Track Tested: 2010 Lincoln MKS EcoBoost

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Panthers_4ever

According to Motortrend the MKTaurus weights 4277 lb and the Town car weights 4345.3 lb , so that makes the MKTaurus a cow too .

Originally Posted by Xenon

Hyundai Genesis.

Good points. Does either the Genesis OR the Town Car offer AWD? Or a glass roof? Those two items ALONE result in a massive weight and mileage penalty.

Originally Posted by Xenon

You missed a couple
A6 3.0T 18/26
BMW 535xi 16/25

The A6 matches the fuel economy of the GS while being very close (if not the same) to the speed of the gilded Taurus. And wasn't Ford boasting that ECOboost does better than Audi's solution?

So we've established that the MKS can't be bested by more than 1 mpg by any V6 competitor, while either matching or exceeding their speed, while offering much more room, AND being less expensive?

Sounds like a good sale to me. Thanks guys.

[SullyND]

Originally Posted by OLDSCHOOLGMFAN

And it's unique as the only transverse V8 FWD FoMoCo car ever.

Huh?

[cough]SHO[/cough]

[Extreme4x4]

Originally Posted by Xenon

You missed a couple
A6 3.0T 18/26
BMW 535xi 16/25

The A6 matches the fuel economy of the GS while being very close (if not the same) to the speed of the gilded Taurus. And wasn't Ford boasting that ECOboost does better than Audi's solution?

The AWD standard V6 MKS gets 16/23.

The Cadillac DTS 275hp V8 FWD gets 15/23
The Chrysler 300 V6 AWD gets 17/23
The Chrysler 300 V6 RWD gets 17/25
The Audi A6 300hp AWD gets 18/26
The Audi A6 350hp V8 gets 16/23
The Audi A8 350hp V8 gets 16/23
The BMW 535xi 300hp gets 16/24
The BMW 550i 360hp RWD gets 15/22

The Audi A6 is considered a large/midsize car, the MKS is a large car and is larger. The midsize A6 gets worse fuel economy than the MKS, with similar horsepower.

0-60 is about 7.6 seconds with the V6, and 6.5 with the V8. The MKS is about 5.6 seconds 0-60.

[Barry Badrinath]

Can anyone tell me if anything is going to be done RE: the brakes? I have now read several accounts where these have become an issue during a test. I don't buy the baloney argument that "well, it's a test, they're unusually hard on the brakes", so save it.

Honest question. You heard anything Wes?

[AdmiralViscen]

If you want to look squarely at the benefits of ecoBoost then you should be comparing the MKS EB to the MKS 3.7 AWD. That shows the benefit of ecoboost, and it shows why it's called eco and why it is called boost.

If you want to do a broader comparison test with other similar vehicles then you will find that the MKS EB once again compares favorably.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Barry Badrinath

Can anyone tell me if anything is going to be done RE: the brakes? I have now read several accounts where these have become an issue during a test. I don't buy the baloney argument that "well, it's a test, they're unusually hard on the brakes", so save it.

Honest question. You heard anything Wes?

So you're shocked that after THREE 100+mph to zero slams of the pedal in a 4,000 lbs+ sedan whose brakes are already well worn from a few months of hard testing, all within a ten minute period, the brakes get burnt up?

The MKS (and SHO, for that matter) does not have brakes designed for a race track setting. They're designed for, when on the Long Island Expressway in NYC stop and go traffic, to go from 0-60 and 60-0, in a smooth and consistent fashion, without generating too much brake dust that gets your nice chrome wheels filthy.

Bottom like, MKS customers do not race their cars in a competition setting, so Lincoln had other priorities when designing the brakes.

As for a remedy... you'll probably see a more meaningful performance package coming in a MY or two, to tighten up both the SHO and MKS before they get redesigned.

[Barry Badrinath]

Originally Posted by wescoent

So you're shocked that after THREE 100+mph to zero slams of the pedal in a 4,000 lbs+ sedan whose brakes are already well worn from a few months of hard testing, all within a ten minute period, the brakes get burnt up?

