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Aluminum, sporty, RWD, Ford Falcon And Lincoln? Ford Insiders Get In Here!

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#1 · (Edited)
#66 ·
I have no idea about the aluminum part, but yes, Ford is creating a RWD sports sedan for Lincoln based on the Mustang platform. Pretty sure I posted it here already, and at least 1 Ford person mentioned it in the press.

As for a Ford derivative, although Ford hasn't said anything about it, it's a given that Ford will have a version as well. Ford will need volume ( hedging their bet if Lincoln doesn't turn around) to spread out the investment......Ford isn't about to take the same gamble with their Lincoln RWD sports sedan that GM made with the Cadillac-only Sigma. Expect the Ford version to be marketed as a premium car in NA Ford showrooms (above Fusion) and exported to Australia.

New MKC, which is supposed to be the first car of the "new" Lincoln (yes, I thought the MKZ was too) is due next year.... and last word is the RWD Lincoln sedan's scheduled the following year.

I see Ford innovating an awful lot, where's Chevrolet, or GM?!
I wouldn't count them out yet.

A Ford Falcon-affordable compact RWD sedan would sell very well, IMO
Chevy needs a Chevelle or Nova version
If my understanding is correct, you're thinking more along the lines of what Chrysler plans with the upcoming Avenger replacement, which will be more "affordable" in the way I suspect you're thinking.

Using the Falcon name is a good way of disguising that it is a Lincoln. Four complete vehicles have definitely gone between ChongQing and Melbourne supposedly for brake tesing/evaluation which seems a bit strange when they could do that here. I suspect it is a Lincoln coming here for some testing. The only other thing that makes sense is that the prototypes for the new Falcon were made in ChongQing.
Sorry...no, no Falcons have "definitely" gone to Chongqing, or anyplace in China. The story of cars going between China and Australia was only an internet rumor. Ford did have parts of the next Falcon shipped in from China....next Falcon as in final, about to be introduced, made in Australia versions....not a post-Australian Falcon.

Neither GM nor Ford do platform development work in China.

Chongqing is an assembly plant.

Any engineering facility Ford is developing in China is to adapt global platforms to the China market, and as a OEM supplier to other Ford assembly plants in Asia.
 
#68 ·
I have no idea about the aluminum part, but yes, Ford is creating a RWD sports sedan for Lincoln based on the Mustang platform. Pretty sure I posted it here already, and at least 1 Ford person mentioned it in the press.

As for a Ford derivative, although Ford hasn't said anything about it, it's a given that Ford will have a version as well. Ford will need volume ( hedging their bet if Lincoln doesn't turn around) to spread out the investment......Ford isn't about to take the same gamble with their Lincoln RWD sports sedan that GM made with the Cadillac-only Sigma. Expect the Ford version to be marketed as a premium car in NA Ford showrooms (above Fusion) and exported to Australia.

New MKC, which is supposed to be the first car of the "new" Lincoln (yes, I thought the MKZ was too) is due next year.... and last word is the RWD Lincoln sedan's scheduled the following year.



I wouldn't count them out yet.



If my understanding is correct, you're thinking more along the lines of what Chrysler plans with the upcoming Avenger replacement, which will be more "affordable" in the way I suspect you're thinking.



Sorry...no, no Falcons have "definitely" gone to Chongqing, or anyplace in China. The story of cars going between China and Australia was only an internet rumor. Ford did have parts of the next Falcon shipped in from China....next Falcon as in final, about to be introduced, made in Australia versions....not a post-Australian Falcon.

Neither GM nor Ford do platform development work in China.

Chongqing is an assembly plant.

Any engineering facility Ford is developing in China is to adapt global platforms to the China market, and as a OEM supplier to other Ford assembly plants in Asia.

Where did Ford mention it in the press?
 
