GM killing dreams of El Camino return?
Published October 28, 2013
FoxNews.com
The El Camino has reached the end of the road, again.
Long gone from U.S. roads, the idea of a car/pickup hybrid has lived on in Australia where they are known as utes and have become as stereotypically Australian as a shrimp jumping off an Outback barbie into Paul Hogan’s mouth.
General Motors’ entry in the segment is the Holden Ute, a rear-wheel-drive two-door that rides on the same platform as the Chevrolet SS and Caprice police car sold in the United States and wears a nameplate that dates back more than 60 years.
All the above is correct. There's a fair backlog of Cruze Hatch at the moment. It's been that way for about 3 months. Cruze Equipe is hard work, but then again no one is really asking for them, so it's not a big issue.
There was a lot of Diesel Cruze's around, but they did a Demo program to clear those. The next big problem is Cruze Wagon.... but that's another story.
Heaps of SS and SV6 Ute stock. They're just not selling at all. You still get the odd person after an SSV or a Redline Ute, but not like it used to be, even 12 months ago when VE was essentially in runout you used to get more Ute enquiry, it's just dried up completely.
Fleets are still buying Wagons ( SV6, SS, SSV is very tough), but getting a private customer on a Wagon isn't easy, unless they're a diehard Holden fan!
The Sedans are all selling relatively well, except for base SS. The SSV just represents so much better value for the money. Redline Sedan's have really slowed up.
Thanks for this.
What's wrong with the Cruze wagon - just no small wagon desire in the market? Or something with the car that changes Intenders minds when they try them?
My company has just picked up a few Cruze Equip diesel wagons.
Yes, the BT50 looks to me like it a snail that was sat on, but it is a strong seller in the segment - actually a twin-under-the-skin to the Ford Ranger.
Base Colorado starts at about $5-6K less than base Ute, you can get several 4WD models including a space cab. When all that VE Zeta work was killed off in 2005, you lost the AWD versions of VE - Sportwagon was meant to continue Adventra - plus the crewcab version which was a consistent seller. The Denalli XT concept I suspect was a reworking of the VE Holden Cross 8, the 4WD crewcab.
c. 2005 VZ Another thing Opel never did with GM2800. These things didn't sell in enormous numbers, but they were very exxy and good coin. I think they sold about 5K crew cabs the final year of the old chassis and they were a popular thing, mainly because you could get V6/V8 and AWD.
There's always been a strong V8 ute market, Holden decided to concentrate on it.
Isn't the base level Colorado cheaper than the base Ute in Australia? That would shift a lot of the business or fleet buyers away from the Ute.
Just discovered the Mazda BT50 while doing some searching. And I thought the Tundra is ugly truck. I feel bad for the people of Australia that have to look upon such a thing.
Official? I can't see there EVER being an official announcement on what you're NOT offering. Why would you? One could always change their mind. The practicalities could change making a Ute more desireable by more buyers. Why limit yourselves by officially announcing a "NO"? You can say, "Not right now", but that's about it.
So is there any immediate plan to export Commodore as SS Pick Up?
Opportunity Cost.
The point is that there are lots of things Holden could do if they wanted or if there was a buck in it
but every time you spend "X" on an export plan, that leaves you even less to spend on local vehicles.
In September, Holden dealers registered an awful lot of superseded VEs, that pushed up the "sales" numbers.
i wonder what sort of pull forward Holden will see this month with roll on from those sales delayed to this month.
Edit,
BB, Just saw your post back on page 3, thanks for info which I repeat here:
Holden aren't making SS according to Phil Brook because SS buyers are buying SS-Vs due to drop in price. They know this from average age. I mentioned the 250 unallocated SS wagons TH wrote about and he said that's all they're likely to build this year - they took the opportunity to build some stock. They just built out second shipment of Chev SS to follow the first 900 sent to US.
Fleets are the major Evoke, Sportwagon customers and utes are small business part-private and those buyers bought up big on VE runout, and are only now returning to the market. So Ute sales could be slow for a while. The good news is, private buyers (who are buying SV6, Calais, Calais-V and SS-V/Redline) are up 60% on same time last year. Everything they're making is virtually to order at present.
Holden's production schedule is still catching up with Cruze, let alone Commodore. Cruze hatch is long wait if you can't find one at a dealer especially SRi, but even Equip. If you want Calais-V or SS-V and especially Redline you are still going to be waiting minimum six weeks unless you can find a built unsold car somewhere. Holden are saying really rich mix of buyers, mostly retail.
Sale of local production are going to fluctuate based on demand.
Also thanks for chiming in Th, both of you have cleared up a lot of questions regarding
where Holden is with Cruze and Commodore model production.