The MKS (and SHO, for that matter) does not have brakes designed for a race track setting. They're designed for, when on the Long Island Expressway in NYC stop and go traffic, to go from 0-60 and 60-0, in a smooth and consistent fashion, without generating too much brake dust that gets your nice chrome wheels filthy.

Bottom like, MKS customers do not race their cars in a competition setting, so Lincoln had other priorities when designing the brakes.

As for a remedy... you'll probably see a more meaningful performance package coming in a MY or two, to tighten up both the SHO and MKS before they get redesigned.

Actually, I am a little surprised. I haven't read any reviews of the current CTS having any braking issues in any testing. I'd assume that's the same testing the MKS/SHO have gone through. In fact, I've read nothing but great reviews about it's brakes. If you've read differently, point'em out and I go look. No problem...

With the way most a******* drive in the NE corridor, I like knowing my car stops from 60mph in 112'. Never owned a car that could do it. The 3er next to it in the garage can't do it. It's also over 4,150lbs after I get in it, AWD, has the paroramic sunroof, and the rims don't get dirty either.

I'd like to know this car can too. It's a nice car Wes. Ford has really been putting good stuff out the past 2 years. This strikes me as a glaring omission.

Goodness knows GM's done enough of that themselves.


BB

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Barry Badrinath

Actually, I am a little surprised. I haven't read any reviews of the current CTS having any braking issues in any testing. I'd assume that's the same testing the MKS/SHO have gone through. In fact, I've read nothing but great reviews about it's brakes. If you've read differently, point'em out and I go look. No problem...

With the way most a******* drive in the NE corridor, I like knowing my car stops from 60mph in 112'. Never owned a car that could do it. The 3er next to it in the garage can't do it. It's also over 4,000lbs before I get in it, AWD, and the rims don't get dirty either.

I'd like to know this car can too. It's a nice car Wes. Ford has really been putting good stuff out the past 2 years. This strikes me as a glaring omission.

Goodness knows GM's done enough of that themselves.


BB

It can happily do a pedal-mash 60-0 and 0-60 all day long... but 100+mph to 0 is another story altogether, and adds a considerable strain on the brakes than 60-0 does not, so I really don't see how it's a glaring omission that Lincoln doesn't expect their owners to do THREE flat-out 0-100 then 100-0 runs within 10 minutes on a regular basis.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by wescoent

It can happily do a pedal-mash 60-0 and 0-60 all day long... but 100+mph to 0 is another story altogether, and adds a considerable strain on the brakes than 60-0 does not, so I really don't see how it's a glaring omission that Lincoln doesn't expect their owners to do THREE flat-out 0-100 then 100-0 runs within 10 minutes on a regular basis.

And yet Edmunds stress the fact as if it would be a normal occurrence to every owner, which would lead the unexpected reader to think that this car doesn't have the brakes it needs . . . .

[Barry Badrinath]

Originally Posted by wescoent

It can happily do a pedal-mash 60-0 and 0-60 all day long... but 100+mph to 0 is another story altogether, and adds a considerable strain on the brakes than 60-0 does not, so I really don't see how it's a glaring omission that Lincoln doesn't expect their owners to do THREE flat-out 0-100 then 100-0 runs within 10 minutes on a regular basis.

The statement reads as though only the MKS/SHO had to do 100-0 and other cars do not. Though I do not like to assume, it would be my belief that all cars would go through the same testing, perhaps tailored by class/category. So that would mean there are other cars that have done the same test, that did not have the driver stop using the car for safety reasons.

I have not read where BMW/MB/Audi/Caddy had the same issue. I have listened to all of the flaws and defects the CTS has/supposed to have because they do not compare to the competition. For $56M (IIRC), it has the same competition, and it should do better.

