2011 Challenger to get 6.4L and other goodies

[PA Dweller]

I guess the 2011 Challenger will not offer the 8 speed automatic like some though.

[skylark68]

Does this mean the R/T will get the 6.1? haha. I know I'm dreaming.

[PAULSTS1]

There had been speculation that the Challenger might has gotten the excellent 7 speed automatic manufactured by Daimler-Benz. However in light of the breakdown of the supplier relations between Chrysler and DB, that avenue appears closed. FIAT, at this time doesn't offer any automatics more advanced than Chrysler's existing 5 speed so it must do, with only engine upgrades and the manual 6 speed soldiering on as the ultra performance derivative.

Engine options are the 6.4L for the SRT8, and the FIAT Multi-Air for the R/T, but both engines will obtain a considerable mileage/performance increase.

Here is the link: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/03/r...e-to-chrysler/

[jry]

Go to Coach Builders and see what it looks like in a rag top!

[Danko]

Okay, expert Paul, where do you get off saying the R/T is more than fast enough? You try to sound like you know what you are talking about. Why? Forums are good to learn from. That is why I ask about info on the 6.4 and hope someone that actually knows something can post that info. Skylark should not be dreaming to think the R/T should get the 6.1. Afterall, it costs thousands more than the SS with their 6.2.

[MN12Fan]

Aside from the top end what other plans are there for the Challenger? When's the car supposed to get that Pentastar 3.6L V6? And will the base model ever get a manual transmission?

[avro206]

More power is always good, even if it's a Mustang or Challenger.

I expect about 470hp max. I can't see how they can get more then that with 2 valves per cylinder. Look at Chevys 7.0 LS7--505hp. Still even at 470hp it should pick up a fair bit

[Prince Valiant]

Originally Posted by avro206

I expect about 470hp max. I can't see how they can get more then that with 2 valves per cylinder. Look at Chevys 7.0 LS7--505hp. Still even at 470hp it should pick up a fair bit

And this expectation is based on what? A different engine?

Shouldn't, based on your apparent reasoning then, the original genIII 5.7 hemi only have made ~310hp since the original genI LS1 of a comparable size was rated for 310hp too?

Basing your expectations of HP on the Hemi based on what the chevy makes is...well, laughable.

fwiw, there are versions of the 6.4 available now for the aftermarket...there may or may not be revisions to them for production use, but currently the two versions for sale are rated as follows:

Fuel Injected = 515hp
carbed = 540hp.

At this point, from perhaps the most reliable source allpar.com uses, he's saying to expect nearly 500hp, but won't commit to 500hp being the goal. So we'll see.

But 500hp out of the 6.4 isn't unrealistic...one reason we know is that they are already doing it. True, there will be some changes for production engine w/ MDS...but based on the 6.4 producing a specific torque range of 440-450ft-lbs of torque @ peak (this is simply an extrapolation of the torque increase expected based on the 420ft-lbs the 6.1 produces), the 6.4 would need to spin ~ 6800rpm based on if it's producing 85% of peak torque at peak HP reading...a fairly typical finding. Given that the 505hp of the LS engine with it's longer stroke has a 7,000rpm redline, it's reasonable to think the smaller Hemi can spin that high and then some safely.

It's simply speculation, but it's certainly better than basing it off what another but very different (and disadvantaged, quite frankly) engine produces.

oh, and number of valves means squat...it's about the head flow numbers, not valve numbers, that's important.

[Speedjerk]

Originally Posted by Danko

Skylark should not be dreaming to think the R/T should get the 6.1. Afterall, it costs thousands more than the SS with their 6.2.

You meant 5.7?

[ResumeSpeed]

Originally Posted by Prince Valiant

...there will be some changes for production engine w/ MDS...

In addition to the 6.4 w/MDS (for auto trans), there will be a 6.4 variant without MDS (for manual trans).

