G.M. and Chrysler Explore Merger

[mike's 01ws6]

Originally Posted by tollytime

LOL!! I reported this 6 months ago!! Chrysler and GM merged with Cerberus by guilt of association. This already happened!! I don't care if don't they share platforms or technology, the owner is the same!! Wake up!!! OMG!! This is so funny!! When both companies are owned by one financial arm, that's a merger kids!! Here's proof that the business world controls the media!!!
Next??? The leverage buyout of Ford!!! LOL!! The American public will be judged as idiots with I-Pods stuck up their as%$s a hundred years from now!!!

Cerebrus DOES NOT own GM, they own part of GMAC.

[roberto57]

Originally Posted by tollytime

LOL!! I reported this 6 months ago!! Chrysler and GM merged with Cerberus by guilt of association. This already happened!! I don't care if don't they share platforms or technology, the owner is the same!! Wake up!!! OMG!! This is so funny!! When both companies are owned by one financial arm, that's a merger kids!! Here's proof that the business world controls the media!!!
Next??? The leverage buyout of Ford!!! LOL!! The American public will be judged as idiots with I-Pods stuck up their as%$s a hundred years from now!!!

mike's 01ws6 is right, Cerberus owns a 51% stake in GMAC, but does not in any way own GM. Get the facts right before you make an ass out of yourself.

[Tony_the_Tiger]

-
- THIS IS A JOKE _ RIGHT ?

On the other hand, I could use my GM discount to buy a Dakota from the new GM&C........

~

[OldsReliable]

At least GM would be the world's largest manufacturer or cars. That counts for something, right?

Also, I like the Silveram and the Imapala300 as well as the Sebibu. How about a Patriot(uppercase)3, or the legendary Chalero? And don't forget the new G-harger. Yeah.... starting to make more and more sense, right?

Incidentally, GM could use the extra cash to revive Oldsmobile. That is truely what the market needs.

[1931Chevy]

IMO if we where under other circumstances that GM was in a better cash position I would say go for it but when GM its having trouble to keep its own lights on because they are burning cash faster than pee going down the toilet I dont see how anyone at GM could be thinking about this. With Chrysler, GM would sink faster than the Titanic because Chrysler has close to 60 billion in debt and with GM debt it would be to huge and GM right now can keep 8 brands running and how are they planning to feed 3 more unless they are working so Chrysler can get their 25 billion loan and GM too and then merge so that way in can have a 50 billion cushion I really dont know but if GM bites I think in 3 years they will be filling to Chapter 11

[CadiEldo67]

So what if GM took Chrysler in exchange for GMAC and then sold Chrysler? They lose GMAC and ditch Chrysler for a profit?

Plan B in my book involves keeping the companies separate. Chrysler need not replace Buick in my plan. GM cuts Saturn, GMC, sells Saab, Hummer. Chevy is one channel, Buick/Pontiac another, and Cadillac. Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep is another channel.

Shared Platforms include:
Delta II
Epsilon II
Sigma II
Zeta
LX
Lambda
GMT-900

Engines Shared include
Phoenix V6
Ecotec
HF V6
LS stays at GM
Hemi could go as Northstar replacement, or stay with Chrysler only.

[mikesright]

Originally Posted by 1931Chevy

IMO if we where under other circumstances that GM was in a better cash position I would say go for it but when GM its having trouble to keep its own lights on because they are burning cash faster than pee going down the toilet I dont see how anyone at GM could be thinking about this. With Chrysler, GM would sink faster than the Titanic because Chrysler has close to 60 billion in debt and with GM debt it would be to huge and GM right now can keep 8 brands running and how are they planning to feed 3 more unless they are working so Chrysler can get their 25 billion loan and GM too and then merge so that way in can have a 50 billion cushion I really dont know but if GM bites I think in 3 years they will be filling to Chapter 11

GM would not be considering merging with Chrysler if the cash pile would burn a bit because of this. As I said before, GM would probably be able to take Chrysler's entire cash pile of $11 billion in the deal. Also Chrysler does not have $60 billion in debt, GM itself only has $32B in debt and it is crushing enough. Chrysler is smaller and would have been passed on by cerberus originally if it had carried that amount of debt.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by vam29

Now it makes sense why Chrysler has supposedly been trying to buy back the 18% that Mercedes still owns. It would certainly block any deal with GM. Maybe Mercedes might even kick in a $5-10 billion loan to divest itself of it's share and gain public opinion here in the US. The synergies and cost savings of a GM/C combination would certainly be tremendous. In response to an above comment, my guess as to the smartest dealer combination would be: All GM Brands under one roof in separate locations from any other products, called GM period. Same for Chrysler.

You are headed in the right direction with this.

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GMAC has exactly how much value now - and utility over the next 5 years - starting like, right this second ?