Anecdotally, I would not be excited to see someone riding my ass in an Ecoboosted MKS, when I just merged onto I-95N from US-1 just before the NJ-295, 95/495 weave/split in Delaware. Speeds average over 80 and 0 pretty much simultaneously, due to all the ramjets going from far left to far right (6 lanes) at the last second, trying to get 295 to go to NJ/NY. what makes it worse is that my exit (just after) is a left exit. I do this at least 2x a month.

I'd like to see Lincoln continue to do better. Good enough just isn't at that price.

EDIT: You know what, it 6, 6 lanes at that junction. Ahh, ahh, ahh, I love to count!

[Barry Badrinath]

Originally Posted by Simon says

And yet Edmunds stress the fact as if it would be a normal occurrence to every owner, which would lead the unexpected reader to think that this car doesn't have the brakes it needs . . . .

It's funny reading you two act like other GMI'er who feel GM can do no wrong.

Edmunds is not the only place to question the brakes. Some of the initial reviews (I cannot recall which ones, sorry) were done right at release, with low/no mileage cars. They indicated the same problems.

Take a step back guys and realize I am asking a legitimate question. Regardless if the brakes are "good enough" they fail a CR style review. Lot's of people look at cars that way. Lincoln, like GM, still has a percetion problem. It sticks out.

[Barry Badrinath]

You know what, I've got my answer. They're good "enough". Everything's great, it's all fine now. Thanks for all the help.



Hey Simon, my FIL has 2 of those 50's T-bird's in a garage. One's in not so great shape. I always give him a hard time saying I like the "parts car" better... He just retorts something about my lack of taste due to owning GM's.

Like I said, it's all good.

[Ach]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Sure, a stripper E550 costs $56,000, but a comparably equipped E550 costs about $72,000 with all the features the MKS has at $56,000, and it's still not as roomy OR fuel efficient.

However, it will do better on a road-racing track, if that's your bag.

It might do better but it wouldn't be much fun. Non-AMG E-Classes are pretty floaty and numb (compared to 5 series and A6) in my experience.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Barry Badrinath

It's funny reading you two act like other GMI'er who feel GM can do no wrong.

Edmunds is not the only place to question the brakes. Some of the initial reviews (I cannot recall which ones, sorry) were done right at release, with low/no mileage cars. They indicated the same problems.

Take a step back guys and realize I am asking a legitimate question. Regardless if the brakes are "good enough" they fail a CR style review. Lot's of people look at cars that way. Lincoln, like GM, still has a percetion problem. It sticks out.

Well, that is the bottom line... right now, the brakes are good enough for normal usage. I can promise you that Ford/Lincoln would not put on brakes that were a genuine safety hazard, even in extreme settings (I know exactly the exchange you're talking about).

This test was likely a combination of using a badly-worn testing car, as well as the severe strain put on in a short period of time. When I drove the regular MKS, I did perform two 75mph to zero pedal mashes back to back, and although the brakes did fade a little, they didn't fade enough to shake my confidence in them. For Edmunds to speak so poorly of them says to me they probably didn't have fresh pads on the car.

That being said... obviously, the brakes are not as good as those on other midsized sports sedans, so Lincoln does have some improvements required for the upcoming refresh.

[Barry Badrinath]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Well, that is the bottom line... right now, the brakes are good enough for normal usage. I can promise you that Ford/Lincoln would not put on brakes that were a genuine safety hazard, even in extreme settings (I know exactly the exchange you're talking about).

This test was likely a combination of using a badly-worn testing car, as well as the severe strain put on in a short period of time. When I drove the regular MKS, I did perform two 75mph to zero pedal mashes back to back, and although the brakes did fade a little, they didn't fade enough to shake my confidence in them. For Edmunds to speak so poorly of them says to me they probably didn't have fresh pads on the car.

That being said... obviously, the brakes are not as good as those on other midsized sports sedans, so Lincoln does have some improvements required for the upcoming refresh.

I was never trying to imply that the brakes were insufficient for daily use. Sorry if it was taken that way. I think we agree that for class/cost, it's something that some potential buyers will note.

Thanks for the thoughts dude.