#67 · (Edited)
guionM said:
...New MKC, which is supposed to be the first car of the "new" Lincoln (yes, I thought the MKZ was too) is due next year.... and last word is the RWD Lincoln sedan's scheduled the following year...
-- per Ford Fleet Distribution News Bulletin from a while back, the MKC has a Job1 of April 21
so should arrive at dealers by the end of this June.
-- despite a recent rumor about the nextgen MKX, I expect it to go on sale Jan/Feb 2015.
-- also due for 2015cy is the MKS-replacement: shown at NAIAS, on sale before the end of the year.
-- Non-insiders don't know when the LincStang will be out (or shown) but the best-informed opinion I've seen indicates around the beginning of 2016cy.

further confusion is what some firmly believe is a small-maybe-C-segment car that was just teased in a video
AND that the MKS-replacement might be Rwd (as well as called Continental)
so
the LincStang and C-car can be confused due to size
and the LincStang & Conti due to drivetrain

...LINCOLN: the 2nd-most fascinating Brand in the World
 
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#82 ·
MKZ, MKT, MKS, MKX.....I'm going to start referring to them as the big sedan, the small sedan, the crossover, etc....(can you tell why I'm not a fan of their model designations?!)

The big sedan redesign was what I was referring to, which the RWD sedan is tentatively planned for the year following it.

Where did Ford mention it in the press?
No company makes announcements of specific upcoming models in the press until they're about to come out. Consider we all know the next gen Camaro is coming out and will be based on Alpha.......now go find where GM itself actually said it in the press.

spyman3 who posts on fordaustralia forums and is the source of the spy photos going around of the new falcon begs to differ. he says he has documentary proof that four vehicles have been shipped from ChongQing to Melbourne. Ford deny they are Falcon but to my knowledge no one has asked them whether they are Lincolns. i have asked him to persue this but whther he does or not is up to him.
I think that Ford use a test track at China but I don't know much about it and spyman confirms its existance.

This is what spyman posted on www.fordaustraliaforums.com and his track record is excelent.
"Hey
well ford today has confirmed that there has been cars shipped to and from china for "ABS testing and or calibrating"

ive been watching them test the braking systems here for 25 years now so why would you air freight complete cars over to china

and ive had someone close to ford confirm my paperwork as being the proving ground in china they use

anyway pics out tomorrow in goauto.com.au"

Thanks MisterMe -have fixed.
Anyone can "say" they have documentary proof, but unless they're going to provide it or at the very least, say what that "document" is, take it with a grain of salt. And even those with an excellent track record can easily get it wrong once in awhile. But assuming he did see something, it's pretty certain that it's not a future Ford based Lincoln/Falcon that was engineered in China.

First, Ford has no test track, private test facilities, or technical center in China unless it's not listed on the list of their global facilities. If they have the facility in Brazil listed, then the list I'm using is very complete........ Next, I know that many of the next gen Falcon's parts are going to be sourced from China. Also, the Falcon was not engineering protected for left hand drive, so that would eliminate the possibility of moving production there for that market. Also, Ford is making no investment in updating the Falcon platform beyond what's planned for the upcoming final versions.

There are many other far more likely possibilities assuming for a moment the shipping story is true.

* China is an OEM for the next Falcon, so it would stand to reason that they would need actual cars to work with.

* Ford of Australia is still the region's design and concept car center. Possible a few Ford China manufactured cars were shipped down to Australia to be reworked into concepts or to serve as the platform or jump off point for redesign work.

* Car was shipped to China from here in the US for market evaluation, then shipped to Australia.

* They were simply current Chinese made current Ford cars being shipped to Australia to be run at Ford's test track down there in Australia at Yous Yang.

But the most unlikely of all possibilities, and the one that goes against probability the most, is that Ford of China created a new RWD platform, and it's being secretly shipped to Australia...... that most certainly isn't the case.

GM has all the necessary technology to make lighter and faster cars. They have invested NanoSteel, magnesium sheet metal, aluminum panel welding, and carbon fiber thermoplastics.