I can understand that product mix selections are so important, getting the right mix of vehicles
means the difference between plenty of walk in sales and a very expensive parking lot (base FG XR6 circa 2010)
Not quite. Here in Australia small business thrives on the petrol 2wd versions for couriers and small concerns, mostly fours. Trades nearly universally use AWD diesel versions. Toyoa, Ford and Mitsu offer non-diesels in this segment. Everyone else is diesel only.
There's a major development of units (condos) I drive past every morning. 60-70% of the work vehicles are Hiliux, Ranger, Colorado, Dmax or similar. There are a few high-end Ford and Holden XR6/SS Utes , but they are usually driven by the boss or individual workers. The rest are diesel 3-tonne trays or larger carrying ditchwitches, posthole diggers or front end loaders.
The Hilux is the Ford F-series of this country. Until midway through this year it was contesting best-selling vehicle with small cars.
All the new utes, Colorado, Ranger, BT50 are unique and new platforms - not related to older units. Colorado was global, Ranger was developed in Australia. The older entrants like Navara (Frontier) and Hilux (Tacoma) have most in common with SUVs. F-series, Silverados, Rams are not king outside the US and have little relevance.
...and, you forgot (who could forget?) the Dodge/Plymouth "utility coupe" twins, the Dodge RAMPAGE and Plymouth SCAMP? Heck, I believe they even had a 1.7L VW diesel engine available!
The more I think about it, the more I want a sports car that has a decent level of utility. I'd love a Sportwagon or Ute with a stick.
Both would certainly serve me well as my trunk is practically a tool box currently. Would solve my arguement for a more versatile vehicle or sports car. Oh well, lets see what options are in Spring of next year for me.
Why do you think this thread is about moving people out of the trucks? A Ute would primarily appeal to those that don't want a truck, and small numbers at that.
You've identified one of the problems. Many people erroneously think the Ute would be here to replace the truck. NOT AT ALL. As you say I don't want a full size truck and will never buy one new. I want a Ute. It would compliment the truck market here, not replace it. Funny how full size truck owners don't want a Ute and can't even imagine it but can't seem to see that it works the other way as well. Different strokes for different folks.
I personally would use a Ute to replace my pickup truck. I rarely use a truck as a truck, so to have a "truck" that shares more of it's chassis & driving dynamics with that of a car, then I see it as having the best of both worlds. Plus, with a lower chassis than a fullsize truck, loading anything into the bed would be easier.
And you bring up another point that we have discussed before I believe. A Ute won't replace the extended and quad cab trucks or any 4X4 for that matter. It may replace the few owners of RCSB 2wd trucks. And that market is shrinking to nothingness. So why not try to get a few more owners like ourselves into a Ute? I think we know the answer, GM doesn't want that market as it is a lower average transaction price margin for them. They'd rather sell loaded to the gills crew cab 4X4's for $50K plus as these are GM's cash cow.
I think a Holden Ute being sold in America as a new Chevrolet El Camino would be awesome. I'm a musician with a big amp to haul to shows and I'm getting back into biking and if I could at all avoid having to attach a bike rack to my car I'd appreciate it greatly. High-riding pickup trucks just aren't cool to me and I can't seem to find a Subaru Baja with less than 100,000 miles around here. Not only that, but it would be a very unique vehicle in an industry that's pretty much down to just sedans, SUVs/crossovers, pickups, and the occasional domestic hatchback.
One thing, though-in order for it to work for me as main vehicle (I only have funds for one car), it'd have to have some sort of 3rd occupant option, like a bench seat with a folding armrest. I sometimes give rides to a couple friends at a time and a two-seater's obviously out of the question. Sure, that means a gear shifter on the steering column, but that wouldn't bother me since I'm one of the few automotive enthusiasts who prefers automatics (I'm too lazy/uncoordinated to shift gears myself, and there are a ton of hills where I live). I know the bulk of gearheads like manuals but there have been cars in the past with steering column-mounted stick shifters so why couldn't they do one today?
Great to here another fan interested in the Ute here.
I'd love to see a 3 seater bench with column shift option as well, but unfortunately that will not happen. Holden would have to offer it in their Commodore lineup and they have no intention of doing so unfortunately. I'd ask you though. If the Ute was here with only 2 bucket seats would you still purchase if the pricing was right?
I could imagine the frenzy if the B-body line were continued with the LS1. Mmmmm....Impala with the LSX454 crate engine. :dro: And the possibility of the Caprice spawning a revived El Camino. I would have one right this minute if it had happened.