[Stéphane Dumas]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

There had been speculation that the Challenger might has gotten the excellent 7 speed automatic manufactured by Daimler-Benz. However in light of the breakdown of the supplier relations between Chrysler and DB, that avenue appears closed.

I wonder if Chrysler-Fiat might study the possibility to do a joint-venture with another automaker to build some 8-speed auto transmission just like GM did with Ford for their 6-speed auto trans for FWD vehicules?

[avro206]

Originally Posted by Prince Valiant

And this expectation is based on what? A different engine?

Shouldn't, based on your apparent reasoning then, the original genIII 5.7 hemi only have made ~310hp since the original genI LS1 of a comparable size was rated for 310hp too?

Basing your expectations of HP on the Hemi based on what the chevy makes is...well, laughable.

fwiw, there are versions of the 6.4 available now for the aftermarket...there may or may not be revisions to them for production use, but currently the two versions for sale are rated as follows:

Fuel Injected = 515hp
carbed = 540hp.

At this point, from perhaps the most reliable source allpar.com uses, he's saying to expect nearly 500hp, but won't commit to 500hp being the goal. So we'll see.



It's simply speculation, but it's certainly better than basing it off what another but very different (and disadvantaged, quite frankly) engine produces.

oh, and number of valves means squat...it's about the head flow numbers, not valve numbers, that's important.

Wow I did not think I was laughable.

I am not comparing older 5.7L Hemis to LS1s. If you know ANYTHING about the gen 3 5.7L LS1 F body cars, you know that the rated HP was low balled by GM. Alot of people were getting about 300hp AT THE WHEELS. So really the 340hp and 305-310hp 5.7L LS1 are really, very close in actual numbers.

Head flow numbers are critical of course. But as you know a 2 valve head is still limited compared to a 4 valve head. So yes, for real high rpm breathing 2 valves cannot match 4.

I was just using the 7.0 LS7 as a benchmark. GMs LS series heads are awesome, the LS7 is in a high state of tune from the factory. I cannot think of another 2 valve, NA car that is rated so high. The fact that this pushrod engine is redlined at 7000rpm is amazing.

Of course the 6.4L crate engine can make over 500hp---I am just skeptical because they do not have to meet the same requirements for mass produced, emissions regulated, regular production passenger car engines. Apples to oranges here--lets drop the crate engine debate.

If the 6.4L Hemi--about 10% less displacement can break 500hp I will be even more impressed. I just don't think it's likely.

[DJ Red Barron]

Originally Posted by Danko

Okay, expert Paul, where do you get off saying the R/T is more than fast enough? You try to sound like you know what you are talking about. Why? Forums are good to learn from. That is why I ask about info on the 6.4 and hope someone that actually knows something can post that info. Skylark should not be dreaming to think the R/T should get the 6.1. Afterall, it costs thousands more than the SS with their 6.2.

While I won't claim it to be fact, rumors have been floating around that the 6.1 would be a replacement to the 5.7 once the 6.4 is transitioned into the full SRT8 lineup. Will it happen? I don't know for sure. It would be really cool if so. We'll just have to wait and see.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

There had been speculation that the Challenger might has gotten the excellent 7 speed automatic manufactured by Daimler-Benz. However in light of the breakdown of the supplier relations between Chrysler and DB, that avenue appears closed. FIAT, at this time doesn't offer any automatics more advanced than Chrysler's existing 5 speed so it must do, with only engine upgrades and the manual 6 speed soldiering on as the ultra performance derivative.

Engine options are the 6.4L for the SRT8, and the FIAT Multi-Air for the R/T, but both engines will obtain a considerable mileage/performance increase.

Here is the link: http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/03/r...e-to-chrysler/

I guess Chrysler doesn't have a more advanced transmission coming out in that time either?

[adaptabl]

The problem is that Chrysler will have a tough time keeping it's doors open past 2010. They have no new product and an old fleet that can only be sold with deep discounts. It even looks like FIAT is getting ready to carve them up if things keep going bad by seperating the truck division from the cars.