Yet somehow it's Ford who plan to radically reduce the weight of their cars by 20-30% by 2020, while GM only plans a 15% weight reduction - when they're already 15% heavier than most cometition.
Sure the technology and R&D is there, but the challenge is to make it cost effective.

Yes I agree with you but what are they? There aren't too many medium/large cars in the Ford system that are known for them to be so they could be a totally new one -hence my conjecture that they may indeed be Lincolns.
Most likely next gen Tauruses. They are due next year.
 
#74 ·
...My point is that they are not falcons (which is what he has been told by Ford insiders) - so what are they? As I have asked Spyman03 - are they Lincolns. They have to be something! He has said that the documents suggest that they were in China for validation rather than coming here for validation.
well, I went over to FAF (I'm a member from back in Orion days)
but it's hard for me to think of spyman's pix as other than FH Falcons
altho
-- Lincoln IS opening up dealers in China THIS year and maybe
-- some kind of testing for ride/drive characteristics (& pieces) could apply to coming Lincolns
I really don't expect the entire platform or sub-assemblies to continue on
&
DO expect the Rwd Lincolns to fall into smaller (just over 3/4-series) & larger (Continental/swb-S-class) sizes,
at least for the rest of this decade.
 
#76 ·
yes you are right. The photos are Falcon but the four cars referred to definitely aren't so they must be something else. What that something else is I don't know but it could be Lincoln or even a different US Ford product. We need the insiders to either tell us or give us hints. I am trying to find out through some of my contacts but they aren't dealing with Ford so they may come up blank.
 
#79 ·
get used to this as it is happening more often. The newer cars have systems where the ECU checks the serial number of components like the instrument cluster and if they don't match the vehicle is immobilised. I guess that even extends to the individual light assemblies with the Landy. I can do without such gizzmos in my car. I am more convinced that the Fairmont will keep getting rebuilt until it can't be any longer.
 
#83 ·
Funny I just posted on this, and I come across the same question answered in an article:

"GoAuto has seen what appears to be an air-freight document for a large car – and possibly four – from Chongqing in China to a freight-forwarding company at Melbourne’s Tullamarine airport.

Chongqing, a huge industrial city on the Yangtze River in western China, is the heart of car manufacturing operations for Ford of China, its partner Changan and their suppliers in the world’s largest auto market.

However, Ford Australia brand communications manager Neil McDonald told GoAuto that no whole Falcon cars had been shipped between China and Australia for Ford.

“Our Falcon prototype vehicles were all assembled in Broadmeadows with parts sourced from many markets, including China,” he said.

“We haven’t shipped any Falcons to China. Parts would have been shipped, but no cars.”"
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/7B5C35EB9AC30A76CA257C60000476E6

So the same thing I posted is now also print..... Separate Ford sources, same conclusion.
 
#85 ·
Funny I just posted on this, and I come across the same question answered in an article:



http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/7B5C35EB9AC30A76CA257C60000476E6

So the same thing I posted is now also print..... Separate Ford sources, same conclusion.
I don't have a single problem with what you say. You are arguing with yourself. he has a track record and to me you haven't one yet but may have in the future. Spyman3 has credibility -it is HIS photos in Goautos and he has shown them the documents. He has other photos as well that he hasn't released in entirety but has shown snippets of on other sites ie one of the the grilles . As I said Go-Auto has seen his documents and they must be something - my point was that they COULD be Lincoln (as they DEFINITELY weren't Falcon) not that they ARE Lincoln. I don't see why he should feel it necessary to plaster the documents across the internet either as it may adversely affect his contacts. I certainly wouldn't bother asking him for copies either.
Of course they could be new Taurus vehicles but they might be a completely new model as you alluded to. Also no one said that Ford had a test track in China but there are test tracks in China not owned by Ford - Chang'an (a partner of Ford) happens to have one in ChongQing! My isn't that a co-incidence eh?