This is probably one of the sticky wickets on this - and then the follow up question - how much and what 'form' cash to GM - if any.

Given whats happened to GMAC's market , and the same for GM and Chrysler, it outpoints Nissan / Renault going with Chrysler for both GM and Chrysler.

Cerebus with 100% of GMAC could also become within this a 'special' consideration financing source for GM /Chrysler vehicle financing.

***********************************************

Handled properly, this would actually be the best possible match up for both Chrysler and GM.

I'm all for exploration with the idea of really trying to make it work - it could end up the most brilliant move in the industry.

The details are what will make or break that.

None of the brands have to go or much less even should .

# of brand channels and number of dealerships is a different story - both firms were on their way with that and this merging would not require any changes on that per se although the economy could require some smallish modification.

Its also an excellent fit on a worldwide basis.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by Tony_the_Tiger

-
- THIS IS A JOKE _ RIGHT ?

On the other hand, I could use my GM discount to buy a Dakota from the new GM&C........

~

No, Fox news is reporting that the plan is that GM will sell the remaining part of GMAC to Cerberus (which is worth nothing... actually less then that) and in exchange GM gets Chrysler's manufacturing and dealership agreements (which are also worth less then nothing). These talks have been underway for MONTHS... they are not just starting, they are nearing conclusion.

On the Pros this will help GM get rid of the rest (all actually) of GMAC liability which is the ticking time bomb that could kill the company.

On the Cons... everything wrong with GM, too many dealers, too much product over lap, no focus on small cars, too many truck, UAW pains, too much debt, wacho marketing, zero sales, F'ed up Management structure.... Brain Dead CEO, etc .etc .etc will remain.

Both sides are betting on a bigger piece of the Government bailout pie... GM now gets Chryslers share of the 25/50 Billion and Cerberus will take GMAC's huge upside down sub prime and ARM mortgages and get in line for the 700/840 Billion...

I suspect that this will create some excitment around GM stock and might get it back to the 6's... But the fundimental problems with GM's balance sheet remains...

IMO for GM this is like the WWII German battle of the budge... The German Generals knew they were done and going to lose.. So they put all of their eggs in one basket in a desperate attempt to delay the inevitable and hope that the pain would force the allies into peace talks... Like this plan, it didn't work.

[Tstag]

It may not be a total disaster if done right. Jeep/ Chrysler and even Dodge would gain access to the GM European dealer network, although quality would need to improve significantly. Jeep would slot in nicely in European dealers, but Chrysler and Dodge would need to find their niches.

I still hate the idea to be honest.

[AMERICA 123]

The best analogies are not even being mentioned anywhere on this thread.

You want a military one that also captures the economic flavor we have coming ?

No question, this is most similar to when the UK and the USA got together to form the grand alliance and defeat the 'superior' Japanese and Germans.

Both were getting their ass kicked all around the planet at the time of the Alliance.

Don't like that one ?

Fine, then use the USA and USSR story.... - to defeat the 'superior' Japanese and Germans.

That's the key phrase - " got together to defeat the 'superior' Japanese and the EU Germans.

Want peacetime analogies ?

Go look at what happened in the USA Auto industry between 1929 and 1933.

And another one.

Go look at what JAPAN Inc. forced together in their own industry in the 1960s and how that one turned out.

Toyota and Nissan would not be here today the same way they are without that.

************************************************** ******

One of the things I really enjoy about this is Toyota and most likely Honda cannot possible 'merge match it'.

[slowinthefastlane]

At least GM will get a competitive minivan.

Since Chrysler bought out AMC, they probably still have the rights to all of their old trademarks. This means that GM could bring back the PACER!

[FierySolstice]

This makes no sense. We keep saying that GM needs to cut some of the brands it already has, so in the end they take on 3 more? And 3 more that compete directly with the ones it already has. GM vehicles are so much better than what Chrysler has to offer. The only good part of this would be that GM would get Jeep. Would it be possible for GM to buy only Jeep? Dodge and Chrysler should just be sold to another company. Merging will just not work.

[AMcA]

Insanity.

GM needs more brands?

No, GM needs Chapter 11. Blow out the deadwood and start over.

Except how would they finance it in these crazy days?

[fan]

This can be good.
On sure good thing is that it would allow huge cost savings through technology sharing.
Another thing that may be critical is dealer network handling. As it is now, GM's dealer network would be enough to allow selling Chrysler group brands. All Chrysler dealers could merge with GM dealers, with various pairings of brands.
I don't see why this couldn't be convenient for Chrysler dealers.
Supose you have a GM dealer and a Chrysler dealer next to eachother -this would be very common since both have full network dealers . Both pay rent for space, two staffs and so on. They could give up one space, both shareholders would get the same revenue, except that costs could be halved.