As for the Ute & it's fate, you hit the nail on the head. Even if a business case could have been made before the previous Colorado was ended, the GM brass would have looked at no true 4WD as a negative. They want those plans to include one nameplate to be available in as many configurations in order to appeal to as many potential buyers as possible. The Ute is one size fits.....those who want one. I'd give GM a pass on jilting us with no Ute, but it would require a Colorado or Canyon that is a pavement punisher. An exclusive engine, regular cab only, & it would probably have to offer big diameter wheels with grippy low profile tires. Hell, I'd even give them a pass if they offer a hot reg. cab Silverado or Sierra like the Cheyenne concept that they will show at SEMA. Otherwise, I've got a platform to work with right now.
Actually, I've been kicking this idea around for a bit, so you can run this by the brass at LA. GM NA could sell the Ute as built to order (just like the SS sedan) under the GMC brand. Why you ask? GMC's ATP is a bit higher & it's no longer a shock to see a GMC that sells for $40+K. Even at $50K, it would be a GMC halo vehicle much like the Corvette. In fact, I have seen an article back in the late '70s in which a Corvette & an El Camino were compared head-to-head. So, if done properly, it can be a performance halo vehicle. The only precedence we have to go on is the Syclone. Back in 1991 when a Sonoma 2wd reg. cab with the V6 ran $14-15K, the Syclone had an MSRP of $30K. They did only sell in the range of 5K over 2 years, but it built a cult following that I'm sure is still rewarding GM with repeat customers. I wouldn't be surprised that some Syclone owners would buy a GMC Ute under the scenario I described.
Actually, I've been kicking this idea around for a bit, so you can run this by the brass at LA. GM NA could sell the Ute as built to order (just like the SS sedan) under the GMC brand. Why you ask? GMC's ATP is a bit higher & it's no longer a shock to see a GMC that sells for $40+K. Even at $50K, it would be a GMC halo vehicle much like the Corvette. In fact, I have seen an article back in the late '70s in which a Corvette & an El Camino were compared head-to-head. So, if done properly, it can be a performance halo vehicle. The only precedence we have to go on is the Syclone. Back in 1991 when a Sonoma 2wd reg. cab with the V6 ran $14-15K, the Syclone had an MSRP of $30K. They did only sell in the range of 5K over 2 years, but it built a cult following that I'm sure is still rewarding GM with repeat customers. I wouldn't be surprised that some Syclone owners would buy a GMC Ute under the scenario I described.
The problem I see with that is GMC's customer base is very different than the kind of person that would buy the Ute. I couldn't imagine seeing a Ute on a construction site or them trying to advertise a vehicle better suited to burnouts and light duty hauling as "professional grade". The Syclone may have been a bruiser, for sure, but at the end on the day it was more of a Sonoma on steroids.
The best business case I can think of for bringing over the Ute or building a new El Camino is that the cancellation of the G8 ST was massive disappointment for the automotive world and it would give GM a considerable amount of consumer goodwill, but that's not really a business case...so yeah....
I was trying to find a video on YouTube that had a white extended cab S10 with a pumped up older 4.3. It was a test for a possible crate engine (ZZ4.3). It was rated for 275 HP (without the VVT/DI of the Gen 5) & 290 lb.-ft. That's stronger than the 4.8 V8.
Yeah, I actually remembered that, but the 4.8 is almost becoming a footnote in the history of the Gen 3 & 4 engines. And, I could make it a fair fight again by saying that the ZZ4.3 concept was more powerful than a non-VVT 4.8.
I think GM could sell just as many Utes SS as Sedan SS here a year at the EXACT same price point with the same options. In fact, considering its uniqueness I wouldn't at all be surprised if a Ute SS OUTSOLD the SS sedan on a yearly basis as the sedan market is as crowded as it gets and the Ute market is WIDE OPEN!!!
My Dad bought a new 79 EC and gave it to my Son in '05. It wasn't very pretty then. We applied a very mild custom to it with fiberglass bumper replacements and black powder coated most of the chrome - but we left the bed surround chrome. We painted the three color earth tone a dark blue after removing the dents and converted the kinda copper interior to gray and black. My son loved driving the EC and more than once people asked, "What kind of car is that?!" This was asked a couple of times in Home Depot parking lots when I was with him. My Dad saw the finished EC and the pride my son took in driving it before he passed. Despite the fact that we would rather have spent the money on a Camaro, after seeing my Dad's face, I knew we had done the right thing for everyone.
I am in no way a truck guy but I always admired the El Caminos. If GM is serious about reviving this nameplate they shoul visit SoCal for abiut 10 mins. The classic Els are everywhere out here. I think a new version would sell.
Late to the party...........unless GM intends to ship a few near the end of the current model's run as loaded limited run models, it's a dead topic.
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