has plenty of profit margin with which to absorb the penalties if the CAFE target is missed. Harder for GM to with Pontiacs priced in the $20K-to $30K range.

[377Z]

Holy underwear!

[windvale]

Originally Posted by Markld74

GM AT 12PM EASTERN TIME TODAY, HAD A SATELLITE MEETING WITH ALL ITS BPG DEALERS IN WHICH THEY TALKED ABOUT BPG MARKETING AND MOVING FORWARD, THEY ALSO TALKED ABOUT UPCOMING PRODUCT FOR PONTIAC AND BUICK (2010 LACROSSE, 2009 SOLSTICE COUPE, 200? G8 ST, SIERRA HYBRID AND REFRESH CHANGES FOR G6). Looks like BPG is in the plan for the future, well at least the BP part.

Trade papers are more talking about Saturn going GOODBYE along with Saab and Hummer. Seems the heat is off BPG. (Thank GOD GM maybe targeting the sinkhold brands of S, S & H).

Didn't they tell that plant up in Canada that they were good to go a couple of months before they closed 'em down ?

[windvale]

Originally Posted by MisterMe

I could not agree more. People here carry-on as though GM is forced to give away Pontiacs with an oil change when the exact opposite is true. Pontiac is second only to Chevrolet among GM passenger cars.

Yeah, but the majority of Ponitac sales are the G6 and G5. These are rebadges. GM is having to divide their scarce advertising dollars to promote both the G6 and the Malibu, the G5 and the Cobalt.

GM is essentially paying twice as much to advertise each car, which is killing them in the market place.

[skylark68]

Current Saturn lineup basically equals what Oldsmobile would be selling right now if still operational. All GM did was reposition Saturn into Oldsmobile's slot in the GM hierarchy.

Saturn needs to be redefined into what they were originally supposed to be = low price import fighter.

Astra - SC1 and SC2
Aura - SL1 and SL2
Sky - Halo vehicle
Vue (if deemed necessary)

That's it. Outlook needs to go.

Pontiac and GMC make money for GM.

[GMFAN85]

It would make little sense to kill off Saturn right after GM pumps billions of dollars into revitalizing the brand and essentially merging it with Opel/Vauxhall. On top of that, killing off a brand that has more fuel-efficient cars and SUVs then Pontiac/GMC/Buick would really hurt GM's CAFE numbers.

If they decided to do this, we can count out the next Aura/Astra from making it to our shores since the Cobalt and Malibu already fill the bill for the Chevy brand and Pontiac is allegedly going all RWD. Buick is too upscale for the Opel cars. For GM to spend billions of dollars on the next gen Aura and Astra to meet US/Canada crash standards and then not even bring it would be a huge waste of money.

I'm still placing my bets on GMC/Hummer getting the ax. They currently bring nothing to GM that benefits the company and the dealership networks for both are small enough or already combined with other brands that it wouldn't cost GM an arm and a leg to shut them down, a la oldsmobile.

[dederer]

If GM gets rid of pontiac and GMC that leaves buick with one cuv and two vehicles to sell. That probally isn't enough to sustain a dealership.

[mkirk]

Let's get real...cut Saab-no one cares. Hummer was a novelty and now the new is worn off...the gas prices have knocked it in the head. To kill Pontiac or GMC would alienate many more loyal GM customers than losing Olds ever did. Focus the brands more and make the rebadging really give customers a new offering.

Have you seen the new Solstice coupe, GMC Denali pickup(also hybrid), and the"wow" all new Lacrosse??? If they are planning on closing any of these lines-it would be a suprise to say the least. Thin out the Yukon herd (you just won't sell as many)-but if you have 3-4 kids or need to tow-(a Prius won't do it unless you like to get out and push)-there is no substitute for one of these vehicles until someone(hopefully GM) pulls it out of the skunkworks and let's us buy the all new hybrid diesel anti-grav tesla black box whatever.