From Chinamotorworld.
Chang'an test site is equipped with various test tracks, including domestic unique dry/wet manipulation road and 200 km/h highest-speed lane. It also has more than 20 types of domestic comprehensive evaluation roads and a 300-meter diameter dynamic square, which is the largest in China.
 
#93 · (Edited)
[ broken record ]
for the littlest Lincolns, I like the idea of 2 specialty cars:
a pair of LincStangs for sport (sportsedan & coupecabrio)
and
based on the Grand C-Max's longer wheelbase:
 
#97 · (Edited)
Personally l like the latest generation of sporty fire breathing hybrids that are starting to come through they are so environmentally friendly already, they break all the future green rule books & legislation thats coming in ten years time for micro mini cars.





Lincoln have only just discovered RWD and aluminium as well this is starting to get really serous. My God they moving at warp drive speed at Ford these days. Good to see Lincoln are getting serious about doing cars now, so much better than the Ford Fusion specials. Lincoln Go baby go l will be routing for you, l hope to see both Cadillac & Lincoln conquer the world luxury car market one day.
 
#98 ·
Personally l like the latest generation of sporty fire breathing hybrids that are starting to come through they are so environmentally friendly already, they break all the future green rule books & legislation thats coming in ten years time for micro mini cars.

Lincoln have only just discovered RWD and aluminium as well this is starting to get really serous. My God they moving at warp drive speed at Ford these days. Good to see Lincoln are getting serious about doing cars now, so much better than the Ford Fusion specials. Lincoln Go baby go l will be routing for you, l hope to see both Cadillac & Lincoln conquer the world luxury car market one day.
Porsche 918 spyder and Mclaren P1 cost around 1 million dollar each. There is no way Cadillac or Lincoln will get this kind of supercar in their lineup anytime soon.
 
#100 ·
I have (several good) reasons to believe that this exists, though as I heard it these cars weren't "compact", but rather midsize. I believe that it will be built at Flat Rock, that the Lincoln might be the next-gen MKS (rather than a new model; this is unclear), and that the Ford sedan is intended for Australia (where Ford is closing its longtime factory) but could be sold elsewhere.

There is an interesting implication to doing this at Flat Rock (where presumably the plan is to build them on the Mustang's line, not the Fusion's). Building aluminum-bodied vehicles requires different tooling and processes vs steel. Do they build a separate body shop at Flat Rock for these cars, or does the Mustang go all-aluminum too?
 
#103 ·
A very recent reference to this topic was posted on a Ford-centered site, and was shortly thereafter pulled down. It appears as though the poster, and not the topic, was the "problem", as all content from the poster is no longer there. "Sensitive issues"? The reference was made in response to the recent internet notion that the S550 Mustang has, in fact, gained weight as opposed to losing it, as promised, and the reason was essentially that a version of the S550 platform would underpin a Lincoln 4-dr variant, therefore requiring greater inherent structural integrity.

Although a Lincoln version, in aluminum, might not suffer the same weight issues, the Mustang's entry-level pricing @ $23K doesn't afford for substantial aluminum structure, and therefore aluminum weight-savings.
:thumbup:'s

can't wait to find out!!
tho
imho a LincStang sportsedan will have to be quite different from a Coupe(cabrio) that wouldn't require much more than a 4" stretch & reskin

&
shouldn't it be a rule to save all posts from people who might tend to disappear??
then
RE-Post them!!!
 
#102 ·
A very recent reference to this topic was posted on a Ford-centered site, and was shortly thereafter pulled down. It appears as though the poster, and not the topic, was the "problem", as all content from the poster is no longer there. "Sensitive issues"? The reference was made in response to the recent internet notion that the S550 Mustang has, in fact, gained weight as opposed to losing it, as promised, and the reason was essentially that a version of the S550 platform would underpin a Lincoln 4-dr variant, therefore requiring greater inherent structural integrity.

Although a Lincoln version, in aluminum, might not suffer the same weight issues, the Mustang's entry-level pricing @ $23K doesn't afford for substantial aluminum structure, and therefore aluminum weight-savings.
 
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